Explain how it could possibly be flat

How did i fly around the world on vacation last year?

Why do photographs from space show the earth as round?

How it is it, that if i place two poles in the ground perpendicular to the surface, calc. and trig. will be able to measure the radius of the earth from the resulting triangles formed by the shadows?

Explain the Coriolis force if the earth is flat.

This site HAS to be a joke, nobody can really believe the earth is flat... Can they?

This site HAS to be a joke, nobody can really believe the earth is flat... Can they?

I think you lack faith, my friend. The Bible is very clear in its description of the world - it is flat. The Bible says the earth was created in seven days. The Bible tells us Jesus died for our sins.

You have to believe it all - or none of it. The creation scientists, for example, accept two out of three of the above as literal truth - but choose to reject the flat earth. This is astonishing arrogance, God has given us his word - it is not for us to pick and choose which bits to believe.

The Bible is very clear in its description of the world - it is flat.

The Bible is clear about nothing.  I can't be arsed to find it, but someone posted to a thread elsewhere on this board, some links quoting the Bible as saying the earth is round. I don't take any of it literally, so both points are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Next.

- it is flat. The Bible says the earth was created in seven days. The Bible tells us Jesus died for our sins.

The creation scientists, for example, accept two out of three of the above as literal truth - but choose to reject the flat earth.

Creation scientists. Brilliant oxymoron there! I raise you 'Military Intelligence'. The fact that they do believe the earth was created in seven days clearly demonstrates their breathtaking lack of authority or knowlegde on any sort of scientific issue. Next.

The Bible tells us Jesus died for our sins.

Purely subjective. Give me some evidence. Otherwise, next.

You have to believe it all.

Why?

If I wrote a book instructing you to eat pizza with your feet for 5 days out of every month, you'd laugh at me. Apparently though, if someone writes it 2000ish years ago, and says it is the literal word of God, then it is undeniably the word of God.

How can you be sure someone isn't having you on?

I have no issue against faith. People can believe what they want, so don't use that argument on me (a matter of faith isn't proveable either way, anyhow). But don't try and pretend everything written in the Bible is 'just the way it is', because you will find you'll come up against a whole lot of problems.

bcampestris wrote:

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You have to believe it all.

Why?

You are guilty of taking my words out of context and adding a full stop which was not there.

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bcampestris wrote:

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You have to believe it all.

Why?

You are guilty of taking my words out of context and adding a full stop which was not there.

[/quote]

Fair enough, my apologies.

I took the assumption from the content of your posting that it was your belief that it was all true.

But aside from that, I am interested to hear your comments on my other points, if indeed you have any.

The Bible is clear about nothing. I can't be arsed to find it, but someone posted to a thread elsewhere on this board, some links quoting the Bible as saying the earth is round. I don't take any of it literally, so both points are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Next.

Actually, biblical text is generally consistent with a flat earth view. Presumably most Christians interpret this as figurative language. Begs the question though, where does the book stop being figurative and start being a literal truth?

Creation scientists. Brilliant oxymoron there! I raise you 'Military Intelligence'. The fact that they do believe the earth was created in seven days clearly demonstrates their breathtaking lack of authority or knowlegde on any sort of scientific issue. Next.

I think you make the mistake of assuming that someone who disagrees with you is wrong. This makes you no better than the Creation Scientists you seem to despise. I don't think 'Creation Scientists' is technically an oxymoron, but I am prepared to be guided by you.

Purely subjective. Give me some evidence. Otherwise, next.

No really, it does tell us that. Do you want chapter and verse?

If I wrote a book instructing you to eat pizza with your feet for 5 days out of every month, you'd laugh at me. Apparently though, if someone writes it 2000ish years ago, and says it is the literal word of God, then it is undeniably the word of God.

How can you be sure someone isn't having you on?

I have no issue against faith. People can believe what they want, so don't use that argument on me (a matter of faith isn't proveable either way, anyhow). But don't try and pretend everything written in the Bible is 'just the way it is', because you will find you'll come up against a whole lot of problems.

Which is why you have to believe it all - or none of it: its flat earth or nothing.

Which is why you have to believe it all - or none of it: its flat earth or nothing.

Knock yourself out.  Just leave science out of it, and have enough "faith" in your beliefs to admit that science does not produce the same conclusion.
Seriously, all these religious people who clamour on about the Bible shouldn't care what science says.  If your faith is strong enough, you know deep down that science is wrong, no matter how strong the evidence is, correct?  So stop pretending that science doesn't disagree with you when it's so plainly obvious that it does.

Quote from: "bcampestris"

Which is why you have to believe it all - or none of it: its flat earth or nothing.

Knock yourself out.  Just leave science out of it, and have enough "faith" in your beliefs to admit that science does not produce the same conclusion.
Seriously, all these religious people who clamour on about the Bible shouldn't care what science says.  If your faith is strong enough, you know deep down that science is wrong, no matter how strong the evidence is, correct?  So stop pretending that science doesn't disagree with you when it's so plainly obvious that it does.

Can we remember who knocked on who's door here.

Actually, biblical text is generally consistent with a flat earth view. Presumably most Christians interpret this as figurative language. Begs the question though, where does the book stop being figurative and start being a literal truth?

So just to clarify, are you saying the vast majority of Christians who believe any part of the Bible is anything other than the literal truth are just plain wrong? Are you saying they are not true Christians?

I think you make the mistake of assuming that someone who disagrees with you is wrong.

Er, I don't think thats a mistake. I'd take it as red that if someone diagrees with me, they think I am wrong. As far as I can tell, I haven't ever been involved in a disagreement where I know the other person is right. Have you?

This makes you no better than the Creation Scientists you seem to despise.

Ooh, do explain. And I don't think I could despise someone for thinking the world was created in 7 days. Intrigued, maybe.

Creationism is a faith. Fair enough, no problem.
However, it has no basis, relevance or bearing in science, and should not be promoted as such. This is a fact.

No really, it does tell us that. Do you want chapter and verse?

OK, it tells us that. We shall agree there is no actual proof. You choose to believe it. I don't.

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But don't try and pretend everything written in the Bible is 'just the way it is', because you will find you'll come up against a whole lot of problems.

Which is why you have to believe it all - or none of it: its flat earth or nothing.

Which amounts to nothing but blind faith!

Echoing WTF's comments - there is nothing wrong with faith (in my opinion it is a fairly indefensible position to find umbrage with someones faith); what I don't understand is the constant need to 'legitimise' it in scientific terms in order to convince the 'non-believers'.

Just admit it is faith and only faith. :? [/b]

So just to clarify, are you saying the vast majority of Christians who believe any part of the Bible is anything other than the literal truth are just plain wrong? Are you saying they are not true Christians?

I am saying that if you base your faith on the word of God then you can't pick and choose.

Er, I don't think thats a mistake. I'd take it as red that if someone diagrees with me, they think I am wrong. As far as I can tell, I haven't ever been involved in a disagreement where I know the other person is right. Have you?

You must be a very difficult person to deal with if you believe you are always right.

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This makes you no better than the Creation Scientists you seem to despise.

Ooh, do explain. And I don't think I could despise someone for thinking the world was created in 7 days. Intrigued, maybe.

Creationism is a faith. Fair enough, no problem.
However, it has no basis, relevance or bearing in science, and should not be promoted as such. This is a fact.

You said:

Creation scientists. Brilliant oxymoron there! I raise you 'Military Intelligence'. The fact that they do believe the earth was created in seven days clearly demonstrates their breathtaking lack of authority or knowlegde on any sort of scientific issue. Next.

Yes, but you are adopting an unscientific position. You can't say something is 'wrong' or something else is a 'fact'. You might say that Creation Scientist's beliefs are inconsistent with available evidence, fair enough, but to start accusing people of ignorance or being 'just plain wrong' will shut down any hope of a debate.  

OK, it tells us that. We shall agree there is no actual proof. You choose to believe it. I don't.

Do I, who said?

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Which is why you have to believe it all - or none of it: its flat earth or nothing.

Which amounts to nothing but blind faith!

Echoing WTF's comments - there is nothing wrong with faith (in my opinion it is a fairly indefensible position to find umbrage with someones faith); what I don't understand is the constant need to 'legitimise' it in scientific terms in order to convince the 'non-believers'.

Just admit it is faith and only faith. :?

I don't think I ever said anything else.

bcampestris I don't disagree with much of your last post because you are leaving it in the realm of faith.  That's fine.  This part I disagree with though:

Yes, but you are adopting an unscientific position. You can't say something is 'wrong' or something else is a 'fact'. You might say that Creation Scientist's beliefs are inconsistent with available evidence, fair enough, but to start accusing people of ignorance or being 'just plain wrong' will shut down any hope of a debate.  

I can't say that Creation is wrong as a fact.  But I can say that Creation is unscientific, and that is a fact.  I can also say that anyone who claims they are doing science to support creation is flat out wrong - because they are not doing science.  This doesn't mean that creation is wrong, but it's simply not science.

bcampestris I don't disagree with much of your last post because you are leaving it in the realm of faith.  That's fine.  This part I disagree with though:

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Yes, but you are adopting an unscientific position. You can't say something is 'wrong' or something else is a 'fact'. You might say that Creation Scientist's beliefs are inconsistent with available evidence, fair enough, but to start accusing people of ignorance or being 'just plain wrong' will shut down any hope of a debate.  

I can't say that Creation is wrong as a fact.  But I can say that Creation is unscientific, and that is a fact.  I can also say that anyone who claims they are doing science to support creation is flat out wrong - because they are not doing science.  This doesn't mean that creation is wrong, but it's simply not science.

So its this muddle between bases of belief... trouble is you can't use evidence to argue against faith nor faith to challenge evidence. Not if you want to avoid an unholy row.

I don't use evidence to counter faith.  Heck, how many times on these forums have I said "If you believe the earth is flat based on faith, I don't have a problem with it"(though, you are still wrong  I just won't argue with you about it).  How many times have I said "It's where people assert that science is on their side that I have a problem with it"?
 I (and science) use evidence to best explain the world.
It isn't my fault that RELIGIOUS people find conflicts there.  But science itself makes NO claims about God.  Evolution is the typical example.  Religious people attack evolution to hell and back because they think it attacks their religion.
Well, evolution doesn't say anything about God.  If it happens to contradict this religion or that religion - hey, it's bound to happen.  There's lots of religions out there, and science probably contradicts a heck of a lot of them somewhere.  But it doesn't care about God, and it doesn't say a word about God.

I don't use evidence to counter faith.  Heck, how many times on these forums have I said "If you believe the earth is flat based on faith, I don't have a problem with it"(though, you are still wrong  I just won't argue with you about it).  How many times have I said "It's where people assert that science is on their side that I have a problem with it"?
 I (and science) use evidence to best explain the world.
It isn't my fault that RELIGIOUS people find conflicts there.  But science itself makes NO claims about God.  Evolution is the typical example.  Religious people attack evolution to hell and back because they think it attacks their religion.
Well, evolution doesn't say anything about God.  If it happens to contradict this religion or that religion - hey, it's bound to happen.  There's lots of religions out there, and science probably contradicts a heck of a lot of them somewhere.  But it doesn't care about God, and it doesn't say a word about God.

Maybe it would be better to insist all religions had equal billing.

Maybe it would be better to insist all religions had equal billing.

I hope you're kidding about this, the very nature of modern science revolves around being ridiculously carefull about not biasing studies in any way what so ever, there are of course biased studies im sure you could argue plenty of examples and so could I (creationism and ID being the main ones) however when properly carried out and repeated by many different scientists around the world results are results and facts are facts.
Further to the point if Christianity wasn't such a touchy subject with people it would have been long since thrown away by anybody who has any scientific background or can follow a logical arguement because it has been and is still today wrong on many points (notice i did not say all, but most of the stuff that is possible to prove wrong has been), this is nothing against chiristians, its not a massive conspiracy by satanists or anything but the bible has been proven wrong many times. This is before even mentioning why christianity was so strongly instilled by the higher ups in the first place and how it was quite convenient that christianity was extremly usefull for holding power, waging wars, keeping the poor poor and getting money from the rich (if you disagree with this then id be very interested to hear what you think that the english church telling people that if you're poor youll spend less time in hell before going to heaven and if you're rich then you can 'buy time off' your stay in hell).

Either way this rant has gone on longer than i expected and i'm hungry

P.S. Don't pray in my school and i won't think in your church[/u]

You're all wrong! The earth is a square! Revlations 7:1 ftw.

Or maybe the bible isn't being literal here.

You're all wrong! The earth is a square! Revlations 7:1 ftw.

Or maybe the bible isn't being literal here.

ok thats talking about land masses you douche but i would like to see the verse that bcampestris is referring to