Poll

Who's an organ donor?

Organ Donor
27 (71.1%)
Not an Organ Donor
11 (28.9%)

Total Members Voted: 37

« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Who's an organ donor?

  • 97 Replies
  • 12402 Views
*

ﮎingulaЯiτy

  • Arbitrator
  • 9054
  • +0/-0
  • Resident atheist.
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2010, 02:07:10 PM »
Quote from: Blanko on December 05, 2010, 01:51:49 PM
I really don't know what the policy is concerning organ donation here.
As you might have guessed, I don't either.  :-\

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 05, 2010, 01:45:30 PM
Quote from: Chris Spaghetti on December 05, 2010, 01:39:27 PM
There are many more stories about people's lives being saved from organ donors. I'll take the chance that I might do some good after I die rather than the slim chance I get handed to Doctor Burke

Some years ago I read accounts from doctors who were faced with ethical dilemmas as the clock counted down when trying to revive a patient. They are on an extreme time limit between when you die and when the harvesting process must begin for the organs to be viable.

While I wouldn't mind being an organ donor, it's the extreme time limit which sways my decision.

I just wouldn't want to take that chance.

Your stories are the product of rationalizations by those who are uncomfortable with the emotional thought of giving up their organs. There is no rational reason to adopt this perspective based on these perpetuated myths.
To expand on Trekky's point of lack of motivation, doctors will not the risk the life of someone they are working on foar the chance to put an organ on the market that will probably help an anonymous person elsewhere. You can be aware of a problem (organ's are needed elsewhere), but the close, obvious, and personal problems will always weigh more heavily. (the patient they see in front of them)

When people see a dying puppy on the street, their hearts break for it. Millions of people die awful deaths each day all over the world, and people live out their lives with little to no impact. Yet this is not even a competition for deciding who to help. Anonymity is a powerful and constant deterrent from favoritism. If all the starving children in Africa were as important to you as a puppy, you could not function as a human being. It sounds cold, but it's true. Doctor's don't want to see their patients die any more than the next person.

Quote from: Muphci on December 05, 2010, 01:58:24 PM
I would have to agree with the opt-in deal, but if the percentage that would but don't have cards is that high, then I think it's fine. Besides, if someone cares enough about it to say no, they're probably paying attention to what they have to do to say no.

Perhaps we could maintain the element of choice, but still boost the numbers slightly with an opt-out system...

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on December 05, 2010, 01:56:18 PM
It seems the reasoning they gave was that 90% of Finns would give donate their organs but only 20% have the organ donor cards and there's an organ shortage or something like that
I believe there is an organ shortage 'everywhere'.
It is a primal and universal instinct to want to keep them.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 02:10:02 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
Logged
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.
*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18033
  • +6/-9
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2010, 02:14:21 PM »
Quote from: Trekky0623 on December 05, 2010, 01:51:02 PM
The incentive simply isn't there. The doctor gets paid for saving lives, not giving the surgeon a job so that the doctor might be able to tell another patient that they got their transplant. No, the average doctor is not going to harvest organs until the patient is dead.

See: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/17/AR2007031700963.html

    New Trend in Organ Donation Raises Questions
    As Alternative Approach Becomes More Frequent, Doctors Worry That It Puts Donors at Risk

    The number of kidneys, livers and other body parts surgeons are harvesting through a controversial approach to organ donation has started to rise rapidly, a trend that is saving the lives of more waiting patients but, some say, risks sacrificing the interests of the donors.

    Under the procedure, surgeons are removing organs within minutes after the heart stops beating and doctors declare a patient dead. Since the 1970s, most organs have been removed only after doctors declared a patient brain dead.

    Some doctors and bioethicists say the practice raises the disturbing specter of transplant surgeons preying on dying patients for their organs, possibly pressuring doctors and families to discontinue treatment, adversely affecting donors' care in their final days and even hastening their deaths.

    ....

    The approach, known as "donation after cardiac death" (DCD), usually involves patients who have suffered brain damage, such as from a car accident or a stroke. After family members have made the difficult decision to discontinue a ventilator or other life-sustaining treatment, organ-bank representatives talk to them about donation.

    Sometimes, the donor is suffering from an incurable disorder such as Lou Gehrig's disease and wants to donate his or her organs after deciding to forgo further care.

    Once the decision has been made, a transplant team waits nearby so surgeons can begin removing organs soon after the heart stops. Because the heart can sometimes restart spontaneously, doctors wait a few minutes after pronouncing death before allowing the surgeons to begin. If the heart does not stop quickly, usually within an hour, the procedure is aborted and the patient is taken back to his or her room until death comes.

    The practice was the norm before brain death became the standard for pronouncing death in the early 1970s and surgeons began keeping the donor's body functioning with life-support machinery until transplantation could begin. When surgeons resurrected what was then called "non-beating heart" donation in the 1990s, critics called it ghoulish and said it raised a host of ethical questions. Some called it tantamount to murder.

    ....

    But many experts remain concerned and worry that the practice blurs the definition of death.

    "The person is not dead yet," said Jerry A. Menikoff, an associate professor of law, ethics and medicine at the University of Kansas. "They are going to be dead, but we should be honest and say that we're starting to remove the organs a few minutes before they meet the legal definition of death."

See: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/12/AR2007091202681.html?sid=ST2008032103015

    At Emanuel Medical Center in Turlock, Calif., neurologist Narges Pazouki said an OPO representative pressed her this summer to declare a patient brain-dead before the appropriate tests had been done.

    "I told them, 'It's too soon for you to be involved. Let us do our job,' " Pazouki said.

    In many hospitals, organ network representatives now routinely comb through patients' records looking for potential donors.

    "It's like they're vultures flying around the hospitals hovering over beds waiting for them to die so they can grab the organs," said Michael Grodin, a Boston University bioethicist. "That's the impression you get sometimes."

    ....

    "This is what we've been worrying about," said Michael A. DeVita, a University of Pittsburgh critical care specialist. "If you promote organ donation too much, people lose sight that it's a dying patient there. It's not just a source of organs. It's a person."
    ....

    Critics also worry about how OPO representatives interact with families reeling from the impending death of a loved one. Some representatives delay identifying their role, either initially letting families assume they are part of the hospital staff or being vague, saying only that they are "end-of-life" or "grief" counselors.

    "In some places, the organ-procurement folks will actually go into the room and meet the family and wear scrubs that are the same color as the hospital personnel and allow themselves to be experienced by the family as being members of the hospital staff," said Daniel O. Dugan, a bioethicist who advises hospitals in California and Illinois. "They will introduce themselves and build a kind of rapport when actually their whole agenda is organ procurement."

    Once they have made their role clear, many organ procurers use what some consider a high-pressure pitch. In what is known as the "dual advocacy" approach, OPO representatives are increasingly trained to try to persuade families to consent by describing dying patients desperate for organs. They also take a "presumptive" approach that assumes the family would want to donate.

    "They can definitely get overzealous at times," said Eric Gluck, director of critical care services at the Swedish Covenant Hospital in Chicago. "I have seen these guys come in and almost browbeat families into submission to get them to donate organs."
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 02:20:45 PM by Tom Bishop »
Logged
*

Trekky0623

  • Official Member
  • 10045
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2010, 02:17:17 PM »
Logged
*

ﮎingulaЯiτy

  • Arbitrator
  • 9054
  • +0/-0
  • Resident atheist.
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2010, 02:26:08 PM »
Tom, if you're argument is hearsay, that fits my conclusions that these myths are rationalizations of the people with emotional disincentives.

Quote
[...]but, some say, risks sacrificing the interests of the donors.
Surely you recognize the flawed form?

Quote
The approach, known as "donation after cardiac death" (DCD), usually involves patients who have suffered brain damage, such as from a car accident or a stroke. After family members have made the difficult decision to discontinue a ventilator or other life-sustaining treatment, organ-bank representatives talk to them about donation.
So you're admitting they're dead regardless of the choice to donate?

Quote
Sometimes, the donor is suffering from an incurable disorder such as Lou Gehrig's disease and wants to donate his or her organs after deciding to forgo further care.
Again, they're dead regardless of the choice to donate. This appears to only be criticizing the requests of patients for a "do not resuscitate" order.

Quote
"It's like they're vultures flying around the hospitals hovering over beds waiting for them to die so they can grab the organs," said Michael Grodin, a Boston University bioethicist. "That's the impression you get sometimes."
His impression is not a rational nor empirical way to develop conclusions.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 02:28:36 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
Logged
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.
*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65234
  • +17/-49
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2010, 02:27:56 PM »
The person has to brain dead here before the organs can be harvested
Logged
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?
?

Muphci

  • 4410
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2010, 02:34:34 PM »
Just think: how would you feel if you were in dire need of a kidney or a liver and there was none available?
Logged
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on March 31, 2011, 02:53:31 PM
There is no such thing as no time for fisting.
*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18033
  • +6/-9
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2010, 02:40:30 PM »
Quote from: Muphci on December 05, 2010, 02:34:34 PM
Just think: how would you feel if you were in dire need of a kidney or a liver and there was none available?

How would you feel if your mother had a heart attack and the doctors got to her a little late and instead of giving their all to resuscitate her they said screw it and started cutting her up for organs?
Logged
*

Trekky0623

  • Official Member
  • 10045
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2010, 02:42:27 PM »
Let's not appeal to emotion, please? These analogies are retarded.

Anyway, the fact is the sources Tom gave are biased beyond belief. If doctors do that, then very few do, and it's no reason to not donate organs. It'd be like not driving a car because you're afraid it might crash.
Logged
*

ﮎingulaЯiτy

  • Arbitrator
  • 9054
  • +0/-0
  • Resident atheist.
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2010, 03:27:28 PM »
Not to mention that if for some bizarre reason, there are a couple sociopath doctors out there weren't committed to the lives of their patients, yet were interested in the possible lives of anonymous people, there is the added disincentive of damaging their success record.

Quote from: Muphci on December 05, 2010, 01:52:38 PM
LOOK IT UP AND SAVE SOME LIVES, DAMMIT.
Reported for advocating suicide after becoming a donor.  ;)
Logged
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.
?

Muphci

  • 4410
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2010, 03:34:36 PM »
:P
Logged
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on March 31, 2011, 02:53:31 PM
There is no such thing as no time for fisting.
*

Masterchef

  • 3894
  • +0/-0
  • Rabble rabble rabble
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2010, 04:36:17 PM »
Organ donors contribute to overpopulation. You people make me sick. >:(
Logged
?

Thork

Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2010, 06:01:35 PM »
Depends how I die. If I die in a plane or a car, I think I am an organ donor as I said yes with both insurances or licences (Its late, can't remember which one had the box to tick. Is it with insurance or license issue ???).Anyway I think if I am run-over in the street, I am not a donor, as I don't have a card, so they wouldn't know. Its one of those things I should really sort out.
Logged
*

optimisticcynic

  • 2194
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2010, 06:23:25 PM »
Quote from: Trekky0623 on December 05, 2010, 01:54:52 PM
I think organ donation should always be opt in. My organs are my property; please do not use them unless I give permission.
I am not sure if you are serious or not. however I am fairly sure that stuff isn't considered your property if you are dead.
Logged
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.
*

Trekky0623

  • Official Member
  • 10045
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2010, 06:29:23 PM »
Quote from: optimisticcynic on December 05, 2010, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: Trekky0623 on December 05, 2010, 01:54:52 PM
I think organ donation should always be opt in. My organs are my property; please do not use them unless I give permission.
I am not sure if you are serious or not. however I am fairly sure that stuff isn't considered your property if you are dead.

It's a show of respect. If I stated in my will that the world can go fuck itself and that all my clothes should be burned under a full moon to the moon goddess of lust, I would expect my wishes to be fulfilled. Similarly, please don't use my organs unless I say you can.
Logged
*

optimisticcynic

  • 2194
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2010, 06:45:58 PM »
Quote from: Trekky0623 on December 05, 2010, 06:29:23 PM
Quote from: optimisticcynic on December 05, 2010, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: Trekky0623 on December 05, 2010, 01:54:52 PM
I think organ donation should always be opt in. My organs are my property; please do not use them unless I give permission.
I am not sure if you are serious or not. however I am fairly sure that stuff isn't considered your property if you are dead.

It's a show of respect. If I stated in my will that the world can go fuck itself and that all my clothes should be burned under a full moon to the moon goddess of lust, I would expect my wishes to be fulfilled. Similarly, please don't use my organs unless I say you can.
you just made a point. If you said all your clothes should be burned then yes they should be. but do you think all your items should be buried with you if you have no will?
Logged
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.
?

General Disarray

  • Official Member
  • 5032
  • +0/-0
  • Magic specialist
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2010, 07:07:38 PM »
I don't recall the option when I was getting my driver's license, but if it was there, I checked it. Getting it renewed next year, will check then.

I only need my organs when I'm using them.
Logged
Quote from: Thork on April 02, 2012, 01:56:05 AM
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.
*

Benjamin Franklin

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 12960
  • +0/-0
  • The dopest founding father.
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2010, 08:38:41 PM »
I donate other people's organs.
Logged
?

Lorddave

  • 19890
  • +30/-61
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2010, 08:47:34 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 05, 2010, 01:45:30 PM
Quote from: Chris Spaghetti on December 05, 2010, 01:39:27 PM
There are many more stories about people's lives being saved from organ donors. I'll take the chance that I might do some good after I die rather than the slim chance I get handed to Doctor Burke

Some years ago I read accounts from doctors who were faced with ethical dilemmas as the clock counted down when trying to revive a patient. They are on an extreme time limit between when you die and when the harvesting process must begin for the organs to be viable.

While I wouldn't mind being an organ donor, it's the extreme time limit which sways my decision.

I just wouldn't want to take that chance.

Just out of curiosity, did that article mention when a doctor would attempt a revival?
Logged
Gone.
?

Mrs. Peach

  • Official Member
  • 6229
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2010, 09:58:31 PM »
In reality, I don't think it matters if you've checked the option or not.  The next of kin has the say anyway; he/she/they become the owners of your poor dead body.  It does, however, let your relatives know your wishes.  No next of kin?  Ghouls appear and strip everything.
Logged
*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65234
  • +17/-49
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2010, 01:10:41 AM »
Quote from: Mrs. Peach on December 05, 2010, 09:58:31 PM
In reality, I don't think it matters if you've checked the option or not.  The next of kin has the say anyway; he/she/they become the owners of your poor dead body.  It does, however, let your relatives know your wishes.  No next of kin?  Ghouls appear and strip everything.

The opt-out thing here takes away the need for next of kin to decide, except in the case of underage people or adults who were in care.
Logged
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?
?

sherman t tank

  • 253
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2010, 02:03:23 AM »
I have provisions to have every part of me used for the " amusement of medical students".  I have stipulations written in that ensure my guts will be used as skipping ropes and my skull will be used for poor Shakespeare skits. I have written this in legally though the recipient university sent a letter to my next of kin( my four year old daughter) ensuring them that my remains were treated with the greatest of dignity, to the betterment of mankind. All this hopefully(many) years before they actually take possesion of me.   
Logged
*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • 45167
  • +98/-138
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2010, 06:43:16 AM »
Umm...  You guys do realize that you can certain donate organs while you're still alive, don't you?  Kidneys and bone marrow, for the most part, are donated while the donor is still alive.
Logged
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
*

ﮎingulaЯiτy

  • Arbitrator
  • 9054
  • +0/-0
  • Resident atheist.
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2010, 09:08:06 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 05, 2010, 02:40:30 PM
Quote from: Muphci on December 05, 2010, 02:34:34 PM
Just think: how would you feel if you were in dire need of a kidney or a liver and there was none available?

How would you feel if your mother had a heart attack and the doctors got to her a little late and instead of giving their all to resuscitate her they said screw it and started cutting her up for organs?

Muphci's scenario is a confirmed reality.

You need to demonstrate that yours has any actual relation to reality for it to be a legitimate comparison. When there is no demonstrable connection to reality, the analogy loses all weight in an argument. To illustrate, you could have also said "How would you feel if Al Qaeda selectively killed organ donors, and you were killed for being one?" It simply is a nonsense argument both ways because both are only highly speculative scenarios, not demonstrably real problems.
Logged
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.
?

Nomad

  • Official Member
  • 16894
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2010, 11:23:49 AM »
I'm a donor.
Logged
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on March 24, 2011, 11:05:27 AM
Nomad is a superhero.

8/30 NEVAR FORGET
?

k.anderson3454

Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2010, 04:36:20 PM »
I want to be but i still have a had time deciding.maybe soon.:)
Logged
*

Trekky0623

  • Official Member
  • 10045
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2010, 04:40:13 PM »
Quote from: k.anderson3454 on December 06, 2010, 04:36:20 PM
I want to be but i still have a had time deciding.maybe soon.:)

FIRST POST OF AWESOME.
Logged
?

Christianrocker90

  • 3132
  • +0/-0
  • Rays Republic
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2010, 05:06:17 PM »
* Christianrocker90 is a organ donor.
Logged
*

Trekky0623

  • Official Member
  • 10045
  • +0/-0
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2010, 05:13:55 PM »
Quote from: Christianrocker90 on December 06, 2010, 05:06:17 PM
* Christianrocker90 is a organ donor.

Trekky also enjoys the third person.
Logged
*

WardoggKC130FE

  • 11833
  • +0/-0
  • What website is that? MadeUpMonkeyShit.com?
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2010, 05:17:37 PM »
Not.  I smoke and drink, no one would want mine anyway.
Logged
*

Lord Wilmore

  • Vice President
  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 12086
  • +3/-3
Re: Who's an organ donor?
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2010, 07:19:25 PM »
I intend to donate all my body to medical science. However, I just haven't got around to getting all the witness papers etc. signed. It's important you do that, because if it isn't in writing families often do whatever the hell they feel like, even if they know that's what you wanted to do.
Logged
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
« previous next »