War on Christmas, papa bear Bill is at it again

BREAKING NEWS

Discordian Society grows tired of reports of non-existent "Wars on Christmas", declares actual War on Christmas.

A Declaration of War on Christmas

Once again, it is that time of year. That wondrous, magical time of year where the official mouthpieces, who believe they speak for Popular Opinion, take up their pens and decry us for not celebrating the birth of their fake Prophet with sufficient seriousness and reverence.

Like clockwork, we see this happen every year.  And every year we are disappointed.  A council here names a celebration in non-denominational terms.  A made-up story about Christmas trees being renamed.  Lots of angry shouting about atheists and secular humanists and - worst of all -  those of other faiths, perniciously undermining the most precious event in all History.

We have had enough.  Every year we are promised a war on Christmas and instead we get these weak offerings, these skirmishes at the boundaries of the Culture Wars.  This isn?t a war; it?s not even humanitarian intervention.  Pathetic.  One starts to wonder if the Christian crusaders have lost their stomach for a real fight, but cannot resist the siren call of the ceremony and pomp of battle.  Far safer to defend something no-one intends to attack, correct?

Well, no longer.

We of the Discordian Society are declaring a War on Christmas.  Not one of these poor imitations, begging for crumbs of respect from the Papists and Bible-bashers, as if the Christian hierarchies could ever bring themselves to respect those who are not of the faith.  No, we want no "respect", no recognition or nice little multicultural names for the ceremonies.  We wish to abolish the celebration of Christmas from the pages of history, and to scatter its charred remains over the deepest ocean trenches.  You've hollered on for years about every minor affront, and now you've bought real destruction down on your heads.

No sympathy and no compromise.  You've talked about a war for so long; we can only assume you really do want one.  And we, unlike your milquetoast targets, are more than willing it to you.

There is ample reason, after all, beside your petulant whining and constant foot-stamping (though that is more than cause enough).  In Christmas there is something quite sinister, after all.  The insistence that we must celebrate, that there are regimented forms we must follow to have a good time.  Official propaganda is everywhere, and children are indoctrinated to hassle those who do not play along.  Repetitive and dull audio will be played, not only in public but on every radio and TV station as well.  There is something of a jackboot to Santa's footwear, is there not?

And if that is not enough, we could always consider what we are really celebrating.  Christianity is only inoffensive now, after over 1500 years of struggle to contain it, and even then this is only so in Europe and North America.  As an institution, it only acts good because we have forced it to do so, because these centuries of struggle have constrained its options.  When that was not the case though, criticism was answered through imprisonment, the stake and the rack.  Even today, in Uganda, we see that those who suffer from AIDS may be executed (and seven years in prison for those who defend homosexual lifestyles), at the promotion of Christian fundamentalist legislators, ruling under a Christian fundamentalist dictator.  Christian aid groups deny funding and access to those who promote safe sex, or non-traditional families.  The Vatican manages to quash any mention of overpopulation at discussions about global warming, despite it being a major contributing factor.  No doubt we would see far worse, if not for our more secular, democratic and atheist tendencies.

Is this the sort of religion we really wish to adulate and sing the praises of?  "Peace and goodwill to all men" is a cheap joke.  And it is about time everyone else woke up to that fact.

Don't worry about looking for us, instead we will find you.  The most urgent expression of freedom is the destruction of idols, and this one is long overdue a hammer in its direction.  This unanimous, servile enthusiasm can no longer be tolerated.

BREAKING NEWS

Discordian Society grows tired of reports of non-existent "Wars on Christmas", declares actual War on Christmas.

Quote from: HIMEOBS News Outlet

BAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!

I'm worried.  Srsly.

Discordian Society? Seems sort of oxy-moronical?

The sooner you understand that modern media is not news, it is entertainment, the better off you'll be.

I want all of you to get up out of your chairs.  I want you to get up right now and go to the window.  Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"  I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell — "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!"  Things have got to change.  But first, you've gotta get mad!  You've got to say, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!"  Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis.  But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

I don't know how many people here have read Vonnegut, but " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> this pissed me off.

We need a zombie Walter Cronkite.

Quote from: Sadistic on December 07, 2009, 07:03:10 AM

Quote from: theonlydann on December 06, 2009, 01:08:14 PM

Quote from: EireEngineer on December 06, 2009, 09:14:56 AM

Quote from: theonlydann on December 06, 2009, 06:39:33 AM

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on December 06, 2009, 06:38:07 AM

Quote from: Sadistic on December 06, 2009, 01:11:53 AM

Sometimes Bill just gets me to laugh so hard, I mean, you couldn't fabricate satire this good.

Honestly, O'Reilly is almost impossible to watch. My cringe-o-meter exploded when he started saying "baby jesus".

Agreed. I find Bill O'Reily to embody basically everything that is wrong with news these days.

Newsflash.....he does opinion, not news.

and Fox passes it off as news.

Therefore he is everything that is wrong with the news. OR, more specifically Fox News. Fair and balanced my ass.

No this

God knows the others are fair and balanced </sarcasm>

So why than would you base your opinions off somone elses opinions? Lrn2primary source.

Quote from: Mykael on December 09, 2009, 12:06:52 PM

BREAKING NEWS

Discordian Society grows tired of reports of non-existent "Wars on Christmas", declares actual War on Christmas.

Quote from: HIMEOBS News Outlet

BAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!

I'm worried.  Srsly.

That's good. The government likes their citizens in a perpetual state of low-grade fear.

Discordian Society? Seems sort of oxy-moronical?

Yep.

Quote from theonlydann.. "

Quote from: Chris Spaghetti on December 07, 2009, 01:47:29 AM

I haven't watched the video but I reckon I can work out what he's talking about:
-Some people calling xmas 'winterfest' or some such.
-Ranting about people who don't like xmas.
-XMAS IS ABOUT JEEEESUS YOU PINHEAD!

Not really Chris. Watch the video. 

First off:  Chris S - in a religious thread you acted like you did not believe in God, but here you say Xmas is about Jesus - so I'm not really sure where you stand.

Second:  Haven't you guys figured out by now that the government flip flops on issues, and are hypocrites? 

Government buildings, city halls, court rooms, and etc across this land do not have any replicas of, or verbage about the 10 commandments, and the government has said in the past that THIS is not the place for that, yet every government building in the U.S. has Xmas trees put up every year for the holiday season.  So do they or do they not believe in the bible - because they basically have said with the Xmas tree that they believe in Jesus and want to celebrate his birth, yet commandments are not allowed in these very same buildings.  So because xmas is socially and politically correct - it's Ok to display their affection for Jesus, the son of God, and show a belief in Him, and the bible at that time of the year, but not in the bible at any other time of the year?  Flip flop flip flop.

Government buildings, city halls, court rooms, and etc across this land do not have any replicas of, or verbage about the 10 commandments, and the government has said in the past that THIS is not the place for that, yet every government building in the U.S. has Xmas trees put up every year for the holiday season.  So do they or do they not believe in the bible - because they basically have said with the Xmas tree that they believe in Jesus and want to celebrate his birth, yet commandments are not allowed in these very same buildings. So because xmas is socially and politically correct - it's Ok to display their affection for Jesus, the son of God, and show a belief in Him, and the bible at that time of the year, but not in the bible at any other time of the year?  Flip flop flip flop.

I'm not seeing the chain of logic where Christmas Tree ----> Belief in Jesus Christ. The christmas tree was originally a pagan symbol, representating the rebirth that the earth begins on winter Solstice (a pine tree is used because it does not lose it's leaves/needles in the winter, and therefore symbolzes eternal life or immortality).

Also, First Amendment. The Christmas Tree (despite the name) is a symbol recognized by many faiths, and therefore displaying one is allowed. There's also the "Holiday Tree" loophole. The ten Commandments, however, are strictly Judeo-Christian. Displaying them would be signifying that the government is Christian, which violates the seperation of Church and State.

And believe me, Separation of Church and State is there for a good reason. Bad things happen when you mess with it.

And believe me, Separation of Church and State is there for a good reason. Bad things happen when you mess with it.

Like Cecil Bothwell being denied access to the City Council?

Quote from: Mykael on December 13, 2009, 09:35:14 PM

And believe me, Separation of Church and State is there for a good reason. Bad things happen when you mess with it.

Like Cecil Bothwell being denied access to the City Council?

Like that, yes, but it also opens the door for (and encourages) bigger abuses/discrimination.

The christmas tree was originally a pagan symbol, representating the rebirth that the earth begins on winter Solstice (a pine tree is used because it does not lose it's leaves/needles in the winter, and therefore symbolzes eternal life or immortality).

I am seriously tired of all this bullshit.

Did you notice this at the end of that sentence?  

[citation needed]

Did you read further down in that exact same section and notice this?  

In contrast to asserted pagan roots for the Christmas tree, there are also various legends of Christian origins for the tradition.

Did you further notice at the end of that paragraph was this?  

[2]

 You do know what that means right?

Of course we could also look here. http://www.christmasarchives.com/trees.html

Or maybe this one. http://www.allabouthistory.org/history-of-the-christmas-tree.htm

How about this one. http://www.christmastree.org/history.cfm


You can take the pagan bullshit elsewhere.  No one is buying it.  

Quote from theonlydann.. "

Quote

Quote from: theonlydann on December 07, 2009, 05:28:41 AM

Quote from: Chris Spaghetti on December 07, 2009, 01:47:29 AM

I haven't watched the video but I reckon I can work out what he's talking about:
-Some people calling xmas 'winterfest' or some such.
-Ranting about people who don't like xmas.
-XMAS IS ABOUT JEEEESUS YOU PINHEAD!

Not really Chris. Watch the video. 

First off:  Chris S - in a religious thread you acted like you did not believe in God, but here you say Xmas is about Jesus - so I'm not really sure where you stand.

Second:  Haven't you guys figured out by now that the government flip flops on issues, and are hypocrites? 

Government buildings, city halls, court rooms, and etc across this land do not have any replicas of, or verbage about the 10 commandments, and the government has said in the past that THIS is not the place for that, yet every government building in the U.S. has Xmas trees put up every year for the holiday season.  So do they or do they not believe in the bible - because they basically have said with the Xmas tree that they believe in Jesus and want to celebrate his birth, yet commandments are not allowed in these very same buildings.  So because xmas is socially and politically correct - it's Ok to display their affection for Jesus, the son of God, and show a belief in Him, and the bible at that time of the year, but not in the bible at any other time of the year?  Flip flop flip flop.

He was making fun of Billo with his pinhead jeebus comment.

Quote from: Mykael on December 13, 2009, 09:30:38 PM

The christmas tree was originally a pagan symbol, representating the rebirth that the earth begins on winter Solstice (a pine tree is used because it does not lose it's leaves/needles in the winter, and therefore symbolzes eternal life or immortality).

I am seriously tired of all this bullshit.

Did you notice this at the end of that sentence?  

Quote

[citation needed]

Did you read further down in that exact same section and notice this?  

Quote

In contrast to asserted pagan roots for the Christmas tree, there are also various legends of Christian origins for the tradition.

Did you further notice at the end of that paragraph was this?  

Quote

[2]

 You do know what that means right?

Of course we could also look here. http://www.christmasarchives.com/trees.html

Or maybe this one. http://www.allabouthistory.org/history-of-the-christmas-tree.htm

How about this one. http://www.christmastree.org/history.cfm


You can take the pagan bullshit elsewhere.  No one is buying it.  

There are multiple origin stories for the Christmas Tree, several of which are pagan. Does this touch a nerve?

There are multiple origin stories for the Christmas Tree, several of which are pagan. Does this touch a nerve?

And you people laugh at the religious.  As long as its not actual "religion" you believe it.  It is actually quite comical.

Quote from: Mykael on December 14, 2009, 06:45:08 AM

There are multiple origin stories for the Christmas Tree, several of which are pagan. Does this touch a nerve?

And you people laugh at the religious.  As long as its not actual "religion" you believe it.  It is actually quite comical.

Where have I ever said that I laugh at the religious?

I laugh at the ignorant and illogical. If ignorance and religion happen to coincide every now and then... well, that's certainly not my fault.


Also, there are very few things that I believe in. Anything other than my absolute core values/beliefs is subject to change at any time.

Quote from: babsinva on December 13, 2009, 09:04:59 PM

Government buildings, city halls, court rooms, and etc across this land do not have any replicas of, or verbage about the 10 commandments, and the government has said in the past that THIS is not the place for that, yet every government building in the U.S. has Xmas trees put up every year for the holiday season.  So do they or do they not believe in the bible - because they basically have said with the Xmas tree that they believe in Jesus and want to celebrate his birth, yet commandments are not allowed in these very same buildings. So because xmas is socially and politically correct - it's Ok to display their affection for Jesus, the son of God, and show a belief in Him, and the bible at that time of the year, but not in the bible at any other time of the year?  Flip flop flip flop.

I'm not seeing the chain of logic where Christmas Tree ----> Belief in Jesus Christ. The christmas tree was originally a pagan symbol, representating the rebirth that the earth begins on winter Solstice (a pine tree is used because it does not lose it's leaves/needles in the winter, and therefore symbolzes eternal life or immortality).

Also, First Amendment. The Christmas Tree (despite the name) is a symbol recognized by many faiths, and therefore displaying one is allowed. There's also the "Holiday Tree" loophole. The ten Commandments, however, are strictly Judeo-Christian. Displaying them would be signifying that the government is Christian, which violates the seperation of Church and State.

Ok Mykael.... Do not confuse what I say, with how YOU think I think or feel.  I do not celebrate xmas that way.  It was simply a statement - and a fact that companies and governments do THIS - no that I do this.  When you said you could not see the chain of logic - then proceeded to explain it was a pagan custom - so you ask, well... babs how can you say that then?  That's because Joe Public, the companies they work for, and the governments they work for DO NOT KNOW it is of pagan origins, which is why they still celebrate for they do not know it, but instead think it's Christian based.  It is true that many a xmas tree has been erected in many countries, some that are Christianity based and others are not, however in the USA we mainly are of Christian faith and xmas trees go up to celebrate the occasion of Christ's birth - and for those few weeks they act like they believe in God, Jesus, and the bible, but the rest of the year they do not.  For those who are NOT of Christian faith and do not believe in the same God or even Jesus, - they too may put up a tree whether that's because Western culture has influenced them, or whether they know upfront its pagan and like it, or maybe just as an excuse to get presents and take time off from work.  There may be many reasons why, however we are talking about this country- USA.   

Also it's not just a tree they erect, for companies and government also will:

1) Allow their employees to have a half day off from work (paid) to leave early to xmas shop, a couple weeks prior to the day of shutdown. 

2) Utilize a grab bag method for exchanging gifts at work, and the name you draw, is the person for whom you will buy a present for, with a certain ceiling or cap of course, and you are their "Secret Santa."

3) Close down on Xmas day and early on xmas eve in honor of the "Christian" celebration of Christ's birth.

You don't find companies and governments in the U.S. celebrating Hanukkah or Kwanzaa, or even allow Asians shortly thereafter to celebrate the Chinese New Year, but there is partiality towards Christian holidays in this country.  Some people who are not of Christian religion feel that this is shoved in their face for a religion they don't believe in, and yet when they want to celebrate their own religious holidays they must ASK for time off from work.  In fact for many years (and I think they still do), Philip Morris cigarette manufacturing company gives their employees "Good Friday" off- just before Easter.  Does P.M. or any other big company or government say.... well this year folks we're taking off for "Yom Kippur?"  NO.  So Mykael, while you are correct that trees are erected in many countries even those of non-Christian faith, there still does seem to be a bias in favor of Christian celebrated holidays.

However I must say, I am impressed at your knowlege of the pagan symbol.  Kudos.     

Quote from: Mykael on December 14, 2009, 06:45:08 AM

There are multiple origin stories for the Christmas Tree, several of which are pagan. Does this touch a nerve?

And you people laugh at the religious.  As long as its not actual "religion" you believe it.  It is actually quite comical.

If you attribute cutting down a tree, putting it in your house, putting decorations on it and believing that some mystical man, who posses god-like omniscience upon how moral you have been, brings you presents, to a Christian holiday, I must say sir, your fucking crazy.

Quote from: Mykael on December 13, 2009, 09:30:38 PM

Quote from: babsinva on December 13, 2009, 09:04:59 PM

Government buildings, city halls, court rooms, and etc across this land do not have any replicas of, or verbage about the 10 commandments, and the government has said in the past that THIS is not the place for that, yet every government building in the U.S. has Xmas trees put up every year for the holiday season.  So do they or do they not believe in the bible - because they basically have said with the Xmas tree that they believe in Jesus and want to celebrate his birth, yet commandments are not allowed in these very same buildings. So because xmas is socially and politically correct - it's Ok to display their affection for Jesus, the son of God, and show a belief in Him, and the bible at that time of the year, but not in the bible at any other time of the year?  Flip flop flip flop.

I'm not seeing the chain of logic where Christmas Tree ----> Belief in Jesus Christ. The christmas tree was originally a pagan symbol, representating the rebirth that the earth begins on winter Solstice (a pine tree is used because it does not lose it's leaves/needles in the winter, and therefore symbolzes eternal life or immortality).

Also, First Amendment. The Christmas Tree (despite the name) is a symbol recognized by many faiths, and therefore displaying one is allowed. There's also the "Holiday Tree" loophole. The ten Commandments, however, are strictly Judeo-Christian. Displaying them would be signifying that the government is Christian, which violates the seperation of Church and State.

Ok Mykael.... Do not confuse what I say, with how YOU think I think or feel.  I do not celebrate xmas that way.  It was simply a statement - and a fact that companies and governments do THIS - no that I do this.  When you said you could not see the chain of logic - then proceeded to explain it was a pagan custom - so you ask, well... babs how can you say that then?  That's because Joe Public, the companies they work for, and the governments they work for DO NOT KNOW it is of pagan origins, which is why they still celebrate for they do not know it, but instead think it's Christian based.  It is true that many a xmas tree has been erected in many countries, some that are Christianity based and others are not, however in the USA we mainly are of Christian faith and xmas trees go up to celebrate the occasion of Christ's birth - and for those few weeks they act like they believe in God, Jesus, and the bible, but the rest of the year they do not.  For those who are NOT of Christian faith and do not believe in the same God or even Jesus, - they too may put up a tree whether that's because Western culture has influenced them, or whether they know upfront its pagan and like it, or maybe just as an excuse to get presents and take time off from work.  There may be many reasons why, however we are talking about this country- USA.   

Also it's not just a tree they erect, for companies and government also will:

1) Allow their employees to have a half day off from work (paid) to leave early to xmas shop, a couple weeks prior to the day of shutdown. 

2) Utilize a grab bag method for exchanging gifts at work, and the name you draw, is the person for whom you will buy a present for, with a certain ceiling or cap of course, and you are their "Secret Santa."

3) Close down on Xmas day and early on xmas eve in honor of the "Christian" celebration of Christ's birth.

You don't find companies and governments in the U.S. celebrating Hanukkah or Kwanzaa, or even allow Asians shortly thereafter to celebrate the Chinese New Year, but there is partiality towards Christian holidays in this country.  Some people who are not of Christian religion feel that this is shoved in their face for a religion they don't believe in, and yet when they want to celebrate their own religious holidays they must ASK for time off from work.  In fact for many years (and I think they still do), Philip Morris cigarette manufacturing company gives their employees "Good Friday" off- just before Easter.  Does P.M. or any other big company or government say.... well this year folks we're taking off for "Yom Kippur?"  NO.  So Mykael, while you are correct that trees are erected in many countries even those of non-Christian faith, there still does seem to be a bias in favor of Christian celebrated holidays.

However I must say, I am impressed at your knowlege of the pagan symbol.  Kudos.     

Okay, that makes sense. Point conceded.

You can take the pagan bullshit elsewhere.  No one is buying it.  

Well personally (but like millions of others) I'm more inclined to believe the pagan origins. The Christian one just seems fake and tacked on IMO.

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on December 14, 2009, 08:35:12 AM

Quote from: Mykael on December 14, 2009, 06:45:08 AM

There are multiple origin stories for the Christmas Tree, several of which are pagan. Does this touch a nerve?

And you people laugh at the religious.  As long as its not actual "religion" you believe it.  It is actually quite comical.

If you attribute cutting down a tree, putting it in your house, putting decorations on it and believing that some mystical man, who posses god-like omniscience upon how moral you have been, brings you presents, to a Christian holiday, I must say sir, your fucking crazy.

My fucking crazy what?

Wardogg & Mykael and others ... As you know I am a creationist and Christian, and many times Wardogg you and I have been more on agreement of things, with Mykael and I being less on agreement of things, but here it is reversed, for Mykael is actually correct.

Quote from: Sadistic on December 14, 2009, 01:28:46 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on December 14, 2009, 08:35:12 AM

Quote from: Mykael on December 14, 2009, 06:45:08 AM

There are multiple origin stories for the Christmas Tree, several of which are pagan. Does this touch a nerve?

And you people laugh at the religious.  As long as its not actual "religion" you believe it.  It is actually quite comical.

If you attribute cutting down a tree, putting it in your house, putting decorations on it and believing that some mystical man, who posses god-like omniscience upon how moral you have been, brings you presents, to a Christian holiday, I must say sir, your fucking crazy.

My fucking crazy what?

Here are the links you provided as examples...

Of course we could also look here. http://www.christmasarchives.com/trees.html

Or maybe this one. http://www.allabouthistory.org/history-of-the-christmas-tree.htm

How about this one. http://www.christmastree.org/history.cfm

You can take the pagan bullshit elsewhere.  No one is buying it.

But there are older more reliable references that go back to prior to Jesus' time than the ones you cited.  Your links talk more about the xmas tree and how it was displayed, when it was displayed, but does not address too much about the actual origins of Xmas itself.

There were actually many pagan traditions and holidays and here they are in chronological order:

#1) The Roman Saturnalia ( a festival dedicated to Saturn, the god of agriculture, and to the renewed power of the sun ) and was first introduced around 217 B.C. to raise citizen morale after a crushing military defeat.  Originally it was one day starting on Dec 17, which after gaining popularity lasted for 7 days, although some say 8 - for there is disambiguation there, which would carry that up to Christmas Eve.

#2) Next came Sol with various epithets such as Sol Invictus or Solis Invicti, with the full name being "dies natalis Solis Invicti," which is the birthday of the invincible sun and the celebration is Dec 25th, which is the Roman date for the winter solstice.  This was the first detectable lengthening of daylight hours, and was first celebrated in late 200 A.D.  Later the phrase was coined as Natalis Invicti meaning the birthday of the unconquered one .  It had extended epithets later (with added verbage) as it arrived on coins.  This holiday was celebrated by pagans, and early Christians rejected it at first.  Early Christians even rejected birthdays down to the 4th century A.D.   

#3) Following this holiday was the one called Kalenda, but I may be mispelling it, and it will be hard to find info on that one, other than in the Jewish Talmud, and possibly some ancient writings or old secular books in your library, but I doubt you'd find that one online.

Note:   There were many other pagan holidays, prior to the xmas season, and again after the xmas season.  I will not name them all.


Here are some cited reference material for you from Online...

#1) The Free Dictionary
ThesaurusLegend:  Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun   1.   Saturnalia - an orgiastic festival in ancient Rome in honor of Saturn
festival, fete - an organized series of acts and performances (usually in one place); "a drama festival"
   2.   saturnalia - a wild gathering involving excessive drinking and promiscuity
debauch, debauchery, drunken revelry, bacchanalia, bacchanal, orgy, riot
revel, revelry - unrestrained merrymaking

#2) Merriam Webster’s Dictionary
2 singular, plural saturnalias also saturnalia a : an unrestrained often licentious celebration : ORGY b : EXCESS, EXTRAVAGANCE

#3) Msn Encarta Dictionary
Sat•ur•na•li•a [ sàtt?r náylee ? ]
plural noun
Definition:
Roman festival of Saturn: an ancient Roman festival of feasting and revelry in celebration of the god Saturn and the winter solstice.mid-December
 
 

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on December 14, 2009, 08:35:12 AM

Quote from: Mykael on December 14, 2009, 06:45:08 AM

There are multiple origin stories for the Christmas Tree, several of which are pagan. Does this touch a nerve?

And you people laugh at the religious.  As long as its not actual "religion" you believe it.  It is actually quite comical.

Where have I ever said that I laugh at the religious?

I laugh at the ignorant and illogical. If ignorance and religion happen to coincide every now and then... well, that's certainly not my fault.


Also, there are very few things that I believe in. Anything other than my absolute core values/beliefs is subject to change at any time.

If ignorance and religion happen to coincide?  Religion is the last bastion of the incurious.  Having a book that claims to have unquestionable answers to questions like the origin or the universe, the origin of man, life etc. mandate ignorance.

The general "pagan" tradition was to bring greenery into the home as kind of preservation of life and to ward off evil spirits.

Got this from a wiki answers page:

Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (KJV).

Quote from: Mykael on December 14, 2009, 10:21:45 AM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on December 14, 2009, 08:35:12 AM

Quote from: Mykael on December 14, 2009, 06:45:08 AM

There are multiple origin stories for the Christmas Tree, several of which are pagan. Does this touch a nerve?

And you people laugh at the religious.  As long as its not actual "religion" you believe it.  It is actually quite comical.

Where have I ever said that I laugh at the religious?

I laugh at the ignorant and illogical. If ignorance and religion happen to coincide every now and then... well, that's certainly not my fault.


Also, there are very few things that I believe in. Anything other than my absolute core values/beliefs is subject to change at any time.

If ignorance and religion happen to coincide?  Religion is the last bastion of the incurious.  Having a book that claims to have unquestionable answers to questions like the origin or the universe, the origin of man, life etc. mandate ignorance.

Well yeah, but I'm trying to be all polite and stuff.

You can take the pagan bullshit elsewhere.  No one is buying it.  

Kind of ironic that the proof that Wardogg is talking out of his ass comes from the bible.

The bible warning about the Pagan tradition of cutting down a tree, standing it up, and decorating it:

2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

http://kingjbible.com/jeremiah/10.htm

This passage is condemning idolatry, not decorating trees. But it shows quite clearly that the Christians were not the first ones to decorate trees.

This passage is condemning idolatry, not decorating trees.

Except that the passage suggests that decorating a the tree is a form of idolatry, or vanity.

Quote from: Masterchef on December 19, 2009, 12:02:21 PM

This passage is condemning idolatry, not decorating trees.

Except that the passage suggests that decorating a the tree is a form of idolatry, or vanity.

I think the more common interpretation is against worshiping said tree as an idol.