Possible Explanation for Bendy Light

If you're a FE'er that still accepts gravity, you may be interested in gravitational lensing, as proposed by Albert Einstein. Ignoring the shape of the Earth in the diagram below, the gist of it is the fact that light is affected by gravity. Because the gravitational field above an infinite plane is constant (as proposed in a thread below this one, but the explanation for why g changes with height in the FAQ is more than sufficient to dismiss the main purpose of the topic), warping would begin to occur extremely long distances away and could explain the bendy light phenomenon.

So how is gravity warping light after extremely long distances relevant to bendy light, when bendy light is supposed to explain things on earth, not from millions of light years away? That and the fact that a lot of FE'ers think the sun is very small and the size of the universe is also very small (relative to RE'ers).

This is a great idea, except for the drawback that gravitational fields also affect matter, and we have empirical evidence that the gravitational field present at the Earth's surface is directed down.

This is a great idea, except for the drawback that gravitational fields also affect matter, and we have empirical evidence that the gravitational field present at the Earth's surface is directed down.

So basically, it's a great idea, except for the part where it's a horrible idea.

There would have to be giant, giant gravity wells between the earth and the sun to explain the deflection of light like this, enough that the earth's gravitational field would not be strong enough to keep us on, and also the stars would look all warped and weird like in one of those wormholes from sci-fi movies.

Face it, there is no way to consistently invoke this phenomenon, or if there is, give a precise, analytical description of it and how it would affect our view of the heavens.

light could travel in an extra dimension matter does not.

light could travel in an extra dimension matter does not.

Now you have just created more problems.  So light enters this "extra dimension" bends as it travels, and exits said "extra dimension" just before it hits ANYTHING THAT SEES IT!  It would have to constantly be traveling in and out of this "extra dimension" in order to bend and then be seen whenever someone happened to look.

FAIL!

Quote from: John Davis on June 05, 2010, 01:30:06 PM

light could travel in an extra dimension matter does not.

Now you have just created more problems.  So light enters this "extra dimension" bends as it travels, and exits said "extra dimension" just before it hits ANYTHING THAT SEES IT!  It would have to constantly be traveling in and out of this "extra dimension" in order to bend and then be seen whenever someone happened to look.

FAIL!

Isn't that the same idea of String theory?  Quarks popping in and out of 6 dimensions?

Quote from: Sliver on June 05, 2010, 01:44:47 PM

Quote from: John Davis on June 05, 2010, 01:30:06 PM

light could travel in an extra dimension matter does not.

Now you have just created more problems.  So light enters this "extra dimension" bends as it travels, and exits said "extra dimension" just before it hits ANYTHING THAT SEES IT!  It would have to constantly be traveling in and out of this "extra dimension" in order to bend and then be seen whenever someone happened to look.

FAIL!

Isn't that the same idea of String theory?  Quarks popping in and out of 6 dimensions?

Not familiar with String Theory.

Quote from: Sliver on June 05, 2010, 01:44:47 PM

Quote from: John Davis on June 05, 2010, 01:30:06 PM

light could travel in an extra dimension matter does not.

Now you have just created more problems.  So light enters this "extra dimension" bends as it travels, and exits said "extra dimension" just before it hits ANYTHING THAT SEES IT!  It would have to constantly be traveling in and out of this "extra dimension" in order to bend and then be seen whenever someone happened to look.

FAIL!

Isn't that the same idea of String theory?  Quarks popping in and out of 6 dimensions?

That was the worst demonstration of understanding I've ever seen. No, string theory is not "quarks popping in and out of 6 dimensions." It is the theory that 1-dimensional strings of energy (why the hell did you think it was quarks?) vibrate a different frequencies and tensions by necessity in a (9+1)/(10+1) dimensional space-time (depending on if you're following M-theory or superstring theory), where the extra dimensions are "curled" Kaluza-Klein manifolds. The extra dimensions are necessary to eliminate mathematical anomalies created by string vibrating in lower dimensional space-time, such as tachyons (particles with imaginary mass that travel faster than light-speed).

Quote from: Lorddave on June 05, 2010, 01:52:41 PM

Quote from: Sliver on June 05, 2010, 01:44:47 PM

Quote from: John Davis on June 05, 2010, 01:30:06 PM

light could travel in an extra dimension matter does not.

Now you have just created more problems.  So light enters this "extra dimension" bends as it travels, and exits said "extra dimension" just before it hits ANYTHING THAT SEES IT!  It would have to constantly be traveling in and out of this "extra dimension" in order to bend and then be seen whenever someone happened to look.

FAIL!

Isn't that the same idea of String theory?  Quarks popping in and out of 6 dimensions?

That was the worst demonstration of understanding I've ever seen. No, string theory is not "quarks popping in and out of 6 dimensions." It is the theory that 1-dimensional strings of energy (why the hell did you think it was quarks?) vibrate a different frequencies and tensions by necessity in a (9+1)/(10+1) dimensional space-time (depending on if you're following M-theory or superstring theory), where the extra dimensions are "curled" Kaluza-Klein manifolds. The extra dimensions are necessary to eliminate mathematical anomalies created by string vibrating in lower dimensional space-time, such as tachyons (particles with imaginary mass that travel faster than light-speed).

I had String Theory explained to me by a 14 year old when I went to school with him a long time ago.  As such, my information could easily be inaccurate.

But good to learn something new.

Still...
I'm almost certain that there's something about a particle and it's anti-particle appearing in our dimension randomly then annihilating each other instantly except in rare cases when they form at the event horizon of a black hole, causing one to fall in and the other to remain in the universe.

What would that be?

Quote from: f(x) on June 05, 2010, 03:33:15 PM

Quote from: Lorddave on June 05, 2010, 01:52:41 PM

Quote from: Sliver on June 05, 2010, 01:44:47 PM

Quote from: John Davis on June 05, 2010, 01:30:06 PM

light could travel in an extra dimension matter does not.

Now you have just created more problems.  So light enters this "extra dimension" bends as it travels, and exits said "extra dimension" just before it hits ANYTHING THAT SEES IT!  It would have to constantly be traveling in and out of this "extra dimension" in order to bend and then be seen whenever someone happened to look.

FAIL!

Isn't that the same idea of String theory?  Quarks popping in and out of 6 dimensions?

That was the worst demonstration of understanding I've ever seen. No, string theory is not "quarks popping in and out of 6 dimensions." It is the theory that 1-dimensional strings of energy (why the hell did you think it was quarks?) vibrate a different frequencies and tensions by necessity in a (9+1)/(10+1) dimensional space-time (depending on if you're following M-theory or superstring theory), where the extra dimensions are "curled" Kaluza-Klein manifolds. The extra dimensions are necessary to eliminate mathematical anomalies created by string vibrating in lower dimensional space-time, such as tachyons (particles with imaginary mass that travel faster than light-speed).

I had String Theory explained to me by a 14 year old when I went to school with him a long time ago.  As such, my information could easily be inaccurate.

But good to learn something new.

Still...
I'm almost certain that there's something about a particle and it's anti-particle appearing in our dimension randomly then annihilating each other instantly except in rare cases when they form at the event horizon of a black hole, causing one to fall in and the other to remain in the universe.

What would that be?

That's Hawking Radiation caused by black hole entropy.

Quote from: John Davis on June 05, 2010, 01:30:06 PM

light could travel in an extra dimension matter does not.

Now you have just created more problems.  So light enters this "extra dimension" bends as it travels, and exits said "extra dimension" just before it hits ANYTHING THAT SEES IT!  It would have to constantly be traveling in and out of this "extra dimension" in order to bend and then be seen whenever someone happened to look.

FAIL!

It could travel in a straight line through 5 dimensions.  Just like planets travel in a straight line through 4d unless acted upon.

This whole discussion is pointless, as experiments have shown beeny light to be nonexistent.
/thread

This whole discussion is pointless, as experiments have shown beeny light to be nonexistent.

Please provide one example of such an experiment.

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on June 07, 2010, 01:22:27 PM

This whole discussion is pointless, as experiments have shown beeny light to be nonexistent.

Please provide one example of such an experiment.

The Bedford Levels experiment.  Flat Earth with no bending of light detected.

The bending of light by means of gravity is explained by Einstein's General Relativity.  General relativity states that gravity is a force caused by the curvature of space time, similar in shape to a funnel, with the gravitational source at the centre, at the bottom.  This curvature exists in a fourth spatial dimension.  As light approaches this funnel, the curvature of its path increases, as the slope of space-time also increases.   This is not easily observed on earth, due to it's relativistically small mass.  Only in a gravity well approaching the vertical inclination of a black hole's event horizon, can the bending of light be noticed in a small distance. 

we have empirical evidence that the gravitational field present at the Earth's surface is directed down.

Please post this empirical evidence here.

I can't prove this, but my understanding of round-earth physics is that the gravity pulls towards the centre of the earth.  An accelerating flat-earth would have gravity pulling along a vector opposite the acceleration of the earth.  In both models, down is relative to the viewer.  If your orientation was inverted of that of the rest of flat-earth, the force of gravity would pull up.  From the point of view of anywhere on round-earth, gravity pulls in all directions at once.  Some may think this is minor, but point of view is hugely important when considering forces and physics. 

I can't prove this, but my understanding of round-earth physics is that the gravity pulls towards the centre of the earth.  An accelerating flat-earth would have gravity pulling along a vector opposite the acceleration of the earth.  In both models, down is relative to the viewer.  If your orientation was inverted of that of the rest of flat-earth, the force of gravity would pull up.  From the point of view of anywhere on round-earth, gravity pulls in all directions at once.  Some may think this is minor, but point of view is hugely important when considering forces and physics. 

In other words...

Down is the direction towards the center of the strongest source of gravity relative to you.

The Bedford Levels experiment.  Flat Earth with no bending of light detected.

That experiment would also be evidence that the Earth is flat, which was probably not Thermal Detonator's intention. I will, however, await his verification of this before commenting further.

Quote from: Parsifal on June 03, 2010, 10:05:05 PM

we have empirical evidence that the gravitational field present at the Earth's surface is directed down.

Please post this empirical evidence here.

Lift up any object with mass. Release it. In which direction does it appear to accelerate?

Lift up any object with mass. Release it. In which direction does it appear to accelerate?

Sorry, I can't afford one of these "any object with mass", can you send me some funds so that I can buy one and try this?

Quote from: Parsifal on June 07, 2010, 05:36:23 PM

Lift up any object with mass. Release it. In which direction does it appear to accelerate?

Sorry, I can't afford one of these "any object with mass", can you send me some funds so that I can buy one and try this?

mmm...
Hot Troll on Troll action.

Sorry, I can't afford one of these "any object with mass", can you send me some funds so that I can buy one and try this?

Why don't you try the experiment using yourself as the massive object? Simply jump upwards, and when you depart contact with the ground, observe which direction you appear to accelerate relative to the ground below you.

mmm...
Hot Troll on Troll action.

Please keep low content posting out of FED.

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on June 07, 2010, 01:22:27 PM

This whole discussion is pointless, as experiments have shown beeny light to be nonexistent.

Please provide one example of such an experiment.

The usage of a telescope equipped with setting circles by any one of the thousands of professional and amateur astronomers (including myself) to locate specific stars is a test of the predictions of beeny light every time, and they invariably show its predictions to be false.

The usage of a telescope equipped with setting circles by any one of the thousands of professional and amateur astronomers (including myself) to locate specific stars is a test of the predictions of beeny light every time, and they invariably show its predictions to be false.

Please explain which predictions it tests, and provide data which shows that these predictions are false.

Please explain which predictions it tests, and provide data which shows that these predictions are false.

Please explain which predictions it doesn't test, and provide data which shows that these predictions are true.

Quote from: Thermal Detonator on June 08, 2010, 05:13:12 AM

The usage of a telescope equipped with setting circles by any one of the thousands of professional and amateur astronomers (including myself) to locate specific stars is a test of the predictions of beeny light every time, and they invariably show its predictions to be false.

Please explain which predictions it tests, and provide data which shows that these predictions are false.

Sorry, I thought you were a beeny light specialist? If so, you'll need no explanation of what predictions of beeny light are tested by setting circles - unless, of course, you don't understand what setting circles are or how they work, in which case you should piss off and read up on them. In fact, it's clear you don't understand them or else you'd realise that your request for "data" is as ridiculous as asking for data that if you let go of an object, it falls to the ground.

Sorry, I thought you were a beeny light specialist? If so, you'll need no explanation of what predictions of beeny light are tested by setting circles - unless, of course, you don't understand what setting circles are or how they work, in which case you should piss off and read up on them. In fact, it's clear you don't understand them or else you'd realise that your request for "data" is as ridiculous as asking for data that if you let go of an object, it falls to the ground.

I don't see any explanations or data in this post. Deriding my understanding of a subject is no way to debate, and is off topic in this forum.

Quote from: Sliver on June 05, 2010, 01:44:47 PM

Quote from: John Davis on June 05, 2010, 01:30:06 PM

light could travel in an extra dimension matter does not.

Now you have just created more problems.  So light enters this "extra dimension" bends as it travels, and exits said "extra dimension" just before it hits ANYTHING THAT SEES IT!  It would have to constantly be traveling in and out of this "extra dimension" in order to bend and then be seen whenever someone happened to look.

FAIL!

It could travel in a straight line through 5 dimensions.  Just like planets travel in a straight line through 4d unless acted upon.

At the speed of light, even!

I don't see any explanations or data in this post. Deriding my understanding of a subject is no way to debate, and is off topic in this forum.

And I don't see any explanations or data in your post.

Please explain which predictions it doesn't test, and provide data which shows that these predictions are true.