Let's try explaining tides again!

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SurfGuy

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Let's try explaining tides again!
« on: February 28, 2010, 08:08:51 PM »
Round Earth Theory: tides are caused by the gravity of the moon.

Flat Earth Theory: The moon is a spotlight, 32 miles in diameter.

How does FET explain tides?  Keep in mind that tides are synchronized perfectly with the moon's orbit, and the "height" of high tide changes with time in a given location.

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SurfGuy

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2010, 09:09:23 PM »
Also remember that when it's high tide on one side of the Earth, it's low tide on the opposite side.

Here's a link clarifying what I meant by "tide at a given location," look at the tide chart halfway down the page.  http://www.surfline.com/surfline/forecasts4/forecast_blog.cfm?month=8&year=2008
No it isn't. It's high tide on both sides and low in between. Learn your own theory please.

My mistake.  Deleted.

Now that we've established the right tidal pattern, the FE explanation of tides must explain why, when it's high tide on opposite sides of the Earth, it's low tide in between.

Here's the link to that tide chart again (about halfway down): http://www.surfline.com/surfline/forecasts4/forecast_blog.cfm?month=8&year=2008
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 07:12:29 AM by SurfGuy »

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Drdevice

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 10:29:05 AM »
I'm gonna say its probably gonna fall under the anti sun and moon that are on the under side of the world. Or is the anti moon above us?

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BRIKROYSTER

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 10:37:40 AM »
Also remember that when it's high tide on one side of the Earth, it's low tide on the opposite side.

Here's a link clarifying what I meant by "tide at a given location," look at the tide chart halfway down the page.  http://www.surfline.com/surfline/forecasts4/forecast_blog.cfm?month=8&year=2008
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SurfGuy

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 11:16:27 AM »
I'm gonna say its probably gonna fall under the anti sun and moon that are on the under side of the world. Or is the anti moon above us?

The antimoon's above us.  It's between the sun & moon according to the FAQ, but the FEers on this post: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=35618.0 say it's just below the moon. 

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SurfGuy

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 02:08:49 PM »
2 low tides and 2 high tides have passed since this was posted, and the FEers are still stumped.

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2fst4u

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 02:29:59 PM »
Also remember that when it's high tide on one side of the Earth, it's low tide on the opposite side.

Here's a link clarifying what I meant by "tide at a given location," look at the tide chart halfway down the page.  http://www.surfline.com/surfline/forecasts4/forecast_blog.cfm?month=8&year=2008
I LIKE BUTTSEX
Did you know you can edit the quote text?
Did you know other people can actually delete their own posts? How about you leave now.

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BRIKROYSTER

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 02:48:34 PM »
Also remember that when it's high tide on one side of the Earth, it's low tide on the opposite side.

Here's a link clarifying what I meant by "tide at a given location," look at the tide chart halfway down the page.  http://www.surfline.com/surfline/forecasts4/forecast_blog.cfm?month=8&year=2008
I LIKE BUTTSEX
Did you know you can edit the quote text?
Did you know other people can actually delete their own posts? How about you leave now.
por que, senor?

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 02:56:11 PM »
The tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon and submoon.
If you can't argue both sid!es, you understand neither

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2fst4u

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 02:57:47 PM »
por que, senor?
No actually, stay. I'll just wait for you to get bant. Your presence isn't exactly helpful.


The tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon and submoon.
Show me evidence of a submoon. Other than "It must exist for our theory to work".

Things that large in the sky are generally observable and if nobody has ever seen it, it is safe to say that it either doesn't exist, or probability has forced every single person to never look in the specific place that it is. I'd go with the former.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 03:00:18 PM by 2fst4u »

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SurfGuy

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 03:42:18 PM »
The tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon and submoon.

WRONG!  Your FAQ clearly states that the moon is a spotlight, 32 miles in diameter.  A spotlight of that size couldn't possibly have enough mass to make a gravitational field strong enough to affect the tides.

Even if it could, it wouldn't make the tidal pattern that exists on Earth (high tide on opposite sides with low tide in between).

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BRIKROYSTER

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2010, 03:49:25 PM »
por que, senor?
No actually, stay. I'll just wait for you to get bant. Your presence isn't exactly helpful.
Oh noes, not bant! i dont wanna be bant! theres no way i could possibly make another account!

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2010, 03:51:54 PM »
Keep low-content and off-topic posting out of the upper boards.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Drdevice

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2010, 08:33:29 PM »
They could just lock the boards again to keep people like you out.

Any way, does the sub moon have a pushing affect? I think I remeber reading that it follows the Over moon around exactly, how does this explain the second tide?

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BRIKROYSTER

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2010, 08:41:54 PM »
They could just lock the boards again to keep people like you out.

Any way, does the sub moon have a pushing affect? I think I remeber reading that it follows the Over moon around exactly, how does this explain the second tide?
If that happens, I win.

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Drdevice

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2010, 09:13:05 PM »
Not really they could just restrict it to invite only so that you would have to email and convince one of them that you should be let on the form, then you would have to make email accounts over and over again to resist banning. I'm not sure if this site allows it but they might just simply ban your IP address. Or you could just conform and not be childish, taking criticisms like an adult and keeping your low content posts off the upper boards.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 09:14:44 PM by Drdevice »

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BRIKROYSTER

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2010, 09:22:00 PM »
oh no, you mean i wouldnt be able to get on this wonderful intellectual forum?

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EddyRose

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2010, 01:46:05 AM »
Well I'm a HE'er (Hollow Earth Theory Believer) rather than a FE'er, but assuming their model of a flat earth is as simple as it seems, the tides could easily be explained by a gentle rocking back and forth motion, a gentle swirl even, of the platelet.

With the hollow earth theory, the moon (and to a lesser degree, the sun) create a drag on the water, pulling it back so to speak, while the general rotation of the hollow earth keeps the water pressed down upon the inner surface upon which we are held against by the same centrifugal, or as some suggest, centripital, force.

Note that when the moon is full, the tides are at their highest and lowest, and that the higher tides are always at night, which just happens to coincide with the full moon being on that same side of the planet right at night (note the moon only 'rises' more or less at sunset when it is full).

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SurfGuy

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2010, 07:11:52 AM »
Well I'm a HE'er (Hollow Earth Theory Believer) rather than a FE'er, but assuming their model of a flat earth is as simple as it seems, the tides could easily be explained by a gentle rocking back and forth motion, a gentle swirl even, of the platelet.

With the hollow earth theory, the moon (and to a lesser degree, the sun) create a drag on the water, pulling it back so to speak, while the general rotation of the hollow earth keeps the water pressed down upon the inner surface upon which we are held against by the same centrifugal, or as some suggest, centripital, force.

Note that when the moon is full, the tides are at their highest and lowest, and that the higher tides are always at night, which just happens to coincide with the full moon being on that same side of the planet right at night (note the moon only 'rises' more or less at sunset when it is full).

A "gentle swirl" wouldn't be a valid explanation because that wouldn't make the correct tidal pattern.  It would also make tides much higher and lower in the Southern hemisphere, which isn't the case.

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2010, 10:50:42 AM »
No, the submoon is not directly below the moon (in that an imaginary line that connects the center of the submoon and the center of the moon is not normal to the surface of the Earth.)

The moon/submoon are clearly not 32 miles in diameter.

The moon/submoon cause tides by the gravitational pull of each body as they "orbit".
If you can't argue both sid!es, you understand neither

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2fst4u

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2010, 11:05:21 AM »
No, the submoon is not directly below the moon (in that an imaginary line that connects the center of the submoon and the center of the moon is not normal to the surface of the Earth.)

The moon/submoon are clearly not 32 miles in diameter.

The moon/submoon cause tides by the gravitational pull of each body as they "orbit".
Wait a minute...

The moon and the non-existent sub-moon have a gravitational pull? So their mass's are acting upon other mass's to create gravitational force? And this Flat Earth you speak of is rather large, correct? And it exists, correct? So it must have a gravitational pull on every single person who is standing on the earth.

Gravity = correct
Gravitation and the stupid 'Earth accelerating' theory = incorrect.

You just said it.

I win.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2010, 11:22:24 AM »
Wait a minute...

The moon and the non-existent sub-moon have a gravitational pull? So their mass's are acting upon other mass's to create gravitational force? And this Flat Earth you speak of is rather large, correct? And it exists, correct? So it must have a gravitational pull on every single person who is standing on the earth.

Gravity = correct
Gravitation and the stupid 'Earth accelerating' theory = incorrect.

You just said it.

I win.


 ::)


From the FAQ:


Physics

In John Davis's model, the Earth is an infinite plane and is 9000 kilometers deep.

. . .

A3: In John Davis's model, the infinite plane produces a finite gravitational field with a downward pull. Here is the mathematical formulation behind this model.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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2fst4u

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2010, 11:30:34 AM »
We already proved that a flat thing can't provide a [roughly] equal finite gravitational pull world-wide.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2010, 11:33:35 AM »
We already proved that a flat thing can't provide a [roughly] equal finite gravitational pull world-wide.


Not that I've seen. However, the point is that you didn't 'win' anything - John doesn't believe in the accelerating Earth model.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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2fst4u

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2010, 11:39:47 AM »
We already proved that a flat thing can't provide a [roughly] equal finite gravitational pull world-wide.


Not that I've seen. However, the point is that you didn't 'win' anything - John doesn't believe in the accelerating Earth model.
I still won, it's just that we both won. And I'm all for sharing.

But it means that either:
1.He is right and gravity exists to create tides
2. Other FETs are right and gravity doesn't exist, but tides are still unexplained
2. RET is right.

The problem with FET is that there are too many variations and each is used at different times to argue specific points. Take this as an example, a model involving gravity is being used to argue how tides work, but the model itself conflicts with other models. RET is one model that works to argue all points of the theory. You really really really need to come up with one model, otherwise you are in danger of coming up with lots and lots of conflicting bullshit.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2010, 11:41:56 AM »
Please, there are loads of RE models. Don't be so hypocritcal.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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2fst4u

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2010, 11:45:19 AM »
Please, there are loads of RE models. Don't be so hypocritcal.
ORLY? Not as far as I'm aware. Show me.

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Lord Wilmore

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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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2fst4u

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2010, 12:00:01 PM »
No one (bar one or two) believes in those alternate theories. We pretty much all agree on one simple round-tectonic-movement-altered-gravity-existing-convex model. You guys however, are a hodge podge of different theories.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Let's try explaining tides again!
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2010, 12:02:43 PM »
No one (bar one or two) believes in those alternate theories. We pretty much all agree on one simple round-tectonic-movement-altered-gravity-existing-convex model. You guys however, are a hodge podge of different theories.


Typical RE'er double-standards. One or two of us disagreeing is unacceptable, but one or two of you disagreeing is okay? In any event, you're wrong: HE theory has quite a few followers.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord