Abortion

Can anybody give me a nonreligious reason why it shouldn't be allowed at the discretion of the 'parent(s)'?

But I don't see how we can justify the revocation of every parents' rights to choose to have children or not, in exchange for an unmeasurable influences ...like innovation via population growth (which we are headed for sooner or later regardless). There are people who cannot function as parents for many different reasons. By taking away the choice from the people who know their situations and limits, we condemn all of those parents to unsuccessfully or unhealthily raise their children.

Plus we condemn the children to be poorly raised by those parents

But I don't see how we can justify the revocation of every parents' rights to choose to have children or not, in exchange for an unmeasurable influences ...like innovation via population growth (which we are headed for sooner or later regardless). There are people who cannot function as parents for many different reasons. By taking away the choice from the people who know their situations and limits, we condemn all of those parents to unsuccessfully or unhealthily raise their children.

We could just as easily say that there could be benefits to invading another country. The action isn't nessesarily justified even if those benefits became measurable, let alone if they aren't.

Yeah, I should say at this point that I don't actually believe that we need to keep spewing out kids. Abortion is a right and I was really just messing around. Sorry.

Yeah, I should say at this point that I don't actually believe that we need to keep spewing out kids. Abortion is a right and I was really just messing around. Sorry.

But I don't see how we can justify the revocation of every parents' rights to choose to have children or not, in exchange for an unmeasurable influences ...like innovation via population growth (which we are headed for sooner or later regardless). There are people who cannot function as parents for many different reasons. By taking away the choice from the people who know their situations and limits, we condemn all of those parents to unsuccessfully or unhealthily raise their children.

We could just as easily say that there could be benefits to invading another country. The action isn't nessesarily justified even if those benefits became measurable, let alone if they aren't.

I did a project on the long term effects of abortion once. Something like half of all women develop PTS or something like that as a result of their abortion. I can't really remember. I just remember reading the study results and seeing that 5% of the women polled believed, 10 years later, that God hated them for what they'd done, or the 3% polled that had regular, recurring dreams of the baby.... 10 years later.

It was something to do with the fact that during pregnancy you have all those lovely hormones chemically programming your instincts to "Protect Baby", so killing the baby through an abortion, especially 2,3 trimester tends to be actually traumatic....



And that said, why would anyone be stupid enough to have sex without expecting a child?  
Accept the consequences of your actions, you can have an abortion if you want, but I'm going to think your pretty much an irresponsible fool for getting pregnant in the first place. Its called birth control. Condoms and the Pill. And even then, its rather stupid to engage in reproduction without expecting that it might actually work....

What if you're Catholic and aren't allowed to use birth control?

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on July 24, 2009, 10:36:10 AM

What if you're Catholic and aren't allowed to use birth control?

Then don't have sex unless your willing to have a baby 

Quote from: Pete on July 24, 2009, 10:39:02 AM

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on July 24, 2009, 10:36:10 AM

What if you're Catholic and aren't allowed to use birth control?

Then don't have sex unless your willing to have a baby 

So take away one of the most important functions of sex, which is to express your love and demean it to just the base act of making babies? I don't think God would approve of people treating his gift like that.


@Wilmore: probably, thats why they have some big families. Which isn't a good thing really.

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on July 24, 2009, 10:42:20 AM

Quote from: Pete on July 24, 2009, 10:39:02 AM

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on July 24, 2009, 10:36:10 AM

What if you're Catholic and aren't allowed to use birth control?

Then don't have sex unless your willing to have a baby 

So take away one of the most important functions of sex, which is to express your love and demean it to just the base act of making babies? I don't think God would approve of people treating his gift like that.


@Wilmore: probably, thats why they have some big families. Which isn't a good thing really.

No, that isn't what I said at all. If you aren't going to use birth control, you shouldn't be surprised if you get pregnant as a result.

Haven't we blocked natural selection in humans (somewhat)?  People with genetic diseases breed, sickly babies are kept alive at all costs.. there is not much thinning the herd anymore.  The infectious diseases that come along periodically seem to be our only predator.

We have the right to be killed, and in order to have this right we have to bestow this right on others, the fact that there cannot be a direct reciprocation of this right, in terms of abortion as we are already born, means that it is much harder for people to see it as necessary.

Quote from: Raist on July 24, 2009, 10:27:16 AM

We have the right not to be killed, and in order to have this right we have to bestow this right on others, the fact that there cannot be a direct reciprocation of this right, in terms of abortion as we are already born, means that it is much harder for people to see it as necessary.