FET theory is pretentious.

  • 89 Replies
  • 23231 Views
?

004forever

FET theory is pretentious.
« on: April 06, 2010, 08:33:48 PM »
yeah, I know this doesn't really affect the validity of FET, but it's something that's been bothering me. 

I find the idea that the entire universe is centered around the Earth to be just incredibly pretentious.  And it gets worse when you consider that in FET, no other planet is like the Earth and things on Earth must be treated differently then things in the Universe(heavenly bodies accelerate upwards while things on Earth are pushed up by the Earth). 

It's the idea that Earth is somehow this magic special place that really bothers me.

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 27043
  • I'm the boss.
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 08:45:43 PM »
I think blindly assuming that the Earth does not hold a central position in the universe is at least as pretentious.  And pointing out that another's position is pretentious when one's own position is so pretentious is perhaps most pretentious of all.

I know that this doesn't really affect the validity of RET, but it's something that's always bothered me.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

?

004forever

Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 08:50:16 PM »
I think blindly assuming that the Earth does not hold a central position in the universe is at least as pretentious.  And pointing out that another's position is pretentious when one's own position is so pretentious is perhaps most pretentious of all.

I know that this doesn't really affect the validity of RET, but it's something that's always bothered me.

I don't blindly assume.  I've looked at the evidence and came to the conclusion that the Earth does not hold a central position in the Universe much like you came to the conclusion that it does. 

The difference is, my conclusion doesn't assume that the whole world literally revolves around me.

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 27043
  • I'm the boss.
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 08:53:44 PM »
I think blindly assuming that the Earth does not hold a central position in the universe is at least as pretentious.  And pointing out that another's position is pretentious when one's own position is so pretentious is perhaps most pretentious of all.

I know that this doesn't really affect the validity of RET, but it's something that's always bothered me.

I don't blindly assume.  I've looked at the evidence and came to the conclusion that the Earth does not hold a central position in the Universe much like you came to the conclusion that it does. 

The difference is, my conclusion doesn't assume that the whole world literally revolves around me.

There you go, being pretentious again.  How is anyone supposed to take you seriously?  ???
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

?

Deceiver

  • 239
  • The grant money made me do it.
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 09:06:54 PM »
I dunno, conceding that people other than ourselves might have more intelligence, determination, creativity, have made valid, coherent and reliable conclusions regarding the sphericity of the earth seems to show humility, if anything. Creating a slew of forces that for some arcane reason only apply to this type of matter, or behave in very specific unexplainable ways and only for the sole purpose of controlling a single phenomenon (disk shaped moon and sun spotlights, bendy light, shadow thing covering the moon, UA, Ice walls that magically hold in water despite lower density -- or mountains that violate isostatic equilibrium to hold said ice wall -- to name a few) seems very pretentious/arrogant to me. What's the point? To make the universe vastly more complicated than it already is, or call every person that has evidence to the contrary a liar or fraud?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 09:11:32 PM by Deceiver »

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 27043
  • I'm the boss.
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 09:52:01 PM »
I dunno, conceding that people other than ourselves might have more intelligence, determination, creativity, have made valid, coherent and reliable conclusions regarding the sphericity of the earth seems to show humility, if anything.

We're not talking about the sphericity of the Earth.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

?

EarthISroundISproven

  • 382
  • There is no ice wall
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 10:33:06 PM »
To be fair, at least the FES let us RE heathens invade their site and challenge them. As for pretentious, do I like the sound of my own voice in the written form? Heck I sure do!........... ;D

?

Deceiver

  • 239
  • The grant money made me do it.
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2010, 10:35:16 PM »
To be fair, at least the FES let us RE heathens invade their site and challenge them. As for pretentious, do I like the sound of my own voice in the written form? Heck I sure do!........... ;D

I suppose the ruse was exposed a long time ago. By attempting to evangelize the FE crowd we are certainly a pretentious lot.

?

Anteater7171

  • 9416
  • I am the FAQ!!!
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 12:25:08 AM »
To be fair, at least the FES let us RE heathens invade their site and challenge them. As for pretentious, do I like the sound of my own voice in the written form? Heck I sure do!........... ;D

Isn't our tolerance of RE viewpoints basically the opposite of being pretensions? The FES at least to me feels like it doesn't hold it's own views so high that they themselves are not up for debate, certainly not pretensions.
I don't remember anything. Well, I do, but it's really vague. Like I was on drugs the whole time.

?

flyingmonkey

  • 728
  • Troll trolling Trolls
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2010, 03:44:42 AM »
Just going by luck of the draw, the center of the Universe has infinitely more chance of not being on Earth than it does of being on Earth.


Do you feel lucky, punk?

?

Anteater7171

  • 9416
  • I am the FAQ!!!
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2010, 11:03:53 AM »
Just going by luck of the draw, the center of the Universe has infinitely more chance of not being on Earth than it does of being on Earth.


Do you feel lucky, punk?

The odds of any particular planet holding life are slim too.
I don't remember anything. Well, I do, but it's really vague. Like I was on drugs the whole time.

?

Deceiver

  • 239
  • The grant money made me do it.
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2010, 11:14:45 AM »
Just going by luck of the draw, the center of the Universe has infinitely more chance of not being on Earth than it does of being on Earth.


Do you feel lucky, punk?

The odds of any particular planet holding life are slim too.

Hardly true. The reasons for existence of life on earth are obvious. Match up these criteria on any other planet and I can almost guarantee that some form of life, even microbial will probably be present. The only problem is that very few planets are in the habitable zone for their respective stars. Planets either have too much energy or too little energy in some form or another. As the sun expands into a red giant, Mars will very likely become habitable for microbial life. Humans could survive there in the long term with only minor tinkering and equipment

Needs only
1) Liquid water
2) Strong magnetic field
3) moderate gravity
4) moderate solar radiation
5) abundant basic organic chemicals --> to create more complex ones for basic life processes.
6) plate tectonics to recycle surface materials.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 11:17:09 AM by Deceiver »

*

Username

  • Administrator
  • 17692
  • President of The Flat Earth Society
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2010, 11:51:22 AM »
The Copernican Principle is a misuse of mathematical induction and single-handedly lead to the invention of the magic "Dark Energy" as well as thousands of other issues.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

?

Thomas

  • 72
  • Standing at the Edge of the World
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2010, 12:21:58 PM »
As John Davis rightly pointed out, modern scientists take the Cosmological Principle and the Copernican Principle as the filter through which they analyze any data or observations that they receive. These two "principles" essentially state that we should assume that we are not in a privileged position in the universe, and that the universe is essentially the same at any point.  Needless to say, these are nothing more than preconceived notions, since they are assumed out of hand on a rather philosophical basis.  How pretentious is that?

Generally speaking, there are two trends of thought on this topic: the first is to assume that there is no center of the universe. If this is the case, and no single location is "privileged" as being the absolute frame of reference, then we can make any location our reference frame, including earth.  It is nothing more than constructing a coordinate system based on where we happen to be, and it is mathematically valid.  Thus, Geocentrism is as valid a reference point as any, since everything is equally "unprivileged." Besides, it is only logical to use our actual frame of reference as the center of our coordinate system, calculating the relative motions of the heavenly bodies from our vantage point.

The second idea is that, if there is an actual center or privileged location to our universe, then we're certainly not in it.  This is more of an assumption than an idea gleaned from any observational or instrumental data.  After all, we're not able to take a look at our position from another vantage point in the universe.  In fact, the opposite conclusion may be reached from an observational point of view by the phenomenon of redshift.  Redshift may be one of two things: the acceleration of galaxies moving away from us, or gravitational attraction of matter. If it is the first, then we're witnessing these galaxies moving away from us wherever we look. This indicates a central position.  The idea of dark matter was proposed to solve this inconvenience to the Copernican Principle; essentially, it is stated that this unknown, unknowable, and indetectible force is causing the expansion of space in such a way that every galaxy is accelerating away from every other galaxy.  However, this is simply an hypothesis that was postulated precisely to eliminate this rather un-Copernican dilemma, and is an example of scientists adding unneeded complexity to maintain their own preconceived notions. So much for objectivity based on evidence. If we remove the Copernican Principle and admit the possibility that we may be in a privileged position, there is no longer any need for that mysterious dark matter, and we can take the acceleration of galaxies away from us at face value.  
If redshift is due to gravitational attraction, then this would demonstrate that the majority of universal matter is surrounding us in such a way that we're situated in a relatively empty void. A privileged position, in other words.

Given the relativity of motion, the mathematical equivalence of a Geocentric system, and our very limited perspective of the universe, assuming Geocentrism is incorrect out of hand is rather pretentious itself.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 12:41:33 PM by Thomas »
"A procession of the damned. By the damned, I mean the excluded. We shall have a procession of data that Science has excluded. Battalions of the accursed, captained by pallid data that I have exhumed, will march. You'll read them -- or they'll march." - Charles Fort

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2010, 12:22:10 PM »
Just going by luck of the draw, the center of the Universe has infinitely more chance of not being on Earth than it does of being on Earth.


Do you feel lucky, punk?

The odds of any particular planet holding life are slim too.

It's a lot like the lottery.  The odds of you winning are somewhere between slim and none but the odds that someone will win are pretty good.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 12:23:58 PM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Lorddave

  • 18161
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2010, 12:27:22 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2010, 12:35:00 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Lorddave

  • 18161
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2010, 01:39:46 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

Correction:
Earth is the only planet WE know of that harbors life. 
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

?

2fst4u

  • 2498
  • High and Tighty
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2010, 01:41:34 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

Correction:
Earth is the only planet WE know of that harbors life. 
I think that's intrinsically implied. We don't know of others and therefore can't say anything of their knowledge. The "we" is redundant.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17934
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2010, 01:42:46 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

You assume that there is a universe to explore.

?

2fst4u

  • 2498
  • High and Tighty
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2010, 01:45:15 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

You assume that there is a universe to explore.
You assume there isn't.

*

Lorddave

  • 18161
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2010, 02:01:51 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

You assume that there is a universe to explore.

I would think that simply looking up into the sky would prove that the Universe exists.  It doesn't prove in what form, but it proves there is something in the sky.  And if there is only the Earth, then the Earth is our Universe.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2010, 02:51:50 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

You assume that there is a universe to explore.

The FE doesn't exist within a universe?  ???  :o
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

004forever

Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2010, 02:59:12 PM »

You assume that there is a universe to explore.

Why couldn't there be?  Yeah, sustained space flight is impossible in your model, but we could explore part of it. 

*

Moon squirter

  • 1405
  • Ding dong!
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2010, 11:56:44 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

You assume that there is a universe to explore.

The universe is simply the name given to everything we know to exist.   Please stop trolling, Tom (unless you are really that stupid, in which case I apologise).
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

?

sillyrob

  • Official Member
  • 3771
  • Punk rawk.
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2010, 12:07:53 AM »
From what I've gathered, Tom is not trolling. He honestly believes everything he states, whether it is batshit crazy or not. Also, don't try to present him with facts or reason, he'll ignore it and tell you to post real data because all data presented is false.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17934
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2010, 04:52:14 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

You assume that there is a universe to explore.

The FE doesn't exist within a universe?  ???  :o

As the planets are relatively small, and the stars are nothing more than points of light, I wouldn't say that there's much to explore.

*

The Question1

  • 390
  • Your logic is inferior to my logic.
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2010, 05:07:05 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

You assume that there is a universe to explore.

The FE doesn't exist within a universe?  ???  :o

As the planets are relatively small, and the stars are nothing more than points of light, I wouldn't say that there's much to explore.
(As this is something you often do...)
Proof?
If you tell me read ENAG,atleast direct me to the specfic passage(s).

*

Lorddave

  • 18161
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2010, 05:20:31 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

You assume that there is a universe to explore.

The FE doesn't exist within a universe?  ???  :o

As the planets are relatively small, and the stars are nothing more than points of light, I wouldn't say that there's much to explore.

Relative to what?

Stars are nothing more than points of light?  No proof to back that up?  Ok then.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42535
Re: FET theory is pretentious.
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2010, 07:07:30 PM »
Why is thinking that we aren't special pretensions?  By assuming we're not special we put ourselves in with everything else, making us insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe.  We can then learn about how we work and apply that to the rest of the universe and see if it fits.  If it does, then we're not special and simply part of the universe.  If it doesn't, then we figure out why.

Thinking that the earth is special is very pretentious.  Granted, earth is the only place in the universe known to harbor life.  But, then again, how much of the universe have we actually explored?

You assume that there is a universe to explore.

The FE doesn't exist within a universe?  ???  :o

As the planets are relatively small, and the stars are nothing more than points of light, I wouldn't say that there's much to explore.

How can you know for sure that there isn't much to explore unless you try?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.