About that "150 foot wall of ice"...

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Tom Bishop

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2009, 06:23:09 AM »
What?

The wager wasn't on a horse race or a cricket match ...

The two guys repeated the same experiment, got different results and the Round Earther was proved right in court (The Bedford Level is not flat) because the Flat Earther was a libelous git.

What the hell are you talking about? The court case was never about the experiment at all. The subject of the earth's shape had nothing to do with the case. The court case was years after the wager and was because of something else entirely.

During the wager itself both men walked away from the experiment claiming that their own side had won. Neither agreed to part with their money.

Please read Christine Garwood's "Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea". You can get it from Amazon. She goes into all of this in quite thorough detail. Educate yourself on the history before rambling off nonsense.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 09:56:15 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2009, 06:24:27 AM »
What?

That would have been a court case about affray or assualt ...

Not libel!

Read the history book. Libel was also involved. Please educate yourself on the matter.

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cdenley

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2009, 06:30:51 AM »
The simple experiment was done at the Bedford Level. Hampden expressed himself satisfied, and the wager was paid. He then called Wallace a liar and a swindler in his publications, which is why he was sued for libel. Just because there was a wager on the outcome of the experiment doesn't mean it can't show Rowbotham's experiment to be flawed.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=2&res=9C00EFDF113EEE34BC4852DFBE66838A669FDE&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

We seem to be off-topic now.

Tom, if earth is flat and the cruise ship travels around a land mass which isn't the ice wall, would a compass show the land mass to be south of the ship at all times?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 06:33:37 AM by cdenley »

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Skeptek

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2009, 06:36:27 AM »
AW crap!  Tom, the lying sack of shit is up against it now!
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Tom Bishop

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2009, 06:36:36 AM »
The simple experiment was done at the Bedford Level. Hampden expressed himself satisfied, and the wager was paid. He then called Wallace a liar and a swindler, which is why he was sued for libel. Just because there was a wager on the outcome of the experiment doesn't mean it can't show Rowbotham's experiment to be flawed.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=2&res=9C00EFDF113EEE34BC4852DFBE66838A669FDE&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The court case was about libel and threats. It was not about the Bedford Canal Experiment, or who won. The judge specifically steers the court away from debating such matters. Read Chritine Garwood's "Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea".

Hampden never "expressed himself satisfied". During the experiment and upon looking into the telescope Hampden and his referee even jumped for joy into the air and declared themselves the winner. It's all described and and categorized meticulously in Garwood's book. I encourage anyone with an interest in the subjectmatter to read it.

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3 Tesla

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2009, 06:39:09 AM »
We seem to be off-topic now.

Sorry - we flew off on a tangent from one of my posts which raised the opinion that Flat Earthers are averse to doing any experiemnts, Antarctica-related or otherwise, in the here-and-now:

Oh crap! I modified rather than quoted this:

Just remembered what my post said before I stupidly obliterrated it.

Nor have we any explanation for the inertial guided trip around Antarctica/Ice Wall experiment. 

Flat earthers don't seem to be interested in experiments ...

Read "Earth Not A Globe" seems to be sufficient ...

Rowbotham's Bedford Level Experiment was proved bogus in a British court of law ...

Refernece on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_Experiment

That's why I, and others, don't trust his experiments.
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Skeptek

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2009, 06:58:25 AM »
The simple experiment was done at the Bedford Level. Hampden expressed himself satisfied, and the wager was paid. He then called Wallace a liar and a swindler, which is why he was sued for libel. Just because there was a wager on the outcome of the experiment doesn't mean it can't show Rowbotham's experiment to be flawed.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=2&res=9C00EFDF113EEE34BC4852DFBE66838A669FDE&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The court case was about libel and threats. It was not about the Bedford Canal Experiment, or who won. The judge specifically steers the court away from debating such matters. Read Chritine Garwood's "Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea".

Hampden never "expressed himself satisfied". During the experiment and upon looking into the telescope Hampden and his referee even jumped for joy into the air and declared themselves the winner. It's all described and and categorized meticulously in Garwood's book. I encourage anyone with an interest in the subjectmatter to read it.

He's wrong, but he will never admit it.  The point it to drag every detail out as far as it can be.  To force the laborious spelling out of everything.  Then, he'll start back at the beginning.

Bedford Level is crap and you know it, Tom.  The court threw the idiot Hampden in jail for accusing a real scientist of fraud.  It's a fitting sentence for you as well.
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cdenley

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2009, 07:02:03 AM »
I'm going to start a new thread about the bedford level wager, but first, I will try to get this back on topic. How does the earth's magnetic field work on a flat earth? Are there any diagrams? I just learned that the earth's magnetic poles are actually a little different from the geometric poles, so Antarctica might not always be to the south while circling around its coast in RET.

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Skeptek

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2009, 07:10:42 AM »
I'm going to start a new thread about the bedford level wager, but first, I will try to get this back on topic. How does the earth's magnetic field work on a flat earth? Are there any diagrams? I just learned that the earth's magnetic poles are actually a little different from the geometric poles, so Antarctica might not always be to the south while circling around its coast in RET.
You are correct.  Our mag field is created by the spinning iron core in the center of our globe.  Recent studies have shown that not only does it fluctuate wildly, but actually reverses.  I understand that some researchers believe that it is headed for another reversal "soon" whatever that means.

Of course, none of this matters to this debate because FE'er will have a wonderfully whimsical explanation for the magnetic field or they will simply state that it does not exist and that compasses are all made by the conspiracy, invoking the TGC ("Talisman of the Grand Conspiracy").  Once they've used the TGC you "Can't touch this..." and you must admit defeat.

The funny thing is that the Bedford Level experiment (even though it is pretty lame) is used a lot here because it is one of about 3 things that FE'ers have on the side of "reasons to think the Earth is flat."  If you notice, you will see that everything here is about DISPROVING RE, and not PROVING FE.  There is nothing to prove FE, so they concentrate on disproving RE and everything else.  Casting doubt is much easier than proving confidence.
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3 Tesla

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2009, 07:21:48 AM »
You are correct.  Our mag field is created by the spinning iron core in the center of our globe.  Recent studies have shown that not only does it fluctuate wildly, but actually reverses.  I understand that some researchers believe that it is headed for another reversal "soon" whatever that means.

The reversal will not be instantaneous (according to mathematical modelling) and will involve many years of nearly no magnetic field ...

Which will leave us at the mercy of the full power of The Sun's radiation output (which is shielded by the magnetosphere at present).

A sobering thought ...
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Skeptek

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2009, 08:03:02 AM »
You are correct.  Our mag field is created by the spinning iron core in the center of our globe.  Recent studies have shown that not only does it fluctuate wildly, but actually reverses.  I understand that some researchers believe that it is headed for another reversal "soon" whatever that means.

The reversal will not be instantaneous (according to mathematical modelling) and will involve many years of nearly no magnetic field ...

Which will leave us at the mercy of the full power of The Sun's radiation output (which is shielded by the magnetosphere at present).

A sobering thought ...
Indeed!  The latest I heard was several months, but I'm sure they have no real idea.  What if it never started back up?  We'd be toast!

There is also lots of geological data in the strata that show the field has reversed hundreds or thousands of times over history.  One can actually map the changes in certain geological formations.  The biggest being the Mid-Atlantic ridge where the seafloor is spreading due to new material rising to form the two adjoining tectonic plates.  The pattern in the sea floor is unmistakable and an accurate record of our globe's field polarity changes.

I'm Tom and the other FE posers have some fantastic explanation for all this or just denial or the TGC.
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3 Tesla

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2009, 10:11:23 AM »
Sir, I fear I might make myself ill from the sincerest urgency with which I beg you to read Christine Garwood's card backed booklet. It is a read that no informed gentleman can go about his affairs without first having read.

This one?

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12504.0
"E pur si muove" ("And yet it moves"); Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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Skeptek

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2009, 11:36:13 AM »
On The Science Channel right now (EST US), they're talking about the "Voyager" airplane that flew all the way around the globe without refueling.

No need to go South below the 65 degree line like Rowbotham insisted was necessary.

You take off...

Fly West...

Have a sandwich...

Land where you started...

Simple.
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turtles

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2009, 05:02:33 PM »
Anyway...about this 150 foot wall of ice.

Which actually has to be many miles high to keep the air in, and so begs the question, why can't we see it from some considerable distance across the entire FE?
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

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dyno

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2009, 05:22:12 PM »
It's not possible for an icewall to get that high. Ice isn't strong enough to support itself 200km high. Interesting read here
http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/2/165-169.pdf A paper on limiting conditions for mountain height.

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Ski

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2009, 06:00:32 PM »
Quote from: http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/2/165-169.pdf
In making these comparisons we make no pretensions to serious geophysics

For the record, I'm not sure you'll find many willing to express a firm belief in anything other than the possibility of an extremely large mountain range covered in ice/snow. Many FE adherents don't believe such a "greater" ice wall exists.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 06:03:08 PM by Ski »
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Skeptek

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #76 on: June 18, 2009, 08:03:33 AM »
Quote from: http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/2/165-169.pdf
In making these comparisons we make no pretensions to serious geophysics

You forgot the rest:

Quote
In making these comparisons we make no pretensions to serious geophysics; we merely wish to show that the simple considerations presented here lead to sensible orders of magnitude.

Ie, they calculate a figure which is accurate only to orders of magnitude, and then show that it is generally held to be true on earth (that is, all mountains are smaller than the predicted maximum.)
See how it forced someone to point out that the reference was incomplete?  Nice "Mini-Battle" Ski.  Just another diversion tactic.  This one fits into #8, "Pillow Fight" as can be found in "Tools of The Debate Imposter".  I encourage everyone to help keep that topic active by commenting on it there.
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equinox

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2009, 08:26:32 AM »
Wouldn't the real test for whether you've sailed around Antarctica or the great ice wall be this?

Head south (away from north!) till you can go no further.  Just before you slam into the ice, turn right and follow the coast till you get back where you started. (Simply leave Tom behind with some cereal, milk, and some kind of toy so you'll know when you got back to your starting point)

Did your overall journey take you in a clockwise or counter-clockwise circle?

Yes, it's not just an illusion or a conspiracy, we are on topic...

Nor have we any explanation for the inertial guided trip around Antarctica/Ice Wall experiment.  It posits that if you go South, turn right at the wall and go all the way 'round to your starting point, and your gyros tell you that you when clockwise(right), then you went around the inside of an ice wall.  It's a way of testing FET.  If your gyros say that you went counter-clockwise, then you went around the outside of an island.  In addition, the distance of the journey should be 78k miles for FER and only around 11k for REF.

Well, how about it, FEers?  That's a pretty big difference in distance, and also in the direction of the circle travelled.  This is a trip taken many times a year by thousands of people.  Call any travel agent in the world, and you can book such a cruise.  I would think a ship's captain would be able to discern the logistics of such a voyage, not to mention a seven-fold discrepancy in distance travelled.

What say you here?

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turtles

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2009, 03:36:58 PM »
It's not possible for an icewall to get that high. Ice isn't strong enough to support itself 200km high. Interesting read here
http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/2/165-169.pdf A paper on limiting conditions for mountain height.

I always assumed they meant it was a rock wall really, covered in ice. I'm sure those that believe in it have a theory for how it can be that tall, its outside the Earths UA shield or something so the UA pushes up on it and supports it.  Doesnt explain why we cant see it from thousands of miles away.

Those that dont believe in a really high wall have yet to explain how we still have air to breath.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

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Empathy

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2009, 03:39:34 PM »
[A] limitless flat earth with Antartica expanding in all directions means that we won't need an ice wall.
My reason is Infallible, therefore unable to be touched using logic.

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turtles

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #80 on: June 19, 2009, 03:51:51 PM »
[A] limitless flat earth with Antartica expanding in all directions means that we won't need an ice wall.

Whats keeping the air here then? Lets assume that it is a limitless flat earth with air spread evenly across it. The air thats a couple of thousand miles outside antartica will get very cold, so cold that it turns to ice and falls to the ground. The warmer air further in will then rush outwards to fill the gap left by the frozen air. As it moves further out it will get colder, freeze and fall to the ground. More air will then move outwards, cool and freeze.

Repeat until there is no more air left in gas form anywhere on the flat earth.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

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Empathy

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #81 on: June 19, 2009, 03:58:17 PM »
Polar wind.
My reason is Infallible, therefore unable to be touched using logic.

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equinox

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #82 on: June 20, 2009, 07:40:41 AM »
Wouldn't the real test for whether you've sailed around Antarctica or the great ice wall be this?

Head south (away from north!) till you can go no further.  Just before you slam into the ice, turn right and follow the coast till you get back where you started. (Simply leave Tom behind with some cereal, milk, and some kind of toy so you'll know when you got back to your starting point)

Did your overall journey take you in a clockwise or counter-clockwise circle?

Yes, it's not just an illusion or a conspiracy, we are on topic...

Nor have we any explanation for the inertial guided trip around Antarctica/Ice Wall experiment.  It posits that if you go South, turn right at the wall and go all the way 'round to your starting point, and your gyros tell you that you when clockwise(right), then you went around the inside of an ice wall.  It's a way of testing FET.  If your gyros say that you went counter-clockwise, then you went around the outside of an island.  In addition, the distance of the journey should be 78k miles for FER and only around 11k for REF.

Well, how about it, FEers?  That's a pretty big difference in distance, and also in the direction of the circle travelled.  This is a trip taken many times a year by thousands of people.  Call any travel agent in the world, and you can book such a cruise.  I would think a ship's captain would be able to discern the logistics of such a voyage, not to mention a seven-fold discrepancy in distance travelled.

What say you here?

Anybody?  Any thoughts at all?

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Empathy

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #83 on: June 20, 2009, 12:42:35 PM »
Apparently you have innacurate instruments.
My reason is Infallible, therefore unable to be touched using logic.

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llaWecI

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #84 on: June 21, 2009, 02:15:37 PM »
As of 31 May 2009 the population of the earth is 6,792,467,727. We live on a planet with a dry surface area of 53,000,000 sq mi. and our ocean(s) have an area of 434,000,000 sq. miles with 78,225 miles of southern coastline.

Our closest approach to the Ice wall lies off the coast of South America at a distance of only 562 miles. This would, therefore, be the least appropriate location for mounting a survey of the Ice Wall as troop placement would be its heaviest there. The location (RE Lat & Long) 78 6.400S 162 17.432W would provide a close approach in a very remote location with close (less than 800 mi.) access to the RE purported geographic southern "pole." A means of scaling the wall would be necessary, provisions for exploration would need to be made and the possibility of exploratory "suits" for surviving in direct exposure to the dark energy environ would need to be proposed and built. We can do this. We are explorers by nature and have the ability to accomplish any goal. Team members must be armed, fit and dedicated FE'er's with the expertise to document and return data from the journey.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 12:21:20 AM by llaWecI »
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Slashdot

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #85 on: June 21, 2009, 03:31:08 PM »

This is me climbing the ice wall last year. When this picture was taken, we was about 40feet from the top, but after 12 warning shots from the guards, we decided to turn around with no proof. So I'm sorry, this is the best I could possibly do, and still be alive.
This is what happens when trolls troll trolls trolling trolls.
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MOAR LIEK THE FAG ERTH SOCITY AMIRITE?

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Nothing

Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #86 on: June 21, 2009, 08:30:25 PM »

This is me climbing the ice wall last year. When this picture was taken, we was about 40feet from the top, but after 12 warning shots from the guards, we decided to turn around with no proof. So I'm sorry, this is the best I could possibly do, and still be alive.



Really now?

Hmm, well I took the liberty of looking at the image URL of that picture you posted and it goes:
ttp://www.alpineascents.com/cybercasts/ecuador/2008/gregg-prussiking-up-ice-wall.jpg

Equador, huh, I never knew the ice wall was located in equador.

P.S:

http://www.alpineascents.com/ecuador-cybercast.asp
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8083/asdfkgw.png

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Slashdot

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #87 on: June 22, 2009, 06:45:06 AM »

This is me climbing the ice wall last year. When this picture was taken, we was about 40feet from the top, but after 12 warning shots from the guards, we decided to turn around with no proof. So I'm sorry, this is the best I could possibly do, and still be alive.



Really now?

Hmm, well I took the liberty of looking at the image URL of that picture you posted and it goes:
ttp://www.alpineascents.com/cybercasts/ecuador/2008/gregg-prussiking-up-ice-wall.jpg

Equador, huh, I never knew the ice wall was located in equador.

P.S:

http://www.alpineascents.com/ecuador-cybercast.asp
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8083/asdfkgw.png

..and as you obviously found out, my post was just one of many thousand other joke pictures showing the wall.
This is what happens when trolls troll trolls trolling trolls.
Quote from: Waste of Mind
MOAR LIEK THE FAG ERTH SOCITY AMIRITE?

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equinox

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #88 on: June 22, 2009, 07:57:29 AM »
Apparently you have innacurate instruments.

What numbers do you find innacurate, and what do you believe the numbers should be?

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Abysmal

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Re: About that "150 foot wall of ice"...
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2009, 06:07:05 PM »

This is me climbing the ice wall last year. When this picture was taken, we was about 40feet from the top, but after 12 warning shots from the guards, we decided to turn around with no proof. So I'm sorry, this is the best I could possibly do, and still be alive.
Really now?

Hmm, well I took the liberty of looking at the image URL of that picture you posted and it goes:
ttp://www.alpineascents.com/cybercasts/ecuador/2008/gregg-prussiking-up-ice-wall.jpg

Equador, huh, I never knew the ice wall was located in equador.

P.S:

http://www.alpineascents.com/ecuador-cybercast.asp
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8083/asdfkgw.png

..and as you obviously found out, my post was just one of many thousand other joke pictures showing the wall.
it still is a nice picture
Former Satanic Conspirator-now i've seen the bendy light.