Poll

What is your stance on the legality of pregnancy abortion?

Pro-Choice
16 (88.9%)
Pro-Life
2 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: September 04, 2006, 12:59:22 PM

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The Abortion Debate

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Ubuntu

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The Abortion Debate
« on: September 04, 2006, 12:59:22 PM »
Dysfunction and I were had an IM discussion about this subject so I thought it would be a good idea (it's probably not) to have a public debate on the forum.



World Abortion Laws: http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9788/abortionlawsmapvf4.png



To be discussed...

Is abortion ethical? In what cases is it ethical or inethical to abort a fetus?

Is a fetus a person?

Does it matter if a fetus is a person or not?

How legal or illegal should pregnancy be?



Please do not...

Swear excessively or unnecessarily.

Flame participants.

Be disrespectful or uncivil.

Use illogical, irrational, or arbitrary arguments, arguments based on fallacy, or sophistry.


Hopefully this doesn't degenerate into one massive fireball of insults.
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Desu

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2006, 01:01:07 PM »
Already a thread on this, pal.
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cadmium_blimp

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2006, 02:49:15 PM »
No undecided option?
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Cillian

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2006, 02:51:22 PM »
This is just black and white.
Personally I think anything past the 6 weeks mark is murder.
So it only should be legal within the first 6 weeks of pregnancy.
After the 6 week mark nerves start to develop, so you are inflicting pain on the infant.
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Ubuntu

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2006, 02:54:46 PM »
Quote from: "Cillian"
This is just black and white.
Personally I think anything past the 6 weeks mark is murder.
So it only should be legal within the first 6 weeks of pregnancy.
After the 6 week mark nerves start to develop, so you are inflicting pain on the infant.


I think abortions should be performed before the fetus has a brain.
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The_Earth_Does_Not_Exist

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2006, 03:48:14 PM »
Quote from: "Cillian"
This is just black and white.
Personally I think anything past the 6 weeks mark is murder.
So it only should be legal within the first 6 weeks of pregnancy.
After the 6 week mark nerves start to develop, so you are inflicting pain on the infant.

I agree with this.
Up untill a certain point, i think abortion is acceptable.
6 weeks you say.
To be safe, i would make the mark at 4 or even 3.
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Ubuntu

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2006, 03:53:21 PM »
Quote from: "The_Earth_Does_Not_Exist"
Quote from: "Cillian"
This is just black and white.
Personally I think anything past the 6 weeks mark is murder.
So it only should be legal within the first 6 weeks of pregnancy.
After the 6 week mark nerves start to develop, so you are inflicting pain on the infant.

I agree with this.
Up untill a certain point, i think abortion is acceptable.
6 weeks you say.
To be safe, i would make the mark at 4 or even 3.


I think it typically takes about a month for a woman to discover that she's pregnant.
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The_Earth_Does_Not_Exist

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2006, 03:57:03 PM »
hmm.... yah your right. Well, still 4-5 weeks isnt to bad. still shoudl be safe.
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Ubuntu

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2006, 04:04:09 PM »
Quote from: "The_Earth_Does_Not_Exist"
hmm.... yah your right. Well, still 4-5 weeks isnt to bad. still shoudl be safe.


I think it should have to do with fetal development rather than time -- as in one point: the brain's creation.
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The_Earth_Does_Not_Exist

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2006, 04:11:48 PM »
ok, yes. Well, you know what i mean. I mean what you mean. The development of the brain... yah.
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Ubuntu

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2006, 04:32:42 PM »
Quote from: "The_Earth_Does_Not_Exist"
ok, yes. Well, you know what i mean. I mean what you mean. The development of the brain... yah.


Whenever that is.  :?
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Mephistopheles

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2006, 04:57:25 PM »
Abortion does not sit well with me, but I realize that it would happen reguardless of the circumstance.

I am under the impression that often times people create their own misfortune by looking at everything with futility.  Either way, such is life, and its not always pretty.

If it absolutely has to be done, I agree with Ubuntu.  But I have to confine myself to this belief so long as some extreme harm would befall the mother or child in a physical or psychological manner.

The problem is, pro-choice will be abused.  It simply will.  People have lost their sense of responsibility here in America in this day and age.  I do not have the experience in other countries, but it is unsettling to me here.  I read stories of young(18) mothers aborting due to the thought of raising a child to be questionable.  I have read stories where the carelessness of two people results in the death of a third.  I find it disgusting and unpaletable to condone.

I, however, do not believe that abortion can be used in a civilized manner until we rid ourselves of any notion that abortion can be used in any way other than the absolute final choice.
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cadmium_blimp

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2006, 05:03:10 PM »
Abortion definitely should never be taken lightly.  A person may or may not regret an abortion.  I highly doubt someone will regret not aborting.  To actually think something like that about one's child would be quite disturbing, in my opinion.  In fact, the only reason I can even imagine that a person would regret not aborting would be if the child were the product of a rape.
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Rick_James

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2006, 06:23:53 PM »
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
I read stories of young(18) mothers aborting due to the thought of raising a child to be questionable.  I have read stories where the carelessness of two people results in the death of a third.  I find it disgusting and unpaletable to condone.


Unfortunately, I don't think they question your motives down at the abortion clinic (and really, if they did it defeats the purpose of pro-choice). There will always be a small percentage of people that do the wrong thing - but that's the same in everything in life. I don't think this should influence your opinion on abortion any more than Speeding Drivers should influence your opinion of cars.
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quixotic

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2006, 06:53:47 PM »
O M G ! ! ! !
 

Dont get me started again!!!

Its not healthy!!!
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Rick_James

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2006, 07:04:54 PM »
Quote from: "quixotic"
O M G ! ! ! !
 

Dont get me started again!!!

Its not healthy!!!


Yea, isn't the thread in Alternative Science enough?
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Northrider5

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2006, 04:34:42 AM »
We best not unleash the mighty wrath of quixotic. BTW the way quix, I totally respect your experience in this matter, but I'll have to go pro-life. Please don't flame quix, if my assumptions on the matter anger you, I deeply apologize. Sorry.
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bsman

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2006, 11:16:05 AM »
I think if your going to get an abortion you should donate it to stem cell research atleast make it useful
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CrimsonKing

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2006, 02:24:14 PM »
I am pro-choice, only because i think as far as teh child is concerned, its better to not be born that to be born into a home that doesn't want you
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The Demon Lord

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2006, 11:05:58 PM »
until the feotus is capable of surviving outside the womb, IMO it is not a seperate entity, it is still a parasite, and so can be killed.
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Mephistopheles

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2006, 12:40:46 PM »
Quote from: "The Demon Lord"
until the feotus is capable of surviving outside the womb, IMO it is not a seperate entity, it is still a parasite, and so can be killed.


That is absurd.
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dysfunction

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2006, 01:31:56 PM »
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
Quote from: "The Demon Lord"
until the feotus is capable of surviving outside the womb, IMO it is not a seperate entity, it is still a parasite, and so can be killed.


That is absurd.


I agree.
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cadmium_blimp

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2006, 01:40:34 PM »
Technically, the baby (fetus or whatever you want to call it) still can't survive on its own outside the womb.  Still a parasite?  I think not and doubt it can really be considered one.  I kill parasites because they suck my blood.  However, the symbiotic bacteria in my digestive tract is cool.
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CrimsonKing

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2006, 02:27:46 PM »
well techincally, it is a parasite, as it causes no good effects in the "afflicted" person.  It came origionally from outside the body in the form of sperm, and it steals blood, food, and enzymes from the "host" body.
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Mephistopheles

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2006, 04:15:19 PM »
Are we not parasites then?  What do we give back to the land that we take from it?
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quixotic

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2006, 06:30:53 PM »
our shit and piss of course....

its a big cycle

and we did not come from the land...bit different
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cadmium_blimp

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2006, 07:55:54 PM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
well techincally, it is a parasite, as it causes no good effects in the "afflicted" person.  It came origionally from outside the body in the form of sperm, and it steals blood, food, and enzymes from the "host" body.

I disagree.  Though the returns aren't immediate, someone has to support mama while she's old and in the nursing home.   :D
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CrimsonKing

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2006, 08:10:57 PM »
so its not biologically garenteed.
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The_Earth_Does_Not_Exist

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2006, 08:27:41 PM »
Yah. I guess technicly a baby would be a parasite. But then again, so are we. We dont realy give very much back to the earth at all. We deffenly use more than we give back. (we are feeding off the earth)

This doesnt just include food. What about gas for your car?
You cant give that back to the earth.
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cadmium_blimp

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The Abortion Debate
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2006, 08:30:13 PM »
So has the earth tried to abort us yet?
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