How does GPS work if no satellites?

You probably need to do a little more research on GPS or demand a refund then...

You probably need to do a little more research on GPS or demand a refund then...

What good would that do?  There isn't a GPS unit made in the world that doesn't lose reception if its obstructed.  The reason is very simple,   its because its getting a signal from something in the sky....a satellite. 

Well, heaven knows, it's a miracle that your GPS works at all without radio waves.

I'm a flat earther that believes in satellites.  They are simply caught in aetheric tides above the earth.

Ski is 100% correct in that GPS uses radio signals.  All you need for GPS to function are some accurate clocks and some radio transmitters / receivers. 

GPS satellites transmit two low power radio signals, designated L1 and L2. Civilian GPS uses the L1 frequency of 1575.42 MHz in the UHF band. The signals travel by line of sight, meaning they will pass through clouds, glass and plastic, but will not go through most solid objects such as buildings and mountains.

This has been my report on GPS I hope you liked it thank you.

I'm a flat earther that believes in satellites.  They are simply caught in aetheric tides above the earth.

Ski is 100% correct in that GPS uses radio signals.  All you need for GPS to function are some accurate clocks and some radio transmitters / receivers.

And all you need is some directional antennas and spectrum analyzers to verify the data contained within the signals and the fact that the signal sources are moving.

i was on a first aid course today and the instructor told us something u may find of interest, especially if u live in the uk and us. for an emergency you now dial 112 for a better response. ill leave out the other more imortant reasons as they have little relevance but:
112 boosts the phone signal for upto 1 min after your call aswell as letting you call in the first place. the person who takes the call can then triagulate your position within 3m. this is simply using phone masts and signals so the same can then be applied to gps

And all you need is some directional antennas and spectrum analyzers to verify the data contained within the signals and the fact that the signal sources are moving.

Incorrect.  That would verify the sources appear to be moving. 

Quote from: markjo on September 23, 2011, 09:04:35 AM

And all you need is some directional antennas and spectrum analyzers to verify the data contained within the signals and the fact that the signal sources are moving.

Incorrect.  That would verify the sources appear to be moving.

How does one make a stationary radio source appear to move?  You do realize that by using 2 directional antennas, it would be possible to triangulate the position of the radio source and tell if it is indeed moving or stationary.

Please refrain from low content posting in the discussion forums.

Quote from: John Davis on September 23, 2011, 11:07:11 AM

Quote from: markjo on September 23, 2011, 09:04:35 AM

And all you need is some directional antennas and spectrum analyzers to verify the data contained within the signals and the fact that the signal sources are moving.

Incorrect.  That would verify the sources appear to be moving.

How does one make a stationary radio source appear to move?  You do realize that by using 2 directional antennas, it would be possible to triangulate the position of the radio source and tell if it is indeed moving or stationary.

You can only triangulate something if you can draw a triangle.  Especially if something is effecting EM radiation.  Perhaps Aether, Engineers force, or EA.

Quote from: markjo on September 23, 2011, 12:29:35 PM

Quote from: John Davis on September 23, 2011, 11:07:11 AM

Quote from: markjo on September 23, 2011, 09:04:35 AM

And all you need is some directional antennas and spectrum analyzers to verify the data contained within the signals and the fact that the signal sources are moving.

Incorrect.  That would verify the sources appear to be moving.

How does one make a stationary radio source appear to move?  You do realize that by using 2 directional antennas, it would be possible to triangulate the position of the radio source and tell if it is indeed moving or stationary.

You can only triangulate something if you can draw a triangle.  Especially if something is effecting EM radiation.  Perhaps Aether, Engineers force, or EA.

Thus NASA, or whoever sends up the satellites would need to have a comprehensive theory of EA (bendy light), and then would have to calculate very fast trajectories for these satellites. And EA/Aether currents would have to perfect match certain criteria to duplicate the RE phenomena. In other words, conditions beyond NASA's control would have to be ideal for the conspiracy to work.

Quote from: John Davis on September 26, 2011, 09:42:10 PM

Quote from: markjo on September 23, 2011, 12:29:35 PM

Quote from: John Davis on September 23, 2011, 11:07:11 AM

Quote from: markjo on September 23, 2011, 09:04:35 AM

And all you need is some directional antennas and spectrum analyzers to verify the data contained within the signals and the fact that the signal sources are moving.

Incorrect.  That would verify the sources appear to be moving.

How does one make a stationary radio source appear to move?  You do realize that by using 2 directional antennas, it would be possible to triangulate the position of the radio source and tell if it is indeed moving or stationary.

You can only triangulate something if you can draw a triangle.  Especially if something is effecting EM radiation.  Perhaps Aether, Engineers force, or EA.

Thus NASA, or whoever sends up the satellites would need to have a comprehensive theory of EA (bendy light), and then would have to calculate very fast trajectories for these satellites. And EA/Aether currents would have to perfect match certain criteria to duplicate the RE phenomena. In other words, conditions beyond NASA's control would have to be ideal for the conspiracy to work.

What conspiracy?  NASA is just incompetent.  Finally through years of spending American hero blood to grease the engines of their progress, they have fumbled through the dark and figured out a model that is close enough to the real thing to work.  Next if they could only handle their books!

What conspiracy?  NASA is just incompetent.  Finally through years of spending American hero blood to grease the engines of their progress, they have fumbled through the dark and figured out a model that is close enough to the real thing to work.  Next if they could only handle their books!

Wait, so (in my mind) you think that the RE model (the one NASA uses) is accurate enough to launch space craft into FE aether streams that just happen to exactly follow RE trajectory calculations? And the AE bends light just perfectly to make the earth appear spherical from space, and perfectly enough to allow for accurate RE triangulation? Because that's what I am reading, but I don't think thats what you're saying.

I would like some elaboration on what YOU think NASA might be basing on an non-RE model (and thus making a conspiracy), including (to keep as much on thread as possible):
~Orbit trajectory calculations
~GPS triangulation

If they use non-RE models, what might they use?
Do you have a (rough) quantitative model of AE?
Do you have a (rough) quantitative model of orbit trajectories or aether currents?

You can only triangulate something if you can draw a triangle. 

Not true.  You only have to have two lines to "triangulate" a location.  If someone is receiving a signal from a certain direction, lets say 50 degrees from their present location, and someone else is receiving a signal from another direction, lets say 90 degrees from their present location, then we can triangulate the location of the signal by placing a point on the map for each person, then drawing a line in the direction that the signal was received for each one.  Where the lines cross is the source of the signal.  A third line will only confirm the source of the signal, but it will not make a triangle, it will make three lines that intersect at the point of the signal.

You can only triangulate something if you can draw a triangle.  Especially if something is effecting EM radiation.  Perhaps Aether, Engineers force, or EA.

Obviously using GPS signals (generated by whatever actual means) works as an accurate positioning system, therefore it must be possible to accurately locate the sources of those signals.

Quote from: John Davis on September 26, 2011, 09:42:10 PM

You can only triangulate something if you can draw a triangle.  Especially if something is effecting EM radiation.  Perhaps Aether, Engineers force, or EA.

Obviously using GPS signals (generated by whatever actual means) works as an accurate positioning system, therefore it must be possible to accurately locate the sources of those signals.

Why do you think this?

Quote from: John Davis on September 26, 2011, 09:42:10 PM

You can only triangulate something if you can draw a triangle. 

Not true.  You only have to have two lines to "triangulate" a location.

Yes I know, but if what I'm suggesting is true, your point has no bearing.  Its completely secondary and has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.  You can only triangulate if the radio signals are travelling in a straight line.  Otherwise you are not triangulating anything.  Please note what I said.  I said you must be ABLE to draw the third line.  Not you must draw the third line.

Quote from: John Davis on September 26, 2011, 10:18:20 PM

What conspiracy?  NASA is just incompetent.  Finally through years of spending American hero blood to grease the engines of their progress, they have fumbled through the dark and figured out a model that is close enough to the real thing to work.  Next if they could only handle their books!

Wait, so (in my mind) you think that the RE model (the one NASA uses) is accurate enough to launch space craft into FE aether streams that just happen to exactly follow RE trajectory calculations? And the AE bends light just perfectly to make the earth appear spherical from space, and perfectly enough to allow for accurate RE triangulation? Because that's what I am reading, but I don't think thats what you're saying.

I would like some elaboration on what YOU think NASA might be basing on an non-RE model (and thus making a conspiracy), including (to keep as much on thread as possible):
~Orbit trajectory calculations
~GPS triangulation

If they use non-RE models, what might they use?
Do you have a (rough) quantitative model of AE?
Do you have a (rough) quantitative model of orbit trajectories or aether currents?

Science has built a model that mimics the results of the physical laws with different mechanisms.  Such often the case in what is essentially blackbox reverse engineering.

Quote from: markjo on September 27, 2011, 05:36:11 AM

Quote from: John Davis on September 26, 2011, 09:42:10 PM

You can only triangulate something if you can draw a triangle.  Especially if something is effecting EM radiation.  Perhaps Aether, Engineers force, or EA.

Obviously using GPS signals (generated by whatever actual means) works as an accurate positioning system, therefore it must be possible to accurately locate the sources of those signals.

Why do you think this?

Because the multilateration algorithm used by GPS receivers requires the locations of the signal sources (satellites).  Also, the frequencies of and data contained within the GPS signals is documented and publicly available so that anyone with the proper equipment and know how can build their own GPS receiver without any conspiracy assistance.

Yes, but to simplify, if the satellites are stationary, and aether affects their light flow all that is required is that light is travelling such that they appear to be in the correct location.  They need not actually be in that location.

Yes, but to simplify, if the satellites are stationary, and aether affects their light flow all that is required is that light is travelling such that they appear to be in the correct location.  They need not actually be in that location.

But GPS satellites are not stationary.  That's the whole point of using directional antennas to track the movement of the GPS signal sources.

All you FEers need to do one single thing : Go buy a damn telescope and watch the sky. You'll see for yourself that there ARE satellites. You will see them moving (orbiting) with your own eyes. You can even see them with your naked eye, they look like a star, except that its slow moving. And if you zoom in with a good enough telescope, you will see the actual satellite in detail.

But i guess you'll find a good reason not to do this simple task? Thork, what's your excuse??

Quote from: John Davis on September 27, 2011, 06:27:36 AM

Yes, but to simplify, if the satellites are stationary, and aether affects their light flow all that is required is that light is travelling such that they appear to be in the correct location.  They need not actually be in that location.

But GPS satellites are not stationary.  That's the whole point of using directional antennas to track the movement of the GPS signal sources.

We don't know if they are stationary or not, and it doesn't matter at all.  All that matters is the apparent path the light takes, not its actual path.

Directional antennas don't work to triangulate if em is being bent.

All you FEers need to do one single thing : Go buy a damn telescope and watch the sky. You'll see for yourself that there ARE satellites. You will see them moving (orbiting) with your own eyes. You can even see them with your naked eye, they look like a star, except that its slow moving. And if you zoom in with a good enough telescope, you will see the actual satellite in detail.

But i guess you'll find a good reason not to do this simple task? Thork, what's your excuse??

Of course satellites exist.

Quote from: markjo on September 27, 2011, 08:03:49 AM

Quote from: John Davis on September 27, 2011, 06:27:36 AM

Yes, but to simplify, if the satellites are stationary, and aether affects their light flow all that is required is that light is travelling such that they appear to be in the correct location.  They need not actually be in that location.

But GPS satellites are not stationary.  That's the whole point of using directional antennas to track the movement of the GPS signal sources.

We don't know if they are stationary or not, and it doesn't matter at all.  All that matters is the apparent path the light takes, not its actual path.

The actual paths that the signals takes do matter because of the very precise and accurate timing of the multiple signals required for accurate multilateration.

Directional antennas don't work to triangulate if em is being bent.

They do if you know how to compensate for the bending.

Quote from: John Davis on September 27, 2011, 08:16:47 AM

Quote from: markjo on September 27, 2011, 08:03:49 AM

Quote from: John Davis on September 27, 2011, 06:27:36 AM

Yes, but to simplify, if the satellites are stationary, and aether affects their light flow all that is required is that light is travelling such that they appear to be in the correct location.  They need not actually be in that location.

But GPS satellites are not stationary.  That's the whole point of using directional antennas to track the movement of the GPS signal sources.

We don't know if they are stationary or not, and it doesn't matter at all.  All that matters is the apparent path the light takes, not its actual path.

The actual paths that the signals takes do matter because of the very precise and accurate timing of the multiple signals required for accurate multilateration.

Quote from: John Davis on September 27, 2011, 08:16:47 AM

Directional antennas don't work to triangulate if em is being bent.

They do if you know how to compensate for the bending.

And you can't compensate for the bending because we can't directly observe their location.

The actual paths do not matter.  What matters is the time it takes to traverse these paths.

At no point does a radio receiver ask "Where did this signal come from".  At best it can determine how long it took to get to it.

Quote from: gnnmsf on September 27, 2011, 08:05:44 AM

All you FEers need to do one single thing : Go buy a damn telescope and watch the sky. You'll see for yourself that there ARE satellites. You will see them moving (orbiting) with your own eyes. You can even see them with your naked eye, they look like a star, except that its slow moving. And if you zoom in with a good enough telescope, you will see the actual satellite in detail.

But i guess you'll find a good reason not to do this simple task? Thork, what's your excuse??

Of course satellites exist.

Well you guys need to get your act together, because some of you think they don't, some of you think they do. Funny how FEers never agree on anything, while REers understand all the facts the same, with logical explanations and actual observations.

Its like you guys each have your own opinion of how your FE works. There's not even a consensus among your society. And so your theory is not a theory, its a funny idea with random and subjective explanations based on your own guesses, at best.

All I get out of this is that NASA is just stupid and uses the RE model. It happens to work perfectly due to bendy light and aetheric currents that NASA does not know exist. And the RE triangulation model just happens to work too. But the earth is actually flat? Thats pretty hard to believe.

Basically, you are saying unknown forces do remarkable things to satellites and light that happen to exactly match what RE naturally predicts about satellites. This makes no sense.

All I get out of this is that NASA is just stupid and uses the RE model. It happens to work perfectly due to bendy light and aetheric currents that NASA does not know exist. And the RE triangulation model just happens to work too. But the earth is actually flat? Thats pretty hard to believe.

Basically, you are saying unknown forces do remarkable things to satellites and light that happen to exactly match what RE naturally predicts about satellites. This makes no sense.

Perfectly?

I suppose thats a pretty perfect record.  If you measure perfection by the amount of blood on ones hands.

And you can't compensate for the bending because we can't directly observe their location.

The actual paths do not matter.  What matters is the time it takes to traverse these paths.

At no point does a radio receiver ask "Where did this signal come from".  At best it can determine how long it took to get to it.

Actually, the receiver works out the location of the satellite by using the almanac data that describes the orbital parameters of each satellite.  This almanac data is embedded in the signals transmitted by each GPS satellite.

Also, if the receiver doesn't know where the signal source is located, then the timing is pretty much useless, don't you think?