Skyrim

This is the reason you play TES games on PC.

I didn't really find it that funny, but I can see how others might.  I see a lot more potential for hilarity than this though!  Especially with the shouts!  I can think of a lot of humorous replacements for them.

Why is this game not cheaper so I can buy it?

The Stormcloaks openly engage the Thalmor whenever they encounter them.

In Skyrim.

"Out of the public eye"? Oh, that's sure good to know.

Yes, because of the peace treaty. Are you not following?

Blaming the Victim 101. If you're not grotesquely ignorant about what went on around Markarth in the aftermath of the war, you know that the Stormcloaks only exist because that condition was being enforced. You cannot claim them to be the aggressors in this conflict; their actions are primarily defensive, taken to preserve their homeland and way of life. The Thalmor are in Skyrim now because the Imperials permit them to be there - do you seriously deny this?

They are the aggressors because they were the ones declaring the war against the Empire, and Skyrim isn't their homeland to preserve - it's been a part of the Empire for ages. And need I remind you that it was originally the Nords who drove the Aldmer out their homeland? You could even say that the Thalmor rightfully want their land back - which is exactly what the Stormcloaks are arguing for, as well. Except that the Aldmer are the original residents of Skyrim, not the Nords. I don't personally support Thalmor motives, but I might ask you anyway, why is it that you believe the Nords are any more deserving of Skyrim than the Aldmer?

And yes, the Empire let Thalmor in Skyrim because denying them would be denying peace. That wouldn't even have been a problem if not for Ulfric's actions.

Except the Imperials allow the Thalmor to traipse through their territory, freely torturing and executing citizens at whim. Say what you will about Jarl Ulfric, but he doesn't tolerate that.

He does seem to tolerate the oppression of non-Nord races.

Oh, right...I almost forgot about that big, impressive war the Empire is conducting expertly "behind the scenes". 

Once again, you fail to grasp the concept of temporary peace conditions. Yes, the Empire will inevitably fight the Thalmor, but for now they settle for guerrilla warfare.

Right, the Stormcloaks prefer war to slavery and always will. I would agree that is indeed the main difference between them and the Empire.

Right - I guess not granting the same basic rights to other races isn't slavery. And how exactly are the Empire slaving Nords, again?

You've managed to fulfill Godwin's Law and Hitler isn't even a part of the same canon. Well done.

Pulling the Godwin's Law card isn't any better than pulling the Hitler card, especially when the allusions drawn to the Nazi regime are legitimate.

I don't happen to believe that fighting to preserve the rights of your fellow countrymen against a thoroughly corrupt and oppressive foreign authority is a "shit idea". That is where you and I differ.

That's funny, I think so as well. Except that in our case, the Stormcloaks are the corrupt and oppressive authority. Not sure why you would even bring that up, considering you support the Stormcloaks.

Quote from: Blanko on January 06, 2012, 05:04:56 AM

In short, the Empire take more part in taking out the Thalmor in Skyrim instead of prosecuting Talos worshippers. The Imperials understand that the ban was a required condition to uphold this temporary peace, but do nothing to actually uphold this condition. And in fact the Thalmor only found out about this after Ulfric had murdered the High King, hence it all really comes down to this: Talos worshippers are being prosecuted because of the Stormcloaks' existence. They only had their honor at stake, and they made the decision to act on it and make the situation significantly worse by bringing the matters of Skyrim to Thalmor attention. Long story short, the Stormcloaks were merely buttravaged that there's a condition in the White-Gold Concordat that they don't even understand the meaning of or what its real consequences are, and ensured by themselves that the condition will be upheld by stepping in and messing things up.

Blaming the Victim 101. If you're not grotesquely ignorant about what went on around Markarth in the aftermath of the war, you know that the Stormcloaks only exist because that condition was being enforced. You cannot claim them to be the aggressors in this conflict; their actions are primarily defensive, taken to preserve their homeland and way of life. The Thalmor are in Skyrim now because the Imperials permit them to be there - do you seriously deny this?

Quote from: Blanko on January 06, 2012, 05:04:56 AM

Yes. The Imperials can't stand the Thalmor any more than the Stormcloaks do.

Except the Imperials allow the Thalmor to traipse through their territory, freely torturing and executing citizens at whim. Say what you will about Jarl Ulfric, but he doesn't tolerate that.

The Thalmor are in Skyrim because the Empire was failing to fulfil their contractual obligation to route out Talos worship.  As I'm sure you know, the Thalmor found out that the people of Markarth were allowing safe haven for Talos worshippers and came in to intervene.  The thalmor are way more directly responsible for the Markarth Incident than the Empire.  If you want to say it's the Empire's fault, it's because they were willfully ignoring the terms of the white-gold concordat in the first place.  How does this really justify the Stormcloak hate against the empire?  The Empire isn't really "allowing" the Thalmor to trample all over their rights, any more than the Native Americans let the Europeans trample all over theirs.

Quote from: Blanko on January 06, 2012, 05:04:56 AM

Oh, they probably do, but they just don't realise that fighting for what they fight for is a shit idea.

I don't happen to believe that fighting to preserve the rights of your fellow countrymen against a thoroughly corrupt and oppressive foreign authority is a "shit idea". That is where you and I differ.

Every Imperial and every other empire-aligned person I've talked to speaks of the Thalmor occupation as a temporary condition.  Which any sane peoples being occupied by a "thoroughly corrupt and oppressive foreign authority" is going to say, but it's not as if there are certainly no plans by the Empire to free themselves in the future.  The Stormcloak rebels, in the long run, are going to find they're biting themselves in the ass when the Empire finally prepares and launches a rebellion of their own, and drive the Thalmor back out of their lands.

However, considering that if the Stormcloaks win, the Empire may never gain the resources or advantage needed by the availability of having Skyrim's greatest warriors to aid in the offensive.  This means the Empire will probably collapse, and Skyrim is left fending for itself against both the Thalmor, and in general losing the powerful economical resource.

Since the Empire has already lost Hammerfell, the chances of the Empire lasting after also losing Skyrim is pretty much nil.

Now, the only reason I'm arguing FOR the empire is because FUCK the Thalmor, so the Empire collapsing isn't entirely a bad thing for Tamriel in general.  But the collapse of the Empire basically gives free reign for the Aldmeri forces to descend upon each of the countries individually and pick them off one by one.  Hammerfell may have defended their country themselves while the Thalmor forces were spread across the entirety of the Empire territory.  I doubt each country could survive a direct, concentrated attack.

Just my two septims, though.

You guys are taking Skyrim far too seriously.

The Stormcloaks can barely control their towns and the safety of their roads is abominable.  Every poor murdered and plundered Kajiit that I have seen has been in Stormcloak territory.  A Stormcloak victory would bring more chaos and a bunch of petty strongmen stomping on the faces of the people as soon as they get the power.  It will be up to the supporters of the Empire to help wipe out the Thalmor which I intend to do just as soon as I cook a nice mammoth snout dinner.

The Stormcloaks can barely control their towns and the safety of their roads is abominable.  Every poor murdered and plundered Kajiit that I have seen has been in Stormcloak territory.  A Stormcloak victory would bring more chaos and a bunch of petty strongmen stomping on the faces of the people as soon as they get the power.  It will be up to the supporters of the Empire to help wipe out the Thalmor which I intend to do just as soon as I cook a nice mammoth snout dinner.

I'm thinking this is a good indicator that Skyrim wouldn't stand a chance against the Thalmor without the Empire's help (and as I've said, vice-versa).  Nords are hearty and strong people, but they are also cocky and too self-sure.  I really don't think Ulfric and his boys seem to understand what they're really up against.  Seems that the Great War wasn't recent enough in everyone's memories in Skyrim to make them understand.

Quote from: Mrs. Peach on January 07, 2012, 08:38:10 PM

The Stormcloaks can barely control their towns and the safety of their roads is abominable.  Every poor murdered and plundered Kajiit that I have seen has been in Stormcloak territory.  A Stormcloak victory would bring more chaos and a bunch of petty strongmen stomping on the faces of the people as soon as they get the power.  It will be up to the supporters of the Empire to help wipe out the Thalmor which I intend to do just as soon as I cook a nice mammoth snout dinner.

I'm thinking this is a good indicator that Skyrim wouldn't stand a chance against the Thalmor without the Empire's help (and as I've said, vice-versa).  Nords are hearty and strong people, but they are also cocky and too self-sure.  I really don't think Ulfric and his boys seem to understand what they're really up against.  Seems that the Great War wasn't recent enough in everyone's memories in Skyrim to make them understand.

Thalmor are pussies. Want to know who really should control Skyrim? Those orc strongholds. Sure their chiefs are bad at fist fights, but boy do most of them have their shit together

Orcs are even worse egotists than Nords.

Yep and yep to Vongeo and Nomad and why I concentrated on Orcs for Blades recruitment.  They seem to be doing well.  I also snuck in that silly woman in my house in Whiterun who kept sitting in MY room noisily snacking on whatever.  Seriously, she wasn't worth the worry on field trips and she wouldn't cook.

Yep and yep to Vongeo and Nomad and why I concentrated on Orcs for Blades recruitment.  They seem to be doing well.  I also snuck in that silly woman in my house in Whiterun who kept sitting in MY room noisily snacking on whatever.  Seriously, she wasn't worth the worry on field trips and she wouldn't cook.

I know! What a lazy woman. She even had the audacity to sit in my room while my husband was sleeping. I should kill the slut.

Yep and yep to Vongeo and Nomad and why I concentrated on Orcs for Blades recruitment.  They seem to be doing well.  I also snuck in that silly woman in my house in Whiterun who kept sitting in MY room noisily snacking on whatever.  Seriously, she wasn't worth the worry on field trips and she wouldn't cook.

Lydia?  I used her in the Boethiah sidequest.  It was getting uncomfortable with her just sitting around my house with my wife all day.  Probably going to find a way to remove my Housecarl in Solitude now for the same reason.

Lydia?  I used her in the Boethiah sidequest.  It was getting uncomfortable with her just sitting around my house with my wife all day.  Probably going to find a way to remove my Housecarl in Solitude now for the same reason.

Yeah, Lydia the Mule.  Video game manners continually astound me.  Why couldn't I tell the woman to just go home?  Didn't want to hurt her feelings.  Gak,  I can't believe myself. 


May I use this thread to compliment your new avatar?  'Tis the cat's pajamas.

I've never bothered with Lydia. I don't want some bitchy (seriously, she just sounds so damn sarky all the time) spacker following me around and walking into the fire rune  I planted.

I've never bothered with Lydia. I don't want some bitchy (seriously, she just sounds so damn sarky all the time) spacker following me around and walking into the fire rune  I planted.

She's crying, you know.

I even outfitted her with ebony armour and weapons.  My generosity knows no bounds.  Likewise my stupidity. 

Bitch was in my house. Killed her right away.

Didn't invite bitch there.

I have now told Meeko to go home.

Cicero sings for me.

Cicero's dead.

Lol, nope

Quote from: Mrs. Peach on January 07, 2012, 10:58:12 PM

Yep and yep to Vongeo and Nomad and why I concentrated on Orcs for Blades recruitment.  They seem to be doing well.  I also snuck in that silly woman in my house in Whiterun who kept sitting in MY room noisily snacking on whatever.  Seriously, she wasn't worth the worry on field trips and she wouldn't cook.

Lydia?  I used her in the Boethiah sidequest.  It was getting uncomfortable with her just sitting around my house with my wife all day.  Probably going to find a way to remove my Housecarl in Solitude now for the same reason.

Make her a blade.

[long post]
Further evidence that any people would prefer to be ruled poorly by their own than well by others.

 First of all, the Empire turned its back on its own citizens and betrayed them to the Thalmor. Let us not forget that.

I was under the impression that the peace treaty was necessary as the Empire was eventually going to lose the war. How is this peace treaty betrayal? Having to worship one god (in secret) is not that big of a loss in the big picture. The Nords are idiots.

Yeah, I wouldn't call the treaty a betrayal, considering that the options were to keep fighting a losing war and be slaughtered, or submit to some stupid bullshit for a bit while regrouping your troups.  Of course again, seems that'll be hard since nobody has the empire's back anymore.

I have hopped on the bandwagon by buying Skyrim.  I've only been playing it for a few days so far, and there's not really much I can say about the game itself that hasn't already been said, but this super srs discussion is interesting.  The key question is, which group is it that's impeding the formation of a potential alliance to fight the Thalmor, the Empire or the Stormcloaks?  Or are both groups at fault?

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the similarity between the words "Stormcloak" and "Stormfront"?

I'd say it's the Stormcloaks, because of their racism. If they'd let the Dunmer help, they'd decimate the Thalmor.

Also, if it was the Dragonborn against the Aldmeri Dominion, we all know who would be the last one standing.

Just wait for Skyrim II: Return of the Dragonborn.  A new Action RPG developed by Square-Enix under Bethesda's direction.  You play a Visual Kei stylized character who meets a ragtag group of equally stylish, androgynous characters on the way to defeating the evil Aldmeri oppressors (who also threaten to destroy the world in some epically overstated way or another).  Coming November 2012.

I AM DOVAHKIIN!

Quote from: Oscar on January 13, 2012, 03:20:01 PM

 First of all, the Empire turned its back on its own citizens and betrayed them to the Thalmor. Let us not forget that.

I was under the impression that the peace treaty was necessary as the Empire was eventually going to lose the war. How is this peace treaty betrayal? Having to worship one god (in secret) is not that big of a loss in the big picture. The Nords are idiots.

No, they wouldn't. The Redguard beat the Aldmer on their own, with the Empire behind them the  elves would've been dicked.

Quote from: rooster on January 13, 2012, 04:18:14 PM

Quote from: Oscar on January 13, 2012, 03:20:01 PM

 First of all, the Empire turned its back on its own citizens and betrayed them to the Thalmor. Let us not forget that.

I was under the impression that the peace treaty was necessary as the Empire was eventually going to lose the war. How is this peace treaty betrayal? Having to worship one god (in secret) is not that big of a loss in the big picture. The Nords are idiots.

No, they wouldn't. The Redguard beat the Aldmer on their own, with the Empire behind them the  elves would've been dicked.

Or maybe the imperial generals would have made poor decisions that lost them the war. The Empire is obviously based off of late Rome, and in late Rome lead-induced insanity was common among generals and emperors. It's one of the biggest reasons they fell.

Quote from: Hazbollah on January 14, 2012, 06:17:40 AM

Quote from: rooster on January 13, 2012, 04:18:14 PM

Quote from: Oscar on January 13, 2012, 03:20:01 PM

 First of all, the Empire turned its back on its own citizens and betrayed them to the Thalmor. Let us not forget that.

I was under the impression that the peace treaty was necessary as the Empire was eventually going to lose the war. How is this peace treaty betrayal? Having to worship one god (in secret) is not that big of a loss in the big picture. The Nords are idiots.

No, they wouldn't. The Redguard beat the Aldmer on their own, with the Empire behind them the  elves would've been dicked.

Or maybe the imperial generals would have made poor decisions that lost them the war. The Empire is obviously based off of late Rome, and in late Rome lead-induced insanity was common among generals and emperors. It's one of the biggest reasons they fell.

I don't know, Titus Mede seems quite capable, and his general from Skyrim (?) did as well. And the Redguard obviously weren't idiots.