Will Anyone Else Miss FET?

All that remains is for this to actually happen, and for them to get away with it!

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 19, 2011, 08:56:06 PM

I think we've adequately covered all of this. Anything not directly dealt with has been covered by extension. My reasoning is irrefutable; it is plain stubbornness to keep believing in this hoax.

Ego much?

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 19, 2011, 08:56:06 PM

I think we've adequately covered all of this. Anything not directly dealt with has been covered by extension. My reasoning is irrefutable; it is plain stubbornness to keep believing in this hoax.

You've covered individual phases of the flight plan, not the flight plan from start to finish.  Also, you "reasoning" is nothing but pure speculation (that is unless you are in on the hoax).

your "reasoning" is nothing but pure speculation

Speculation based on the strictest, and thereby most compelling, principles of reasoning.

Why would I be revealing the Conspiracy's scheme if I'm part of the Conspiracy?

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 20, 2011, 01:12:22 PM

Why would I be revealing the Conspiracy's scheme if I'm part of the Conspiracy?

Since you seem to be pretty sure of the mechanics of Virgin Galactic's "hoax", I'd say that you've given too much away already.  Be gone, conspirator! 

Quote from: markjo on January 20, 2011, 02:26:13 PM

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 20, 2011, 01:12:22 PM

Why would I be revealing the Conspiracy's scheme if I'm part of the Conspiracy?

Since you seem to be pretty sure of the mechanics of Virgin Galactic's "hoax", I'd say that you've given too much away already.  Be gone, conspirator! 

Perhaps I am FES's inside man, working for the Conspiracy to supply FES with vital info. Had that occurred to you?

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 20, 2011, 11:51:37 PM

Quote from: markjo on January 20, 2011, 02:26:13 PM

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 20, 2011, 01:12:22 PM

Why would I be revealing the Conspiracy's scheme if I'm part of the Conspiracy?

Since you seem to be pretty sure of the mechanics of Virgin Galactic's "hoax", I'd say that you've given too much away already.  Be gone, conspirator! 

Perhaps I am FES's inside man, working for the Conspiracy to supply FES with vital info. Had that occurred to you?

Wouldn't you have been dead by now?

I was just browsing the forum when I saw this thread and felt compelled to point out a fact that everybody here disappointingly seems to have missed. Thus, I registered and here I am!

The fact that I would like to point out is that a skydive simulator using wind/fans cannot in any way ever convincingly simulate free fall

My reasoning is as follows,

In sky-diving, or the simulation thereof, you do not simply "float around". Sky-diving is not easy, and it takes training to do it safely. The most minor twist in your angle compared to the wind will cause you to move, in some cases dangerously so. For those without the power of imagination to simulate the case I describe, let me show you:

Case 1: A man in virtual free fall. He's fine, everything works, doesn't it? No, because now we move down to..

Case 2: The man shifts his angle 45 degrees, the air presses against him in a wildly different fashion and he slams into the wall. Ouch. I wonder what would happen were he to shift a further 45 degrees..

Case 3: If you will forgive the comical interpretation, I should say that it's obvious that free fall simply cannot be simulated in this fashion



If we take another case, where he is in effective free-fall when horizontal, if he shifts his angle 90 degrees he would simply fall down to either get hacked to pieces by the fan mechanism, or if security measures were in place, fall down onto the fan and consequently feel gravity when he isn't supposed to.

It comes to mind that you might then point out that you could simply have the entire simulation capsule in free-fall, but this is not the case either. The only way to do that would be to have the capsule fall for several minutes uninterrupted either by dropping it from very high up, or dropping it down a very, very deep hole. Of course, I shouldn't have to explain why neither of these are even remotely feasible.

Your concern is valid, however Virgin will counteract these forces using electromagnetism. The passengers' suits are electro-magnetised and covered in sensors. The walls and ceiling are also electro-magnetised. Any time a passenger begins to become propelled to one side, the magnets inside the suit and on the walls are activated accordingly. Thus, the passenger is kept in a state of equilibrium.

Even if you -could- prove that, which you can't, it's of no matter since I disproved your electromagnetic theory. You'll have to come up with something that doesn't involve a wind tunnel before it has even a remote chance of working I'm afraid.

You still don't get it, do you?  Skydiving and weightlessness are two completely different experiences.  The only way to accurately simulate weightlessness is with free fall.

Quote from: markjo on January 25, 2011, 07:24:53 AM

You still don't get it, do you?  Skydiving and weightlessness are two completely different experiences.  The only way to accurately simulate weightlessness is with free fall.

Again, Virgin's system is such that all forces will effectively cancel each other out. Thus, the passengers will feel no force acting upon themselves. Does this not sound familiar? For all intents and purposes, the sensation is identical.

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 25, 2011, 07:35:22 AM

Quote from: markjo on January 25, 2011, 07:24:53 AM

You still don't get it, do you?  Skydiving and weightlessness are two completely different experiences.  The only way to accurately simulate weightlessness is with free fall.

Again, Virgin's system is such that all forces will effectively cancel each other out. Thus, the passengers will feel no force acting upon themselves. Does this not sound familiar? For all intents and purposes, the sensation is identical.

But the passengers will feel forces.  Heavy acceleration on the way up, several minutes of weightlessness and then heavy deceleration on the way down.  The easiest way for Virgin Galactic to do this is by doing exactly what they say that they will be doing.  That is, launching the passengers into a 100 mile parabolic trajectory.  To me that sounds a whole lot easier than inventing all of this exotic technology to simulate the experience.

But you haven't disproved anything. You'll have to come up with more than baseless speculations, I'm afraid.

Quote from: silver on January 25, 2011, 07:14:41 AM

-snip-

But you haven't disproved anything. You'll have to come up with more than baseless speculations, I'm afraid.

But I haven't proved anything. I'll have to come up with more than baseless speculations, I'm afraid.

Even if we ignore the fact that such a system is virtually impossible to create due to magnetic fields that would intersect and jumble together when people move among each other, AND if we ignore the fact that all electronic equipment nearby would be utterly destroyed, AND if we ignore the fact that constructing such an extraordinary system would be far more expensive than actually developing the spaceplanes...

...and how in fact can you even imagine that suits that thin can shield someone completely from winds moving in excess of 100 MPH? (terminal velocity)

Quote from: markjo on January 25, 2011, 07:24:53 AM

-snip-

Again, Virgin's system is such that all forces will effectively cancel each other out. Thus, the passengers will feel no force acting upon themselves. Does this not sound familiar? For all intents and purposes, the sensation is identical.

Quote from: markjo on January 25, 2011, 07:40:00 AM

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 25, 2011, 07:35:22 AM

Quote from: markjo on January 25, 2011, 07:24:53 AM

You still don't get it, do you?  Skydiving and weightlessness are two completely different experiences.  The only way to accurately simulate weightlessness is with free fall.

Again, Virgin's system is such that all forces will effectively cancel each other out. Thus, the passengers will feel no force acting upon themselves. Does this not sound familiar? For all intents and purposes, the sensation is identical.

But the passengers will feel forces.  Heavy acceleration on the way up, several minutes of weightlessness and then heavy deceleration on the way down.  The easiest way for Virgin Galactic to do this is by doing exactly what they say that they will be doing.  That is, launching the passengers into a 100 mile parabolic trajectory.  To me that sounds a whole lot easier than inventing all of this exotic technology to simulate the experience.

Are you suggesting launching a spacecraft into FET space?

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 25, 2011, 07:28:17 AM

But you haven't disproved anything. You'll have to come up with more than baseless speculations, I'm afraid.

How ironic...

Even if we ignore the fact that such a system is virtually impossible to create due to magnetic fields that would intersect and jumble together when people move among each other, AND if we ignore the fact that all electronic equipment nearby would be utterly destroyed, AND if we ignore the fact that constructing such an extraordinary system would be far more expensive than actually developing the spaceplanes...

In regard to the first part, you totally ignored that part of my post. A habit that you seem to be quite fond of. Let me tell you one thing, to only refute part of an opposing argument and then ignore the rest to look like you're winning the argument is a really bad stategy, and merely shows how desperate you are to win the argument and not actually finding out what is correct. To prove that you read this part of my post, write "I read that part" when you respond next. As to the last part, I have yet to see any proof of why they would suddenly switch out the suits they have been advertising with all this time for something else.

Let's assume for a second that the suit blocks all outside sensations, and that the magnetic field keeps people in place and moving exactly like they would in zero gravity. Would this feel like zero gravity to the people inside? No. The suit is kept up by the wind, and the people are kept up by the suit, we agree on that yes? People inside the suit would still experience gravity. There is no effective difference to "floating around" inside the suit, or standing on the ground. People are still being pulled down by gravity -inside- the suit, and since the suit is holding them up, they would experience being pressed down in the suit, regardless of them being stationary in the air.

The red statements are nothing but wild conjectures. I do not wish to involve myself in wild conjectures, hence I have ignored them until you can begin to justify them. As for the blue statement: the cabin is not a real ship so there is no significant electronic equipment on board.

To resort to a pile of ad hominems is a really bad strategy too. Perhaps you should instead engage in reasoned discussion like a grown-up. Also, how exactly does writing 'I read that' somehow 'prove' that I read it?

How cavernous do you suppose these suits are? The passengers will not be rolling around in them; they will be a snug fit.

Quote from: IOA on January 25, 2011, 08:39:54 AM

Quote from: fluffycornsnake on January 25, 2011, 07:28:17 AM

But you haven't disproved anything. You'll have to come up with more than baseless speculations, I'm afraid.

How ironic...

I cannot possibly see what is ironic about this.

Quote from: silver on January 25, 2011, 05:51:56 AM

Even if we ignore the fact that such a system is virtually impossible to create due to magnetic fields that would intersect and jumble together when people move among each other, AND if we ignore the fact that all electronic equipment nearby would be utterly destroyed, AND if we ignore the fact that constructing such an extraordinary system would be far more expensive than actually developing the spaceplanes...

The red statements are nothing but wild conjectures. I do not wish to involve myself in wild conjectures, hence I have ignored them until you can begin to justify them. As for the blue statement: the cabin is not a real ship so there is no significant electronic equipment on board.

Sub-orbital space flight (such as that proposed by Virgin Galactic) is perfectly compatible with FET. 

Sub-orbital space flight (such as that proposed by Virgin Galactic) is perfectly compatible with FET. 

Would you like me to quote almost every single post you've made in this thread with red color? You haven't made a single conspiracy statement in this thread that wasn't wild conjecture.

Speculation based on the strictest, and thereby most compelling, principles of reasoning.

It was not 'wild conjecture', it was simple logic. Not a fact, but a very high probability; magnetic fields would have to criss-cross across the entire cabin to try and counter these wind forces. From my personal experience with magnets, this will pretty much render such a contraption impossible or ludicrously hard to build.

Snug fit or not, so long as gravity is pulling them down and the suit is holding them up, gravity will be felt. As was stated previously, the only way to accurately simulate zero gravity is in effective free fall.

Can you think of or imagine anything at all that would convince you that you are wrong in this case?

Can you think of or imagine anything at all that would convince you that you are wrong in this case?