Is there any evidence for a FE?

When I say evidence Im talking about scientific proof, not theories and claims of conspiracies.

Look out your window. You will see that the earth is flat.

For scientific proof read the book Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham. An online copy is available in my signature.

No Tom, if you look out your window, you might see that a very tiny piece of the earth is flat.  That is not nearly enough data to form an accurate conclusion about the shape of rest of the earth.

Look out your window. You will see that the earth is flat.

Please do not respond to this ridiculous point - It is not what the OP asked and is an early attempt to derail the thread.

No Tom, if you look out your window, you might see that a very tiny piece of the earth is flat.  That is not nearly enough data to form an accurate conclusion about the shape of rest of the earth.

When I look out my window I don't see any data suggesting that the earth is a globe.

I only see data suggesting that the earth is flat.

You can't tell me what "might" be possible when the data clearly favors one over the other.

Read Earth Not a Globe.

Quote from: markjo on August 08, 2011, 06:21:33 AM

No Tom, if you look out your window, you might see that a very tiny piece of the earth is flat.  That is not nearly enough data to form an accurate conclusion about the shape of rest of the earth.

I don't see any data suggesting that the earth is a globe.

I only see data suggesting that the earth is flat.

Read Earth Not a Globe.

Tom, please answer the initial question.  We are not interested in you unscientific methods.

For scientific proof read the book Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham. An online copy is available in my signature.

Im looking for scientific studies, that follow the scientific method and are backed up by other independent studies. Are there any? I see alot of theories justifying ridiculous clames, but nothing else to back it up.

Im not trying to be mean, Im just unable to find evidence to back up the FESs claims.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 08, 2011, 06:23:41 AM

Quote from: markjo on August 08, 2011, 06:21:33 AM

No Tom, if you look out your window, you might see that a very tiny piece of the earth is flat.  That is not nearly enough data to form an accurate conclusion about the shape of rest of the earth.

I don't see any data suggesting that the earth is a globe.

I only see data suggesting that the earth is flat.

Read Earth Not a Globe.

Tom, please answer the initial question.  We are not interested in you unscientific methods.

And I am interested in you speaking in complete sentences.

Im looking for scientific studies, that follow the scientific method and are backed up by other independent studies. Are there any?

Read Earth Not a Globe and the material available in my signature.

Tom, what scientific proof do you have that the earth is flat?

Quote from: markjo on August 08, 2011, 06:21:33 AM

No Tom, if you look out your window, you might see that a very tiny piece of the earth is flat.  That is not nearly enough data to form an accurate conclusion about the shape of rest of the earth.

When I look out my window I don't see any data suggesting that the earth is a globe.

I only see data suggesting that the earth is flat.

You can't tell me what "might" be possible when the data clearly favors one over the other.

Read Earth Not a Globe.

Tom, if you read my post carefully, I said that looking out your window doesn't provide enough data to form a conclusion about the shape of the earth.  I did not say that it favors one theory over another.  I live in a river valley.  For all I know, the edge of the earth could be on the other side of the next hill.

Quote from: Moon squirter on August 08, 2011, 06:25:48 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 08, 2011, 06:23:41 AM

Quote from: markjo on August 08, 2011, 06:21:33 AM

No Tom, if you look out your window, you might see that a very tiny piece of the earth is flat.  That is not nearly enough data to form an accurate conclusion about the shape of rest of the earth.

I don't see any data suggesting that the earth is a globe.

I only see data suggesting that the earth is flat.

Read Earth Not a Globe.

Tom, please answer the initial question.  We are not interested in you unscientific methods.

And I am interested in you speaking in complete sentences.

Quote from: AndersonG22

Im looking for scientific studies, that follow the scientific method and are backed up by other independent studies. Are there any?

Read Earth Not a Globe and the material available in my signature.

Im not interested in a book, Im interested in scientific studies with supporting evidence. If this book is based on science then the science is out there, and I cant find it. That leads me to believe that book is based on opinion rather then fact.

TS, you're not the first person to ask this, and you certainly won't be the last!  Simply put, there are no recent, peer reviewed, scientific papers that claim the Earth is flat.

"Earth Not A Globe" was first published in 1865, so is unbelievably out of date, as well as being pretty much wrong.

Look out your window. You will see that the earth is flat.

For scientific proof read the book Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham. An online copy is available in my signature.

How does seeing ships sink below the horizon "look flat"? How does the inability to see things 30 miles away across the sea on a day when the air visibility is 45 miles "look flat"? How does seeing a sun and moon that are supposedly travelling in a parallel plane to the earths surface dropping below the horizon "look flat"? The fact is, even the "it looks flat" argument is wrong.

Look out your window. You will see that the earth is flat.

For scientific proof read the book Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham. An online copy is available in my signature.

I skimmed it, and read parts. It's basically garbage. He spends one chapter on trying to show earth's flatness, and then takes it as axiom throughout the book.

Does the earth look flat to you Tom?
Does the land in the following image look flat?


This is from a simulator called the Kerbal Space Program. The planet in the simulator has a radius of 600 km, one tenth the radius of ours. This means it looks a lot curvier than our earth. However it looks flat.

In other words, the planet looks flat while its world is round.

"Look out your window. You will see that the earth is flat." invaliding the past, invalid now, invalid in the future.

Tom, what scientific proof do you have that the earth is flat?

See the links in my sig. Samuel Birley Rowbotham proved that the earth is flat through test, trial, and experiment over a period of 30 years. Others have corroborated and verified his findings.

Tom, if you read my post carefully, I said that looking out your window doesn't provide enough data to form a conclusion about the shape of the earth.  I did not say that it favors one theory over another.  I live in a river valley.  For all I know, the edge of the earth could be on the other side of the next hill.

Then it is your burden to go look on the other side of the hill and see if the edge is there. If you go over the hill and see more flat land then you know that the flatness of the earth extends beyond that point.

Im not interested in a book, Im interested in scientific studies with supporting evidence. If this book is based on science then the science is out there, and I cant find it. That leads me to believe that book is based on opinion rather then fact.

The book proves and demonstrates conclusively that the earth is not a globe.

TS, you're not the first person to ask this, and you certainly won't be the last!  Simply put, there are no recent, peer reviewed, scientific papers that claim the Earth is flat.

"Earth Not A Globe" was first published in 1865, so is unbelievably out of date, as well as being pretty much wrong.

Earth Not a Globe was correct in 1865 and it is correct today. Truth does not have an expiration date.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 08, 2011, 06:18:04 AM

Look out your window. You will see that the earth is flat.

For scientific proof read the book Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham. An online copy is available in my signature.

I skimmed it, and read parts. It's basically garbage. He spends one chapter on trying to show earth's flatness, and then takes it as axiom throughout the book.

Does the earth look flat to you Tom?
Does the land in the following image look flat?


This is from a simulator called the Kerbal Space Program. The planet in the simulator has a radius of 600 km, one tenth the radius of ours. This means it looks a lot curvier than our earth. However it looks flat.

In other words, the planet looks flat while its world is round.

"Look out your window. You will see that the earth is flat." invaliding the past, invalid now, invalid in the future.

This info is good, but the simple fact still stands. There are no scientific studies supporting the FES theory. Its like believing in creationism over evolution, believing the theory with no evidence rather then the theory that fits the facts.

But the round earth theory isnt a theory, its a verified fact.

There are no scientific studies supporting the FES theory.

Did you read Earth Not a Globe and the other materials? There are experimental studies which demonstrate that the earth is flat.

I've seen no experimental study which demonstrates that the earth is a globe.

Earth Not a Globe was correct in 1865 and it is correct today. Truth does not have an expiration date.

"If the Earth were a globe, a small model globe would be the very best - because the truest - thing for the navigator to take to sea with him. But such a thing as that is not known: with such a toy as a guide, the mariner would wreck his ship, of a certainty!, This is a proof that Earth is not a globe."

This guy makes arguments, nothing more.

Well, he does make outrageous claims also...

 He was also alleged to be using the name "Dr. Samuel Birley", selling the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable[4] and de Morgan refers to him as S. Goulden.[1] He patented a number of inventions including a 'life-preserving cylindrical railway carriage'.

Is this still the truth? People die from cancer all the time, and other diseases. Im sure he cured diseases back in 1850 or so, we just forgot it.

Quote from: Moon squirter on August 08, 2011, 06:53:39 AM

Tom, what scientific proof do you have that the earth is flat?

See the links in my sig. Samuel Birley Rowbotham proved that the earth is flat through test, trial, and experiment over a period of 30 years. Others have corroborated and verified his findings.

But Robotham uses "zetetics", not science, to realise his conclusions.  For example, chapter 1, verse 9:

"Let the method of simple inquiry--the "Zetetic" process be exclusively adopted--experiments tried and facts collected--not such only as corroborate an already existing state of mind, but of every kind and form bearing on the subject, before a conclusion is drawn, or a conviction affirmed."

Tom, what scientific proof do you have that the earth is flat?

Quote from: AndersonG22 on August 08, 2011, 08:48:42 AM

There are no scientific studies supporting the FES theory.

Did you read Earth Not a Globe and the other materials?

Samuel Rowbotham - A man who claims the earth is flat, and sold "the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable". - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Rowbotham

Why believe him more then nasa, astronots, the russins, china, all of eastern europe, japan, australia, and all the peer reviewed science by people all over the world?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 08, 2011, 08:44:31 AM

Earth Not a Globe was correct in 1865 and it is correct today. Truth does not have an expiration date.

"If the Earth were a globe, a small model globe would be the very best - because the truest - thing for the navigator to take to sea with him. But such a thing as that is not known: with such a toy as a guide, the mariner would wreck his ship, of a certainty!, This is a proof that Earth is not a globe."

This guy makes arguments, nothing more.

Well, he does make outrageous claims also...

 He was also alleged to be using the name "Dr. Samuel Birley", selling the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable[4] and de Morgan refers to him as S. Goulden.[1] He patented a number of inventions including a 'life-preserving cylindrical railway carriage'.

Is this still the truth? People die from cancer all the time, and other diseases. Im sure he cured diseases back in 1850 or so, we just forgot it.

That quote isn't from Earth Not a Globe. It isn't authored by Samuel Birley Rowbotham.

But Robotham uses "zetetics", not science, to realise his conclusions.  For example, chapter 1, verse 9:

"Let the method of simple inquiry--the "Zetetic" process be exclusively adopted--experiments tried and facts collected--not such only as corroborate an already existing state of mind, but of every kind and form bearing on the subject, before a conclusion is drawn, or a conviction affirmed."

Tom, what scientific proof do you have that the earth is flat?

The Zetetic process is a scientific process.

Samuel Rowbotham - A man who claims the earth is flat, and sold "the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable". - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Rowbotham

Why believe him more then nasa, astronots, the russins, china, all of eastern europe, japan, australia, and all the peer reviewed science by people all over the world?

That is libel. Samuel Birley Rowbotham was a Medical Doctor and a Medical Chemist. His drugs treated a number of ailments, but he did not advertise the ability to "cure every disease imaginable."

NASA and Co. have been shown on this forum to be faking their space missions and mismanaging their money. NASA is a proven liar. Samuel Birley Rowbotham is not. This is why he is a more trustworthy source.

Quote from: AndersonG22 on August 08, 2011, 09:06:17 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 08, 2011, 08:44:31 AM

Earth Not a Globe was correct in 1865 and it is correct today. Truth does not have an expiration date.

"If the Earth were a globe, a small model globe would be the very best - because the truest - thing for the navigator to take to sea with him. But such a thing as that is not known: with such a toy as a guide, the mariner would wreck his ship, of a certainty!, This is a proof that Earth is not a globe."

This guy makes arguments, nothing more.

Well, he does make outrageous claims also...

 He was also alleged to be using the name "Dr. Samuel Birley", selling the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable[4] and de Morgan refers to him as S. Goulden.[1] He patented a number of inventions including a 'life-preserving cylindrical railway carriage'.

Is this still the truth? People die from cancer all the time, and other diseases. Im sure he cured diseases back in 1850 or so, we just forgot it.

That quote isn't from Earth Not a Globe. It isn't authored by Samuel Birley Rowbotham.

Quote from: Moon squirter

But Robotham uses "zetetics", not science, to realise his conclusions.  For example, chapter 1, verse 9:

"Let the method of simple inquiry--the "Zetetic" process be exclusively adopted--experiments tried and facts collected--not such only as corroborate an already existing state of mind, but of every kind and form bearing on the subject, before a conclusion is drawn, or a conviction affirmed."

Tom, what scientific proof do you have that the earth is flat?

The Zetetic process is a scientific process.

Quote from: AndersonG22

Samuel Rowbotham - A man who claims the earth is flat, and sold "the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable". - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Rowbotham

Why believe him more then nasa, astronots, the russins, china, all of eastern europe, japan, australia, and all the peer reviewed science by people all over the world?

That is libel. Samuel Birley Rowbotham was a Medical Doctor and a Medical Chemist. His drugs treated a number of ailments, but he did not advertise the ability to "cure every disease imaginable."

NASA and Co. have been shown on this forum to be faking their space missions and mismanaging their money. NASA is a proven liar. Samuel Birley Rowbotham is not. This is why he is a more trustworthy source.

And the Wallace experiments, which put the sighting lines well above the water, so that the light would never come close to the surface?

Also, Why does Rowbotham's measure of the sun's height only give 700 miles, not 3000 miles?

Someday, you'll have to face bendy light.

Quote from: AndersonG22

Samuel Rowbotham - A man who claims the earth is flat, and sold "the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable". - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Rowbotham

Why believe him more then nasa, astronots, the russins, china, all of eastern europe, japan, australia, and all the peer reviewed science by people all over the world?

NASA and Co. have been shown on this forum to be faking their space missions and mismanaging their money. NASA is a proven liar. Samuel Birley Rowbotham is not. This is why he is a more trustworthy source.

You'd base your entire set of beliefs on man whose "proof" is no more than misinterpretation and faulty logic, over a longstanding - goverment agency whose many, many achievements have been verified by third parties? Oh wait, I guess you would. 

also:

In 1861 Rowbotham was married for a second time to the 16-year old daughter of his laundress and settled in London, producing 14 children

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 08, 2011, 09:24:14 AM

Quote from: AndersonG22

Samuel Rowbotham - A man who claims the earth is flat, and sold "the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable". - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Rowbotham

Why believe him more then nasa, astronots, the russins, china, all of eastern europe, japan, australia, and all the peer reviewed science by people all over the world?

NASA and Co. have been shown on this forum to be faking their space missions and mismanaging their money. NASA is a proven liar. Samuel Birley Rowbotham is not. This is why he is a more trustworthy source.

You'd base your entire set of beliefs on man whose "proof" is no more than misinterpretation and faulty logic, over a longstanding - goverment agency whose many, many achievements have been verified by third parties? Oh wait, I guess you would. 

also:

Quote

In 1861 Rowbotham was married for a second time to the 16-year old daughter of his laundress and settled in London, producing 14 children

You forgot  "He was also alleged to be using the name "Dr. Samuel Birley", selling the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable[4] and de Morgan refers to him as S. Goulden.[1] He patented a number of inventions including a 'life-preserving cylindrical railway carriage'."

And the Wallace experiments, which put the sighting lines well above the water, so that the light would never come close to the surface?

That wasn't an impartial experiment. It was a wager for a significant sum of money. If Wallace had lost he would have been in debt to the Flat Earther for many years. He has a strong incentive to rig the experiment or otherwise lie: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49284.msg1219430#msg1219430

Also, Why does Rowbotham's measure of the sun's height only give 700 miles, not 3000 miles

On the earth's distance from the sun Copernicus computed it as 3,391,200 miles, Kepler contradicted him with an estimate of 12,376,800 miles, while Newton had asserted that it did not matter whether it was 28 million or 54 million miles 'for either will do as well'.

also:

Quote

In 1861 Rowbotham was married for a second time to the 16-year old daughter of his laundress and settled in London, producing 14 children

You should envy, not shun, Rowbotham's ability to produce and support 14 strapping children.

You forgot  "He was also alleged to be using the name "Dr. Samuel Birley", selling the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable[4] and de Morgan refers to him as S. Goulden.[1] He patented a number of inventions including a 'life-preserving cylindrical railway carriage'."

Again, Rowbotham did not claim to "cure every disease imaginable." He popularized nutritional supplements and advertised their effectiveness in treating various ailments through the body's own immune system.

Nutritional supplements do prolong human life, and they do treat a wide number of ailments. Rowbotham's claims are not frivolous.

Quote

And the Wallace experiments, which put the sighting lines well above the water, so that the light would never come close to the surface?

That wasn't an impartial experiment. It was a wager for a significant sum of money. If Wallace had lost he would have been in debt to the Flat Earther for many years. He has a strong incentive to rig the experiment or otherwise lie: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49284.msg1219430#msg1219430

Quote

Also, Why does Rowbotham's measure of the sun's height only give 700 miles, not 3000 miles

On the earth's distance from the sun Copernicus computed it as 3,391,200 miles, Kepler contradicted him with an estimate of 12,376,800 miles, while Newton had asserted that it did not matter whether it was 28 million or 54 million miles 'for either will do as well'.

Quote

also:

Quote

In 1861 Rowbotham was married for a second time to the 16-year old daughter of his laundress and settled in London, producing 14 children

You should envy, not shun, Rowbotham's ability to produce and support 14 healthy children.

Quote

You forgot  "He was also alleged to be using the name "Dr. Samuel Birley", selling the secrets for prolonging human life and curing every disease imaginable[4] and de Morgan refers to him as S. Goulden.[1] He patented a number of inventions including a 'life-preserving cylindrical railway carriage'."

Again, Rowbotham did not claim to "cure every disease imaginable." He popularized nutritional supplements and advertised their effectiveness in treating various ailments through the body's own immune system.

Are you a troll who believes in RE but is pretending to believe in FEBS? I think you are, or you did comprehend my post.

Quote

Also, Why does Rowbotham's measure of the sun's height only give 700 miles, not 3000 miles

On the earth's distance from the sun Copernicus computed it as 3,391,200 miles, Kepler contradicted him with an estimate of 12,376,800 miles, while Newton had asserted that it did not matter whether it was 28 million or 54 million miles 'for either will do as well'.

You do know that they worked in ratios? And it's difficult to determine the absolute distance when the suns is so far away?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_unit#History

If the sun were as low as 700-3000 miles, as in the FE model, it would be easy to triangulate, and thus get an accurate hieght. But, as shown, FE models REQUIRE bendy light, inarguably. So the sun's position is out the window.

No theory of FE bendy light exists.
AKA, there's no theory where I could choose two points somewhere and calculate the light path between them.

(well, I have one, but although accurate, you wouldn't like it.)

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 08, 2011, 09:57:16 AM

Quote

Also, Why does Rowbotham's measure of the sun's height only give 700 miles, not 3000 miles

On the earth's distance from the sun Copernicus computed it as 3,391,200 miles, Kepler contradicted him with an estimate of 12,376,800 miles, while Newton had asserted that it did not matter whether it was 28 million or 54 million miles 'for either will do as well'.

You do know that they worked in ratios? And it's difficult to determine the absolute distance when the suns is so far away?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_unit#History

If the sun were as low as 700-3000 miles, as in the FE model, it would be easy to triangulate, and thus get an accurate hieght. But, as shown, FE models REQUIRE bendy light, inarguably. So the sun's position is out the window.

No theory of FE bendy light exists.
AKA, there's no theory where I could choose two points somewhere and calculate the light path between them.

(well, I have one, but although accurate, you wouldn't like it.)

I don't believe in bendy light. Rowbotham's model does not involve bendy light.

You just call it "perspective".

Look out your window. You will see that the earth is flat.

Why argue with him? It mission literally impossible, you cant enlighten him.