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Something doesnt add up

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fenterb

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Something doesnt add up
« on: February 05, 2009, 05:33:07 AM »
Hi

I've been flying around the world for about 20 years now for various business trips.  I've flown from Europe to Australia along one side of the planet (stopping along the way) and I've flown back the other side of the planet (stopping along the way)

For example it takes roughtly 24 hours to fly from England to Australia, but I've flown from Australia to South America in half this time.

By your flat earth theory and maps, this journey should in fact take twice as long, not half as long.  Please explain how this is possible.

In fact you dont need to take my word for it, you can easily map out the earth as a globe using airline flight times.  If there is some conspiracy about the earth being a sphere, ALL the world airline compaines are in on it, and there are a lot of airoplanes flying round in circles to perpetuate the lie.

Any thoughts?
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RoundSquares

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 05:49:35 AM »
Wow, I literally JUST made a topic about this.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=26662.0

Nice to have someone who flies regularly too here to back me up. (and vice versa)
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 05:50:46 AM »
The FE maps are hypothetical only.
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RoundSquares

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009, 06:29:38 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 05:50:46 AM
The FE maps are hypothetical only.

That doesn't matter, it's impossible to maintain a flat Earth map, when the max flight time is 24 hours. S America to Australia is shorter than S America to UK. But on your map, rougly, it definitely isn't.

If you made an accurate map, it'd be impossible to balance all the flight times so they were all correct, one would always be out, meaning your entire map is flawed. Realistic flight times that exist empirically in our world, without having to go into space, or to take "fakable" photographs, you can just hop on a plane and see for yourself, as millions of people do each day.

The equilibrium does not work on a flat earth. Get over it, the Earth is round, hypothetical map or not.
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Edtharan

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009, 07:13:56 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 05:50:46 AM
The FE maps are hypothetical only.
Hypothetical or not, the distance involved and the times involved completely disprove any possible Flat Earth Map.
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Everyday household experimentation.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 07:43:59 AM »
Quote
That doesn't matter, it's impossible to maintain a flat Earth map, when the max flight time is 24 hours. S America to Australia is shorter than S America to UK. But on your map, rougly, it definitely isn't.

Quote
The FE maps are hypothetical only.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 07:44:49 AM »
Quote from: Edtharan on February 05, 2009, 07:13:56 AM
Hypothetical or not, the distance involved and the times involved completely disprove any possible Flat Earth Map.

Do you have the necessary flight logs and data to show that?
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Edtharan

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 07:54:30 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 07:44:49 AM
Quote from: Edtharan on February 05, 2009, 07:13:56 AM
Hypothetical or not, the distance involved and the times involved completely disprove any possible Flat Earth Map.

Do you have the necessary flight logs and data to show that?
There are a few on here that might, but I don't as I am not a pilot.

If fenterb is good enough he/she might just post some if you ask nicely and agree that if they do then you will agree that FET is wrong. But if you are just going to reject it because it disagrees with you, then it would be a waste of time to post anything.

Would you agree to that Tom, if someone actually was to post flight logs would you then reject FET and accept RET? Or would you twist more and more until you included those logs as part of a conspiracy?

If all you are going to do is the latter, then it is pointless (and not, this is not a statement that such data does not exist, it is just a query to see if it is worth the trouble to do so as the time it would take would be wasted on a Troll that is just trying to make other work for their perverted entertainment).
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 07:59:46 AM »
Well when you manage to gather the flight logs necessary to disprove every possible FE map configuration please send me a PM so we can continue our discussion.
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Edtharan

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2009, 08:07:09 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 07:59:46 AM
Well when you manage to gather the flight logs necessary to disprove every possible FE map configuration please send me a PM so we can continue our discussion.
Tom you didn't answer my question:

Is it worth me actually doing the work to get this data?

If it is worth my time and effort, then I will look into it.
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fenterb

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2009, 08:57:12 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 07:59:46 AM
Well when you manage to gather the flight logs necessary to disprove every possible FE map configuration please send me a PM so we can continue our discussion.

This doesnt need 'proving' by flight logs.  Any airline company on the internet will give you its flight times between any airports.  My point is that it is completely unfeasable for flat earth given the way that travel between the world continents works.

I've experienced spherical earth first hand and so have millions of people on this planet. You dont need to go into space to experience round earth, you just have to have to be well travelled.

I'm not lying, im not part of the conspiracy, I'm not a NASA executive trying to cover up the truth, I'm not an atheist trying to disprove God (I'm a born again Christian if you must know).  I'm just a person who can see past the end of his nose who is telling you the way the world is.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2009, 09:03:21 AM »
Quote
Is it worth me actually doing the work to get this data?

Yes it is. When you guys actually have some data to present please let us know so we can look at it.
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cbarnett97

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2009, 09:13:40 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 09:03:21 AM
Quote
Is it worth me actually doing the work to get this data?

Yes it is. When you guys actually have some data to present please let us know so we can look at it.
We have shown you the data before from quantas airlines and you rejected it so why should we do it again
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Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.
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fenterb

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2009, 09:25:23 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 09:03:21 AM
Quote
Is it worth me actually doing the work to get this data?

Yes it is. When you guys actually have some data to present please let us know so we can look at it.

Here's a quick example of some of this data plucked off the internet.  

England to Australia: 24 hours
Australia to South America: 17 hours

http://www.blurtit.com/q496939.html
http://www.convertunits.com/time/from/brisbane,+australia/to/south+america

Now before you question the integrity of this data I should point out that you could go to any airline or any website and the figures will be similar.  These are just examples but they are consistent with the truth.  

This example alone concludes that Australia cannot be the other side of a disk to South America.  
If you were to place South America on another place on a disc compared to Australia I could prove it wrong with another flight time.  We could keep doing this until you had to concede the flat earth theory is false.

The truth is the flight times from country to country ONLY correlate when you have a ROUND earth.  

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RoundSquares

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2009, 09:46:40 AM »
We only need about 4 flight times to disprove you. If they arrange their map to move S. America closer to Australia, we can just log flight times from S. America to somewhere in Europe.

Tom Bishop: It's impossible for there to be an accurate map of a flat world, so why bother denying the fact that we don't have evidence from every point on the Earth to every other point, we don't need that much data. You already know you're wrong, you're the biggest troll on the internet.

The Earth is round guys, it's conclusive. If Tom doesn't agree here, there's no way you can convince him ever, and it's obvious that either: He's doing this for a laugh, or he's mental.
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NTheGreat

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 09:48:13 AM »
Quote
Well when you manage to gather the flight logs necessary to disprove every possible FE map configuration please send me a PM so we can continue our discussion.

Interestingly enough, I've yet to see a single FE map configuration, beyond the hypothetical 'RE map distorted into a disc'. How do you show that 0 maps are incorrect?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 10:18:00 AM »
Quote from: NTheGreat on February 05, 2009, 09:48:13 AM
Quote
Well when you manage to gather the flight logs necessary to disprove every possible FE map configuration please send me a PM so we can continue our discussion.

Interestingly enough, I've yet to see a single FE map configuration, beyond the hypothetical 'RE map distorted into a disc'. How do you show that 0 maps are incorrect?

Exactly.  It's all academic until somebody produces a valid FE map.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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markjo

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 11:13:59 AM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on February 05, 2009, 10:18:00 AM
Quote from: NTheGreat on February 05, 2009, 09:48:13 AM
Quote
Well when you manage to gather the flight logs necessary to disprove every possible FE map configuration please send me a PM so we can continue our discussion.

Interestingly enough, I've yet to see a single FE map configuration, beyond the hypothetical 'RE map distorted into a disc'. How do you show that 0 maps are incorrect?

Exactly.  It's all academic until somebody produces a valid FE map.

Sadly, nobody seems to be in any sort of hurry to produce said valid FE map.  It's almost as if FE'ers don't believe that an accurate map of the earth could be of any value.
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Moon squirter

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 12:08:14 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 09:03:21 AM
Quote
Is it worth me actually doing the work to get this data?

Yes it is. When you guys actually have some data to present please let us know so we can look at it.

Please don't bother.  The FEers never collect data and present evidence; It's against their Zetecist principals, so why should you?  They only make claims and lazily attribute them to "human experience".

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Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 01, 2012, 01:00:09 PM
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.
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C-Ray

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 12:23:17 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 09:03:21 AM
Quote
Is it worth me actually doing the work to get this data?

Yes it is. When you guys actually have some data to present please let us know so we can look at it.

When you actually have some data that proves the earth flat, please let us know.
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The Earth is Round.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 01:47:14 PM »
Quote from: markjo on February 05, 2009, 11:13:59 AM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on February 05, 2009, 10:18:00 AM
Quote from: NTheGreat on February 05, 2009, 09:48:13 AM
Quote
Well when you manage to gather the flight logs necessary to disprove every possible FE map configuration please send me a PM so we can continue our discussion.

Interestingly enough, I've yet to see a single FE map configuration, beyond the hypothetical 'RE map distorted into a disc'. How do you show that 0 maps are incorrect?

Exactly.  It's all academic until somebody produces a valid FE map.

Sadly, nobody seems to be in any sort of hurry to produce said valid FE map.  It's almost as if FE'ers don't believe that an accurate map of the earth could be of any value.

You know why we don't have a valid map, Markjo.  For those who aren't being intentionally obtuse, we simply don't have the resources to survey the entire earth so we can legitimately produce said valid map.  Sorry.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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cbarnett97

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2009, 01:49:55 PM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on February 05, 2009, 01:47:14 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 05, 2009, 11:13:59 AM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on February 05, 2009, 10:18:00 AM
Quote from: NTheGreat on February 05, 2009, 09:48:13 AM
Quote
Well when you manage to gather the flight logs necessary to disprove every possible FE map configuration please send me a PM so we can continue our discussion.

Interestingly enough, I've yet to see a single FE map configuration, beyond the hypothetical 'RE map distorted into a disc'. How do you show that 0 maps are incorrect?

Exactly.  It's all academic until somebody produces a valid FE map.

Sadly, nobody seems to be in any sort of hurry to produce said valid FE map.  It's almost as if FE'ers don't believe that an accurate map of the earth could be of any value.

You know why we don't have a valid map, Markjo.  For those who aren't being intentionally obtuse, we simply don't have the resources to survey the entire earth so we can legitimately produce said valid map.  Sorry.
However someone can go the archives and look at the surveys that have already been done and make a map from that assume a FE
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Edtharan

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2009, 06:46:51 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 05, 2009, 09:03:21 AM
Quote
Is it worth me actually doing the work to get this data?

Yes it is. When you guys actually have some data to present please let us know so we can look at it.
Ok, here:
http://www.airrouting.com/content/TimeDistanceForm.aspx

Now Tom, if this were not accurate, then it could easily be disproved by anyone getting into a flight and timing the trip themselves. It is turns out that this predicts the time to be 5 hours, and it instead take 15 hours, then I think people would notice. Also you can avoid any effect of knock out gas by having the timing done by someone who is not on the plane, say a friend that watches you take off that calls another friend with the time that you took off, and then the second friend telling you the time when you arrive. This avoids any skulduggery by the airline companies to make the trip seem shorter than it is.

There are literally millions of people flying around the world every day. If the flight times posted by the Airline companies didn't match the actual times, then there would be an extremely obvious crack in the conspiracy. So we can therefore take the times posted by the Airline companies as being accurate, whether there is a conspiracy or not.

Using the flight times we can calculate the Geodesics for the Earth and therefore determine that the only shape the Earth can be is Spherical (well oblate spheroid, as the data that is given is not accurate enough to determine the exact distortions from a true sphere).

The Earth is not flat and must be spherical based on the flight times of international flights (which can easily be independently checked in a way that can avoid any sabotage by conspirators).
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RoundSquares

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2009, 06:49:50 AM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on February 05, 2009, 01:47:14 PM
You know why we don't have a valid map, Markjo.  For those who aren't being intentionally obtuse, we simply don't have the resources to survey the entire earth so we can legitimately produce said valid map.  Sorry.

+ You can't have an accurate map of a Flat Earth because looking at the post above, it completely stops there being any possibility of a flat Earth.
Why don't you just accept that the Earth is set on a globe, which all empirical and testable evidence shows. There is no conspiracy, and time does not warp 10 hours when you're in a plane etc etc. The Earth is not flat.

See here for an example of some calculations.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=26662.0
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RoundSquares

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2009, 07:17:06 AM »
Anyone got a real counter example yet? Or is the Earth Round?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2009, 07:25:08 AM »
Quote
Ok, here:
http://www.airrouting.com/content/TimeDistanceForm.aspx

I don't see anything proving an RE in that link.

Quote
Now Tom, if this were not accurate, then it could easily be disproved by anyone getting into a flight and timing the trip themselves.

When you have some actual data which demonstrates that the earth is a globe and no other shape let us know so so we can continue this thread.
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RoundSquares

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2009, 11:25:18 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 08, 2009, 07:25:08 AM
Quote
Ok, here:
http://www.airrouting.com/content/TimeDistanceForm.aspx

I don't see anything proving an RE in that link.

Quote
Now Tom, if this were not accurate, then it could easily be disproved by anyone getting into a flight and timing the trip themselves.

When you have some actual data which demonstrates that the earth is a globe and no other shape let us know so so we can continue this thread.

As i've already said Tom, and you have failed to listen or to even take into account any argument that you can't disprove:
We do not need accurate data, approximations that are accurate ENOUGH in the real world disprove the Earth's flatness. The times will only work on a spherical Earth. Therefore, we have already proved it, but you only select some posts to reply to, which is not only narrow minded, it's ridiculously annoying seeing as you cannot disprove our argument, and the Earth is not flat.
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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2009, 01:31:43 PM »
Waa.  Waa waa waa.

The above is of approximately the same value in this debate as your last post, Roundsquares.  If you really want to take on the Bishop, you need cold hard facts! If you rise to his bait you've lost before you even start posting.
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All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Robbyj

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2009, 01:43:27 PM »
Lurking is a virtue.
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Quote from: Raist on January 22, 2009, 09:27:08 PM
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?
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Hammod

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2009, 02:33:05 PM »
I am glad to see that even though I have been away for nearly 6 months, the flat earthers still are failing to produce any coherent arguments, or evidence to support the fact that the earth is flat.

In fact the best advocate for a round earth is Tom Bishop, since his theories are so far fetched that only a complete moron would believe him.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 02:35:17 PM by Hammod »
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