Weee...questions.

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HTD

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Weee...questions.
« on: September 14, 2009, 07:24:31 PM »
Alrighty. So I talked to a friend about this place and we came up with some questions that we'd like the Flat Earth Society to explain from their perspective. She had a bunch of great ideas, but many of them I was able to explain using your guys logic and what I've read, but there were a few I jotted down that I couldn't come up with an answer for.

1. Why do coordinates work? The system the world uses applies to a round system. If you tell an airplane your exact coordinates, they'll get there in the time alotted by that system.

2. What's keeping the air on earth (applies somewhat to question 3)? There is no gravity. The world is simply accelerating upwards. What's stopping it from rolling off the sides?

3. Is there an o-zone layer? How does it work? My friend drew some diagrams I shall provide below (badly) with explanations.


Alright. If there is an o-zone layer, the thing is it'd have to be an absolutely perfect fit, like in the first image. If it overshoots it at all, there will be water loss and eventually the earth would dry up over much time. If it undershoots, well, that's bad too. Of course, that only applies to the RE thing, now that I think about it. What is causing global warming then?

4. How does star navigation work then? People have used it forever in sailing. It wouldn't work like that with the flat earth model.

5. If are all the stars are 3100 miles up (I believe that was the number)...how does the Triangulation Theory work?

6. If the sun and moon are on opposite ends, why can you see both in the sky at the same time? And if the reason if night and day is the sun getting further away, why doesn't the sun get smaller as it gets further? It stays roughly the same size until it disappears on the horizon.

7. How does radar work? With rader, people can prove they are flying/sailing in a straight line.

8. How is there magma under the flat earth? The reason there is magma in the earth is that the entire weight of the world is shoving down into a single point, creating heat and making the center liquid. What is keeping the middle of the flat earth nice and hot?

She has plunty of others, but we didn't have time. I'd really love explanations. I haven't seen any for those around here.

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Jack

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2009, 07:28:11 PM »
A vector field, the DEF holds the air in place. However, in Dogplatter's model, the greater ice wall holds the air in place. Please read the FAQ for more details.

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HTD

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2009, 07:33:59 PM »
A vector field, the DEF holds the air in place. However, in Dogplatter's model, the greater ice wall holds the air in place. Please read the FAQ for more details.

Alright, I will admit that I'm not very versed on Dark Energy, but I could find nothing about a DEF around earth. Is this something exclusive to FE? If so, what proof is there?

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Areweonfiya

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2009, 07:34:17 PM »
The icewall is only 150 feet high.

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HTD

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2009, 07:35:34 PM »
The icewall is only 150 feet high.

Yeah, I'm not buying the icewall keeping it in. There are mountain ranges higher then that. Air is up there. Thinner air...but it's there.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2009, 07:39:09 PM »
Quote
A2: In James McIntyre's model, the height of the ice wall increases toward the edge.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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HTD

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2009, 07:42:21 PM »
Quote
A2: In James McIntyre's model, the height of the ice wall increases toward the edge.

It would have to be thousands of feet high. We'd be able to see it...

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Zeebus

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2009, 11:20:37 PM »
HTD, it has already been established that you are able to see the wall if you travel far enough south... You will reach the wall right before you get to the edge.  Simple enough concept.

If by some chance you are implying that you can see the wall from farther away, by that token you should see airliners over Europe from the Eastern United States since they are thousands of feet up.
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HTD

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2009, 03:47:18 AM »
HTD, it has already been established that you are able to see the wall if you travel far enough south... You will reach the wall right before you get to the edge.  Simple enough concept.

If by some chance you are implying that you can see the wall from farther away, by that token you should see airliners over Europe from the Eastern United States since they are thousands of feet up.

Er. No. There is a big difference between a small plane that's a speck in the sky on another continent and a gigantic wall that encases the entire earth in a circle. Why only South? What about the wall in other directions?

Anyone wanna take a shot at the other questions?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 04:58:57 AM by HTD »

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Username

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2009, 10:28:20 AM »
The earth is an infinite plane and the atmoplane lies on top of it.
f you can't argue both sides, you understand neither

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HTD

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2009, 10:55:08 AM »
The earth is an infinite plane and the atmoplane lies on top of it.

May I see your proof?

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Username

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2009, 10:57:15 AM »
The earth is an infinite plane and the atmoplane lies on top of it.

May I see your proof?
Measure gravitational pull from the top of a mountain and at sea level, take into account mass by location, and note the lack of difference.
f you can't argue both sides, you understand neither

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Crustinator

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2009, 12:33:47 PM »
The earth is an infinite plane and the atmoplane lies on top of it.

May I see your proof?
Measure gravitational pull from the top of a mountain and at sea level, take into account mass by location, and note the lack of difference.

That's not proof of an infinite plane.

And gravity does vary with altitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_gravity#Altitude


Doublefail.

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2009, 12:42:34 PM »
The earth is an infinite plane and the atmoplane lies on top of it.

May I see your proof?
Measure gravitational pull from the top of a mountain and at sea level, take into account mass by location, and note the lack of difference.

That's not proof of an infinite plane.

And gravity does vary with altitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_gravity#Altitude


Doublefail.
Why is it not proof of an infinite plane?  Perhaps you should ask why it would be rather than assume its not.

And I am aware of the formula in RE theory.

I'm talking about experimentation. 
f you can't argue both sides, you understand neither

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Crustinator

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2009, 12:47:19 PM »
Why is it not proof of an infinite plane?  Perhaps you should ask why it would be rather than assume its not.

I'm not assuming it I'm stating it. It's not evidence for an infinite plane.

If I was to ask why it would be then I'd be trying to fit the data to the theory.

I'm talking about experimentation. 

Those results come from experimentation, as does much in RE.

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Username

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2009, 12:51:27 PM »
Why is it not proof of an infinite plane?  Perhaps you should ask why it would be rather than assume its not.

I'm not assuming it I'm stating it. It's not evidence for an infinite plane.

If I was to ask why it would be then I'd be trying to fit the data to the theory.

I'm talking about experimentation. 


Those results come from experimentation, as does much in RE.
Given an infinite earth, gravitation would not decrease with elevation.  Since you are so knowledgable, I assume you already knew this.  You must have simply forgotten.
f you can't argue both sides, you understand neither

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Crustinator

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2009, 12:56:39 PM »
Given an infinite earth, gravitation would not decrease with elevation.  Since you are so knowledgable, I assume you already knew this.  You must have simply forgotten.


Not actually true. Even if the earth were an infinte plane (with finite thickness beneath) gravity would still vary with altitude.

But anyway, since gravity does vary with altitude, this indicates your theory is wrong.

Rethink?

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Username

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2009, 01:36:49 PM »
Given an infinite earth, gravitation would not decrease with elevation.  Since you are so knowledgable, I assume you already knew this.  You must have simply forgotten.


Not actually true. Even if the earth were an infinte plane (with finite thickness beneath) gravity would still vary with altitude.

But anyway, since gravity does vary with altitude, this indicates your theory is wrong.

Rethink?
I don't believe it does and it hasn't been shown that it does.

here is the math that says it doesn't vary with altitude:


BUT since you say it wouldn't, why would a lack of change indicate my theory wrong?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 01:39:45 PM by John Davis »
f you can't argue both sides, you understand neither

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HTD

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2009, 07:04:50 PM »
Okay. Off the topic of majors...is anyone intending to try and answer the other questions? Are we just going to leave the gaping holes or are there explanations?

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Kakatary

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2009, 07:16:56 PM »
I also want to hear what answers FEers have for these questions. They're very logical questions and I think they truly deserve some answers. :) And it's not like HTD is being completely unreasonable and trolling the idea of FE, he's just wondering, like me. Anyway, if FEers don't have the answers to some of the questions asked on this website, the best answer is the truth: "I don't know". The smartest people I know use that phrase constantly. It makes us wonder, research, and experiment. That's how a lot of things were discovered and figured out.

On topic, I am eagerly waiting for the answers, as HTD is.
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Kakatary

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2009, 06:01:28 AM »
Are there any FEers out there that'll answer the questions? If not I really don't think that the creator of this thread asked for a debate on anything. If that had been the case I'm sure they'd have put it in the Debate subforum. Now FEers... what about those questions?
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We create another secret world, a place only of beauty.
The very word "geisha" means artist and to be a geisha
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Jack

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2009, 10:45:52 PM »
Okay, the discussions about Newtonian gravity became a separate thread.

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ramguy2014

Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2009, 04:17:41 PM »
Given an infinite earth, gravitation would not decrease with elevation.  Since you are so knowledgable, I assume you already knew this.  You must have simply forgotten.


Not actually true. Even if the earth were an infinte plane (with finite thickness beneath) gravity would still vary with altitude.

But anyway, since gravity does vary with altitude, this indicates your theory is wrong.

Rethink?
I don't believe it does and it hasn't been shown that it does.

here is the math that says it doesn't vary with altitude:


BUT since you say it wouldn't, why would a lack of change indicate my theory wrong?
Given an infinite earth, gravitation would not decrease with elevation.  Since you are so knowledgable, I assume you already knew this.  You must have simply forgotten.


Not actually true. Even if the earth were an infinte plane (with finite thickness beneath) gravity would still vary with altitude.

But anyway, since gravity does vary with altitude, this indicates your theory is wrong.

Rethink?


Can I have this diagram in English, not... Martian? Or Runic? I can't really tell the difference...

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Username

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2009, 06:06:38 PM »
What exactly are you confused by?  I can provide an alternate derivation if you'd like.

If you don't understand any of it, please come back when you have learned the appropriate prerequisite math.

Here it is in print from .net

« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 06:41:43 PM by John Davis »
f you can't argue both sides, you understand neither

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2009, 04:28:44 AM »
What exactly are you confused by?  I can provide an alternate derivation if you'd like.

If you don't understand any of it, please come back when you have learned the appropriate prerequisite math.


Listen up, Davis. If you didn't realise people would be confused by this, then you're not clever enough to to that sort of maths. Since you clearly can do that sort of maths, I can draw the conclusion that you are deliberately obfuscating.
This is why people don't understand it - you have not identified any of the variables. In there we have A, G, m, some thing that looks like an upside down question mark with a male symbol on top of it, d, s, and D. Nowhere in your scrawlings is there any explanation of what these variables represent so of course we can't follow it. I'm guessing that G might be force of gravity and A might be altitude, but as for the rest, who knows? D especially is confusing as it only shows up in the last equation - where did it come from?
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Username

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2009, 07:33:57 AM »
Listen up, Davis. If you didn't realise people would be confused by this, then you're not clever enough to to that sort of maths. Since you clearly can do that sort of maths, I can draw the conclusion that you are deliberately obfuscating.
This is why people don't understand it - you have not identified any of the variables. In there we have A, G, m, some thing that looks like an upside down question mark with a male symbol on top of it, d, s, and D. Nowhere in your scrawlings is there any explanation of what these variables represent so of course we can't follow it. I'm guessing that G might be force of gravity and A might be altitude, but as for the rest, who knows? D especially is confusing as it only shows up in the last equation - where did it come from?

They are all standard variables or inferable from context.  Though you are right, one should clarify.  No one has had an issue with it though in the past year or two, which to me says they are easily determined or assumed as I originally thought.

Here they are:
S - the closed surface
A - area
n - a normal unit-vector
π - the constant pi
G - the constant G
g - gravitational pull
g - gravitational pull
m - mass

I figured D would be apparent from the context.
D = m/A
m= DA
I figured that would be fairly obvious.

If one understands what I'm doing, it should be obvious what the variables are.

I'll make sure the graphic in the future relays this information.

Here is the work in latex:
http://theflatearthsociety.net/talk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1366&p=35539#p35539
« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 07:53:13 AM by John Davis »
f you can't argue both sides, you understand neither

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markjo

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2009, 07:43:27 AM »
A - area
If your model of the FE is an infinite plane, then A=infinity, correct?  Doesn't that pretty much make the whole thing meaningless?
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Username

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2009, 07:53:46 AM »
A - area
If your model of the FE is an infinite plane, then A=infinity, correct?  Doesn't that pretty much make the whole thing meaningless?
A cancels out.

D = m/A
m = DA

-g 2 A = -4 pi G m
-g 2 A = -4 pi G (DA)
-g 2 = -4 pi G D
« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 07:56:17 AM by John Davis »
f you can't argue both sides, you understand neither

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Username

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2009, 08:01:22 AM »
Obviously, we don't have to take the density over an infinite area, if thats what you are asking.  We assume its roughly uniform.
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markjo

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Re: Weee...questions.
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2009, 08:44:14 AM »
Obviously, we don't have to take the density over an infinite area, if thats what you are asking.  We assume its roughly uniform.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're saying that density is mass/area (which it isn't, it's mass/volume), then any number divided by infinity is (essentially) zero.  That is unless you consider the infinite plane to have infinite mass, then infinity divided by infinity is an indeterminate value.
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