Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH

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deathsink

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Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« on: October 01, 2010, 01:43:39 PM »
The Flat Earth Hypothesis states that the Sun is 32 miles in diameter and ~3200 miles away.
As the sun is only so big, it cannot be driven by any known nuclear process.
In reality, the sun radiates thermal energy as a temperature of ~5000K according to


I challenge any person who subscribes to FEH, to come up with a working model of how the Sun works, its surface temperature, what it is made of, etc. Keep in mind, it should obey

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General Disarray

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You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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deathsink

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2010, 04:15:28 PM »
Please reference:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=42826.0
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=42890.0

They go over this in more detail.

You mean the thread where James refuses to acknowledge the Stefan-Boltzmann law?

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2010, 07:29:24 PM »
The sun is likely a dense ball of degenerate gas that is still in the process of cooling.
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

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ClockTower

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2010, 07:43:04 PM »
The sun is likely a dense ball of degenerate gas that is still in the process of cooling.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that this is likely, or even possible?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2010, 08:09:19 PM »
The sun is likely a dense ball of degenerate gas that is still in the process of cooling.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that this is likely, or even possible?

Using an estimated value of the solar luminosity assuming the black body law and estimated distance to the sun gives an energy loss rate.  Estimating the specific heat capacity of the sun as that of an ideal gas (an awful approximation, but it shows the plausibility), one can estimate the needed density of sun if the energy loss isn't to lead to a significant change in temperature change over ~4.5 billion years. (A big change in solar temperature would change the solar spectrum, meaning plants wouldn't be able to photosynthesize.) This turns out to be a huge number comparable to the estimates of density in RET white dwarfs and neutron stars.  Thus, we are lead to the conclusion that the sun is composed of very dense matter (assuming it doesn't have a power source of its own).
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

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ClockTower

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2010, 08:12:13 PM »
The sun is likely a dense ball of degenerate gas that is still in the process of cooling.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that this is likely, or even possible?

Using an estimated value of the solar luminosity assuming the black body law and estimated distance to the sun gives an energy loss rate.  Estimating the specific heat capacity of the sun as that of an ideal gas (an awful approximation, but it shows the plausibility), one can estimate the needed density of sun if the energy loss isn't to lead to a significant change in temperature change over ~4.5 billion years. (A big change in solar temperature would change the solar spectrum, meaning plants wouldn't be able to photosynthesize.) This turns out to be a huge number comparable to the estimates of density in RET white dwarfs and neutron stars.  Thus, we are lead to the conclusion that the sun is composed of very dense matter (assuming it doesn't have a power source of its own).
So no evidence. Noted. Do come back when you have anything to support your claim.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2010, 08:14:11 PM »
The sun is likely a dense ball of degenerate gas that is still in the process of cooling.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that this is likely, or even possible?

Using an estimated value of the solar luminosity assuming the black body law and estimated distance to the sun gives an energy loss rate.  Estimating the specific heat capacity of the sun as that of an ideal gas (an awful approximation, but it shows the plausibility), one can estimate the needed density of sun if the energy loss isn't to lead to a significant change in temperature change over ~4.5 billion years. (A big change in solar temperature would change the solar spectrum, meaning plants wouldn't be able to photosynthesize.) This turns out to be a huge number comparable to the estimates of density in RET white dwarfs and neutron stars.  Thus, we are lead to the conclusion that the sun is composed of very dense matter (assuming it doesn't have a power source of its own).
So no evidence. Noted. Do come back when you have anything to support your claim.

Speculating on the nature of the sun is just that, speculation.  I can tell you that my idea is consistent with known laws of physics and observation.
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

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ClockTower

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2010, 08:22:20 PM »
The sun is likely a dense ball of degenerate gas that is still in the process of cooling.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that this is likely, or even possible?

Using an estimated value of the solar luminosity assuming the black body law and estimated distance to the sun gives an energy loss rate.  Estimating the specific heat capacity of the sun as that of an ideal gas (an awful approximation, but it shows the plausibility), one can estimate the needed density of sun if the energy loss isn't to lead to a significant change in temperature change over ~4.5 billion years. (A big change in solar temperature would change the solar spectrum, meaning plants wouldn't be able to photosynthesize.) This turns out to be a huge number comparable to the estimates of density in RET white dwarfs and neutron stars.  Thus, we are lead to the conclusion that the sun is composed of very dense matter (assuming it doesn't have a power source of its own).
So no evidence. Noted. Do come back when you have anything to support your claim.

Speculating on the nature of the sun is just that, speculation.  I can tell you that my idea is consistent with known laws of physics and observation.
Well, if you're just speculating you should say so.

Since you can tell us that your idea is consistent with know laws of physics and observation, I'd like you to tell us how you managed to review all the known laws against your idea.

Let's start with the mass of the Sun. What is it?

Let's start with the color of the Sun. What is it?

From there tell us the surface temperature of the Sun.

Tell us what light frequencies plants currently use for photosynthesis.

Tell us what light frequencies they have used over time.

Tell us why any shift in the Solar spectrum would prevent plant photosynthesis. (By the way, I know your claim is false, so go ahead and recant your claim to speed this along.)

Stop back after fixing your error, and I'll continue to demonstrate just how wrong you are in other regards.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2010, 08:31:42 PM »
Get used to order-of-magnitude analysis.  I don't have a detailed model, nor could I.

The sun is likely a dense ball of degenerate gas that is still in the process of cooling.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that this is likely, or even possible?

Using an estimated value of the solar luminosity assuming the black body law and estimated distance to the sun gives an energy loss rate.  Estimating the specific heat capacity of the sun as that of an ideal gas (an awful approximation, but it shows the plausibility), one can estimate the needed density of sun if the energy loss isn't to lead to a significant change in temperature change over ~4.5 billion years. (A big change in solar temperature would change the solar spectrum, meaning plants wouldn't be able to photosynthesize.) This turns out to be a huge number comparable to the estimates of density in RET white dwarfs and neutron stars.  Thus, we are lead to the conclusion that the sun is composed of very dense matter (assuming it doesn't have a power source of its own).
So no evidence. Noted. Do come back when you have anything to support your claim.

Speculating on the nature of the sun is just that, speculation.  I can tell you that my idea is consistent with known laws of physics and observation.
Well, if you're just speculating you should say so.

Since you can tell us that your idea is consistent with know laws of physics and observation, I'd like you to tell us how you managed to review all the known laws against your idea.

Let's start with the mass of the Sun. What is it?
I don't know.  I can only estimate it within a few orders of magnitude.

Quote
Let's start with the color of the Sun. What is it?
Well, I can measure that.  My theory predicts the solar spectrum should have black body form.  It does.

Quote
From there tell us the surface temperature of the Sun.
I can measure that too from the solar spectrum.  My idea is consistent with that temperature.

Quote
Tell us what light frequencies plants currently use for photosynthesis.
I know at least it's close to the visible range.  So if my theory predicts the temperature of the sun changes so much that the maximum wavelength falls out of that range by a few orders of magnitude, it's wrong.
Quote
Tell us what light frequencies they have used over time.
I don't know.  Based on typical energy scales in molecules, I know it couldn't deviate too much from the visible.

Quote
Tell us why any shift in the Solar spectrum would prevent plant photosynthesis. (By the way, I know your claim is false, so go ahead and recant your claim to speed this along.)

Of course tiny shifts wouldn't do anything.  I'm talking orders of magnitude here.

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

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ClockTower

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2010, 08:37:00 PM »
I don't have a detailed model, nor could I.
I doubt that you have any model. If so, let's see it. So far, you haven't stated a single number, nor do I expect your ever will. Demonstrate your conclusion follows from your model or yield.

Quite simply, unless you have a detailed model, then your claim is not only false, it's a lie.

(I don't have a detailed model, but I know that it obeys all of the known laws.--what a crock!)
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2010, 08:49:21 PM »
I don't have a detailed model, nor could I.
I doubt that you have any model. If so, let's see it. So far, you haven't stated a single number, nor do I expect your ever will. Demonstrate your conclusion follows from your model or yield.

Quite simply, unless you have a detailed model, then your claim is not only false, it's a lie.

(I don't have a detailed model, but I know that it obeys all of the known laws.--what a crock!)

My model obeys all known laws by construction.  It consists of protons and electrons interacting via quantum electrodynamics.

My claim may be false, but it's my intention to show it is plausible.  

I don't have the data to constrain my model.  It is only nebulous because of the lack observations by FEers.  Any theory that has minimal data to begin with will be this way.  

I would say my model is about as solid as models of the RE sun were in the first third of the 20th century.

I have explained how my order of magnitude calculation works.  It yields a density of ~10^15kg/m^3.  An educated physicist or engineer should be able to reconstruct this number based on my description.
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

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ClockTower

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2010, 09:04:50 PM »
I don't have a detailed model, nor could I.
I doubt that you have any model. If so, let's see it. So far, you haven't stated a single number, nor do I expect your ever will. Demonstrate your conclusion follows from your model or yield.

Quite simply, unless you have a detailed model, then your claim is not only false, it's a lie.

(I don't have a detailed model, but I know that it obeys all of the known laws.--what a crock!)

My model obeys all known laws by construction.  It consists of protons and electrons interacting via quantum electrodynamics.

My claim may be false, but it's my intention to show it is plausible.  

I don't have the data to constrain my model.  It is only nebulous because of the lack observations by FEers.  Any theory that has minimal data to begin with will be this way.  
I would say my model is about as solid as models of the RE sun were in the first third of the 20th century.

I have explained how my order of magnitude calculation works.  It yields a density of ~10^15kg/m^3.  An educated physicist or engineer should be able to reconstruct this number based on my description.
That's just ridiculous. A model can't be constructed to obey all of the known laws. A model answers a set of observation. You don't have observations, so you don't have a model.

Do tell us how you obtained that density. I challenge you to do so. You don't even use the word density correctly (average, maximum?). Tell us where your Sun gets the energy to free electrons and protons for this radically new energy source through QED. Tell us all about how the Sun converts this energy into its spectrum. Tell us how you can get a density when you don't have a clue about the Sun's distance or mass.

(Why don't you just admit that you've got nothing?)
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2010, 09:18:21 PM »
I don't have a detailed model, nor could I.
I doubt that you have any model. If so, let's see it. So far, you haven't stated a single number, nor do I expect your ever will. Demonstrate your conclusion follows from your model or yield.

Quite simply, unless you have a detailed model, then your claim is not only false, it's a lie.

(I don't have a detailed model, but I know that it obeys all of the known laws.--what a crock!)

My model obeys all known laws by construction.  It consists of protons and electrons interacting via quantum electrodynamics.

My claim may be false, but it's my intention to show it is plausible. 

I don't have the data to constrain my model.  It is only nebulous because of the lack observations by FEers.  Any theory that has minimal data to begin with will be this way. 
I would say my model is about as solid as models of the RE sun were in the first third of the 20th century.

I have explained how my order of magnitude calculation works.  It yields a density of ~10^15kg/m^3.  An educated physicist or engineer should be able to reconstruct this number based on my description.
That's just ridiculous. A model can't be constructed to obey all of the known laws. A model answers a set of observation. You don't have observations, so you don't have a model.
It happens all the time.  The RE model of the sun is also constructed so it satisfies all known laws.  How else could it have been constructed?  It obviously doesn't invoke any unknown laws.

I have some observations.  I have the solar spectrum.  I have the temperature.  I have the apparent angular diameter.  I have FE estimates of solar distance.

Quote

Do tell us how you obtained that density. I challenge you to do so. You don't even use the word density correctly (average, maximum?). Tell us where your Sun gets the energy to free electrons and protons for this radically new energy source through QED. Tell us all about how the Sun converts this energy into its spectrum. Tell us how you can get a density when you don't have a clue about the Sun's distance or mass.

(Why don't you just admit that you've got nothing?)

I did tell you.  I assumed a uniform density in my calculation.  Anyone here is welcome to repeat it and ask me about any specifics they didn't understand or I didn't explain well enough.  In my model, the sun is continually losing energy through radiation and becoming cooler.  That's it.  There's no mystical energy source inside.  I've designed it so the cooling time is much longer than the age of the Earth.
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

*

ClockTower

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2010, 09:40:07 PM »
I don't have a detailed model, nor could I.
I doubt that you have any model. If so, let's see it. So far, you haven't stated a single number, nor do I expect your ever will. Demonstrate your conclusion follows from your model or yield.

Quite simply, unless you have a detailed model, then your claim is not only false, it's a lie.

(I don't have a detailed model, but I know that it obeys all of the known laws.--what a crock!)

My model obeys all known laws by construction.  It consists of protons and electrons interacting via quantum electrodynamics.

My claim may be false, but it's my intention to show it is plausible. 

I don't have the data to constrain my model.  It is only nebulous because of the lack observations by FEers.  Any theory that has minimal data to begin with will be this way. 
I would say my model is about as solid as models of the RE sun were in the first third of the 20th century.

I have explained how my order of magnitude calculation works.  It yields a density of ~10^15kg/m^3.  An educated physicist or engineer should be able to reconstruct this number based on my description.
That's just ridiculous. A model can't be constructed to obey all of the known laws. A model answers a set of observation. You don't have observations, so you don't have a model.
It happens all the time.  The RE model of the sun is also constructed so it satisfies all known laws.  How else could it have been constructed?  It obviously doesn't invoke any unknown laws.

I have some observations.  I have the solar spectrum.  I have the temperature.  I have the apparent angular diameter.  I have FE estimates of solar distance.

Quote

Do tell us how you obtained that density. I challenge you to do so. You don't even use the word density correctly (average, maximum?). Tell us where your Sun gets the energy to free electrons and protons for this radically new energy source through QED. Tell us all about how the Sun converts this energy into its spectrum. Tell us how you can get a density when you don't have a clue about the Sun's distance or mass.

(Why don't you just admit that you've got nothing?)

I did tell you.  I assumed a uniform density in my calculation.  Anyone here is welcome to repeat it and ask me about any specifics they didn't understand or I didn't explain well enough.  In my model, the sun is continually losing energy through radiation and becoming cooler.  That's it.  There's no mystical energy source inside.  I've designed it so the cooling time is much longer than the age of the Earth.
Show your work. You never told us that you assumed a uniform density, so there was no way to obtain your result before now. So how did your Sun get hot in the first place? How much energy did it start with? How did it store that energy? Surely you're not hoping that gravity will hold the Sun together at any temperature.

You say you have the temperature, the FE distance to the Sun (which has been shown here to be false), the solar spectrum, and maybe more. Let's have those figures now. No more dodging.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2010, 09:51:48 PM »
I don't have a detailed model, nor could I.
I doubt that you have any model. If so, let's see it. So far, you haven't stated a single number, nor do I expect your ever will. Demonstrate your conclusion follows from your model or yield.

Quite simply, unless you have a detailed model, then your claim is not only false, it's a lie.

(I don't have a detailed model, but I know that it obeys all of the known laws.--what a crock!)

My model obeys all known laws by construction.  It consists of protons and electrons interacting via quantum electrodynamics.

My claim may be false, but it's my intention to show it is plausible.  

I don't have the data to constrain my model.  It is only nebulous because of the lack observations by FEers.  Any theory that has minimal data to begin with will be this way.  
I would say my model is about as solid as models of the RE sun were in the first third of the 20th century.

I have explained how my order of magnitude calculation works.  It yields a density of ~10^15kg/m^3.  An educated physicist or engineer should be able to reconstruct this number based on my description.
That's just ridiculous. A model can't be constructed to obey all of the known laws. A model answers a set of observation. You don't have observations, so you don't have a model.
It happens all the time.  The RE model of the sun is also constructed so it satisfies all known laws.  How else could it have been constructed?  It obviously doesn't invoke any unknown laws.

I have some observations.  I have the solar spectrum.  I have the temperature.  I have the apparent angular diameter.  I have FE estimates of solar distance.

Quote

Do tell us how you obtained that density. I challenge you to do so. You don't even use the word density correctly (average, maximum?). Tell us where your Sun gets the energy to free electrons and protons for this radically new energy source through QED. Tell us all about how the Sun converts this energy into its spectrum. Tell us how you can get a density when you don't have a clue about the Sun's distance or mass.

(Why don't you just admit that you've got nothing?)

I did tell you.  I assumed a uniform density in my calculation.  Anyone here is welcome to repeat it and ask me about any specifics they didn't understand or I didn't explain well enough.  In my model, the sun is continually losing energy through radiation and becoming cooler.  That's it.  There's no mystical energy source inside.  I've designed it so the cooling time is much longer than the age of the Earth.
Show your work. You never told us that you assumed a uniform density, so there was no way to obtain your result before now. So how did your Sun get hot in the first place? How much energy did it start with? How did it store that energy? Surely you're not hoping that gravity will hold the Sun together at any temperature.

You say you have the temperature, the FE distance to the Sun (which has been shown here to be false), the solar spectrum, and maybe more. Let's have those figures now. No more dodging.

The temperature, spectrum, and angular diameter of the sun are all easily accessible online, as are estimates of the solar distance on this site.

The formation of the sun is an unknown aspect of the theory and is even more speculative.  Gravitational collapse of gas?  Clearly for my model to be plausible, it had to have formed at temperature where gravitation is enough to overcome pressure, which is not implausible.  It stores energy like any hot body does, in the form of atomic motion.
edit: I don't intend tho show further aspects of my work unless someone intends to repeat it or does not understand a certain detail.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 09:56:49 PM by Euclid »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

*

ClockTower

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2010, 09:56:59 PM »
The temperature, spectrum, and angular diameter of the sun are all easily accessible online, as are estimates of the solar distance on this site.

The formation of the sun is an unknown aspect of the theory and is even more speculative.  Gravitational collapse of gas?  Clearly for my model to be plausible, it had to have formed at temperature where gravitation is enough to overcome pressure, which is not implausible.  It stores energy like any hot body does, in the form of atomic motion.
The FE estimates are demonstrated to be wrong right here in FED.

Again what temperature do say the Sun started at?

Again what spectrum did you use?

Again what angular diameter of the Sun did you use?

Do you really think that gas exists at any temperature and pressure?

Why do you think that gravity holds the Sun together when you can't even tell us its mass or temperature?

How long as the Sun been cooling in your model?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2010, 10:04:48 PM »
The temperature, spectrum, and angular diameter of the sun are all easily accessible online, as are estimates of the solar distance on this site.

The formation of the sun is an unknown aspect of the theory and is even more speculative.  Gravitational collapse of gas?  Clearly for my model to be plausible, it had to have formed at temperature where gravitation is enough to overcome pressure, which is not implausible.  It stores energy like any hot body does, in the form of atomic motion.
The FE estimates are demonstrated to be wrong right here in FED.

Again what temperature do say the Sun started at?
I don't know.  It's not important to the plausibility of my model.

Quote
Again what spectrum did you use?
There are several online.  The exact numbers are not important to my model, only that it is approximated well by a black body spectrum of temperature 5777K.

Quote
Again what angular diameter of the Sun did you use?
Try googling.

Quote
Do you really think that gas exists at any temperature and pressure?
It doesn't. But it can exist in an ultra-dense state according to known laws.

Quote
Why do you think that gravity holds the Sun together when you can't even tell us its mass or temperature?
I can tell you its temperature.  Google it.  I will say that my idea is not too different from neutron stars and white dwarfs in RET.  The equation of state of this matter permits it to be gravitationally contained for a variety of different masses.

Quote
How long as the Sun been cooling in your model?

I don't know.  At least as long as life has been around.  An age of the Sun is not important to the plausibility of my model.

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

*

ClockTower

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2010, 10:10:06 PM »
The temperature, spectrum, and angular diameter of the sun are all easily accessible online, as are estimates of the solar distance on this site.

The formation of the sun is an unknown aspect of the theory and is even more speculative.  Gravitational collapse of gas?  Clearly for my model to be plausible, it had to have formed at temperature where gravitation is enough to overcome pressure, which is not implausible.  It stores energy like any hot body does, in the form of atomic motion.
The FE estimates are demonstrated to be wrong right here in FED.

Again what temperature do say the Sun started at?
I don't know.  It's not important to the plausibility of my model.

Quote
Again what spectrum did you use?
There are several online.  The exact numbers are not important to my model, only that it is approximated well by a black body spectrum of temperature 5777K.

Quote
Again what angular diameter of the Sun did you use?
Try googling.

Quote
Do you really think that gas exists at any temperature and pressure?
It doesn't. But it can exist in an ultra-dense state according to known laws.

Quote
Why do you think that gravity holds the Sun together when you can't even tell us its mass or temperature?
I can tell you its temperature.  Google it.  I will say that my idea is not too different from neutron stars and white dwarfs in RET.  The equation of state of this matter permits it to be gravitationally contained for a variety of different masses.

Quote
How long as the Sun been cooling in your model?

I don't know.  At least as long as life has been around.  An age of the Sun is not important to the plausibility of my model.


Until you show your work on how you came up with the density of the Sun, I leave you to your trolling. Suggesting that I Google to determine what number you used in your model is inappropriate and demonstrates that you've got nothing.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2010, 10:16:03 PM »
The temperature, spectrum, and angular diameter of the sun are all easily accessible online, as are estimates of the solar distance on this site.

The formation of the sun is an unknown aspect of the theory and is even more speculative.  Gravitational collapse of gas?  Clearly for my model to be plausible, it had to have formed at temperature where gravitation is enough to overcome pressure, which is not implausible.  It stores energy like any hot body does, in the form of atomic motion.
The FE estimates are demonstrated to be wrong right here in FED.

Again what temperature do say the Sun started at?
I don't know.  It's not important to the plausibility of my model.

Quote
Again what spectrum did you use?
There are several online.  The exact numbers are not important to my model, only that it is approximated well by a black body spectrum of temperature 5777K.

Quote
Again what angular diameter of the Sun did you use?
Try googling.

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Do you really think that gas exists at any temperature and pressure?
It doesn't. But it can exist in an ultra-dense state according to known laws.

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Why do you think that gravity holds the Sun together when you can't even tell us its mass or temperature?
I can tell you its temperature.  Google it.  I will say that my idea is not too different from neutron stars and white dwarfs in RET.  The equation of state of this matter permits it to be gravitationally contained for a variety of different masses.

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How long as the Sun been cooling in your model?

I don't know.  At least as long as life has been around.  An age of the Sun is not important to the plausibility of my model.


Until you show your work on how you came up with the density of the Sun, I leave you to your trolling. Suggesting that I Google to determine what number you used in your model is inappropriate and demonstrates that you've got nothing.

The exact numbers are unimportant in an order of magnitude analysis.  If you find an angular diameter of 31 arcminutes one place and I used 30 arcminutes in my calculation, it makes no practical difference.  If you want to repeat the calculation, I will guide you through it, but I have no obligation to put all my equations here.  Often in scientific publications, not all work is shown.  It is expected the reader can figure out the details themselves.  This leads to better reliability when others try repeat the calculation by different methods.  I have given enough details for a physics literate person to repeat my calculation to order of magnitude accuracy.
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

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Ski

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2010, 10:16:35 PM »
http://tinyurl.com/25nhnm5

The angular diameter of the sun is not FE-RE dependent. Perhaps he could have said, "I used the commonly accepted angular diameter of the sun," but the nature of an object's angular diameter makes this self-evident.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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deathsink

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2010, 09:45:57 PM »

Well, I can measure that.  My theory predicts the solar spectrum should have black body form.  It does.




Than use the Stefan-Boltzmann law to show the Sun's temperature. Seems to me it will be much too hot to be degenerate matter.

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deathsink

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2010, 09:51:57 PM »

Well, I can measure that.  My theory predicts the solar spectrum should have black body form.  It does.




Than use the Stefan-Boltzmann law to show the Sun's temperature. Seems to me it will be much too hot to be degenerate matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star

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Euclid

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2010, 12:27:38 PM »

Well, I can measure that.  My theory predicts the solar spectrum should have black body form.  It does.




Than use the Stefan-Boltzmann law to show the Sun's temperature. Seems to me it will be much too hot to be degenerate matter.

I can't derive the Sun's temperature.  That's an empirical fact derived from the solar spectrum.  There's no argument that says degenerate matter can't be 5777K.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 12:40:09 PM by Euclid »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

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ClockTower

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2010, 10:03:24 PM »
 If you want to repeat the calculation, I will guide you through it, but I have no obligation to put all my equations here.  
I'll take you up on that offer. Please guide me through your calculation as I want to repeat the calculation.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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deathsink

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2010, 10:59:35 AM »

Well, I can measure that.  My theory predicts the solar spectrum should have black body form.  It does.




Than use the Stefan-Boltzmann law to show the Sun's temperature. Seems to me it will be much too hot to be degenerate matter.

I can't derive the Sun's temperature.  That's an empirical fact derived from the solar spectrum.  There's no argument that says degenerate matter can't be 5777K.

I wonder why we do not have any evidence of a Suprnova impacting the earth long in the past. Before a star becomes degenerate matter, it sure as hell goes supernova.

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Ski

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Re: Stefan-Boltzmann Law, the Sun, and FEH
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2010, 04:09:21 PM »
Might want to fact check that.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."