lots of energy needed for accelerating the earth

Quote from: cbarnett97 on January 21, 2009, 01:52:33 PM

I will help him out a bit
http://www.leydenscience.org/physics/gravitation/cavend.htm

indeed that's it. Not very complex or is it?
Actually this is not a difficult experiment (some of us did this in their first year in university) you just need some accurate equipment.

It is actually a simple idea, but a very complex experiment it is very hard to eliminate all the noise to get a very precise reading. Even though we are talking now about error ratios in the parts per billion range

With the law of gravitation this is easy to explain but in FET you can only have a force in vertical direction due to the acceleration of the earth here we have a horizontal force.

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 02:01:16 PM

Quote from: cbarnett97 on January 21, 2009, 01:52:33 PM

I will help him out a bit
http://www.leydenscience.org/physics/gravitation/cavend.htm

indeed that's it. Not very complex or is it?
Actually this is not a difficult experiment (some of us did this in their first year in university) you just need some accurate equipment.

It is actually a simple idea, but a very complex experiment it is very hard to eliminate all the noise to get a very precise reading. Even though we are talking now about error ratios in the parts per billion range

Even without a very precise reading you can see there is a force between the to masses

Quote from: cbarnett97 on January 21, 2009, 01:52:33 PM

I will help him out a bit
http://www.leydenscience.org/physics/gravitation/cavend.htm

indeed that's it. Not very complex or is it?
Actually this is not a difficult experiment (some of us did this in their first year in university) you just need some accurate equipment.

Oh, to be more precise, I wanted to know about your experience with it. considering you claim to have done it.

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 02:01:16 PM

Quote from: cbarnett97 on January 21, 2009, 01:52:33 PM

I will help him out a bit
http://www.leydenscience.org/physics/gravitation/cavend.htm

indeed that's it. Not very complex or is it?
Actually this is not a difficult experiment (some of us did this in their first year in university) you just need some accurate equipment.

Oh, to be more precise, I wanted to know about your experience with it. considering you claim to have done it.

maybe you should first learn to read:

...
I haven't done this experiment but some of my friends did this experiment.
...

Quote from: Raist on January 21, 2009, 02:35:32 PM

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 02:01:16 PM

Quote from: cbarnett97 on January 21, 2009, 01:52:33 PM

I will help him out a bit
http://www.leydenscience.org/physics/gravitation/cavend.htm

indeed that's it. Not very complex or is it?
Actually this is not a difficult experiment (some of us did this in their first year in university) you just need some accurate equipment.

Oh, to be more precise, I wanted to know about your experience with it. considering you claim to have done it.

maybe you should first learn to read:

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 08:52:14 AM

...
I haven't done this experiment but some of my friends did this experiment.
...

My error. I meant more detail on your "friends" doing it.

My whole point was, claiming you have done something or know someone that has done something is a very poor tactic for debate and also completely irrelevant.

And you call yourself "TheEngineer"?

Uh, obviously...

What's your point?

Even without a very precise reading you can see there is a force between the to masses

You've seen this force?  What color was it?  What did it look like?

Or are you making an assumption about what is happening?

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 05:19:46 AM

And you call yourself "TheEngineer"?

Uh, obviously...

What's your point?

The whole point of giving an explanation is finding an equation that matches your  observations and of course you'll need to insert a constant factor just like the earth is "constant accelerating at 9.81 m/s²".
And this equation matches for all the observations done so you can call this an explanation.

Only one thing I've seen an explanation from the FE'ers for this observation.

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 02:06:04 PM

Even without a very precise reading you can see there is a force between the to masses

You've seen this force?  What color was it?  What did it look like?

Or are you making an assumption about what is happening?

Of course you can't see a force but you can see that the 2 small spheres connected to the torsion fiber are moves a certain angle. There is a force needed to give an angle to the torsion fiber. This force is the force between the small and the big sphere. Because this is the only thing that has been changed during the experiment.

The whole point of giving an explanation is finding an equation that matches your  observations and of course you'll need to insert a constant factor

You need to insert that 'constant factor' because your equation does not work.  Therefore, you fudge the numbers to make it fit observations.  And an equation is not an explanation, it's an attempt to put into empirical terms what you observe.

Of course you can't see a force but you can see that the 2 small spheres connected to the torsion fiber are moves a certain angle. There is a force needed to give an angle to the torsion fiber. This force is the force between the small and the big sphere. Because this is the only thing that has been changed during the experiment.

What changed during the experiment?  I don't get it.  And why are you assuming there is a force? 

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 04:44:31 PM

Of course you can't see a force but you can see that the 2 small spheres connected to the torsion fiber are moves a certain angle. There is a force needed to give an angle to the torsion fiber. This force is the force between the small and the big sphere. Because this is the only thing that has been changed during the experiment.

What changed during the experiment?  I don't get it.  And why are you assuming there is a force? 

You, "TheEngineer" don't make me laugh.
As you can see on the images on http://www.leydenscience.org/physics/gravitation/cavend.htm
1) You have a torsion fiber with a mirror and 2 small lead spheres
2) You can place a laser and a screen so that the laser ray is orthogonal to the mirror and is reflecting to a point on the screen the screen.
3) You place the 2 big lead spheres, you'll now see that the laser ray is gong to another point on the screen.
Conclusion: The fiber is twisted, for twisting a fiber you'll need a force
     => in 3) you have an extra force comparing to 2).   (a)
What has been changed during the experiment (2-3) (this are the possible reasons of the force): only one thing changed: 2 big lead spheres.   (b)

(a) + (b)
     => The only thing that can cause the extra force is the addition of the 2 big lead spheres.
     => There must be a force between the big lead spheres and the small lead spheres.
With the law of gravitation you can predict the force. If you insert this force in the torsion equation you can predict the angle of twisting. Experiments give the same value as the equations (only some occasional errors, like you have in every experiment).

QED

STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

---

For the inpatient ones:
STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

---

For the inpatient ones:
STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

The density of the flat earth is the same as the density of the round earth.

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 05:18:46 PM

STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

---

For the inpatient ones:
STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

The density of the flat earth is the same as the density of the round earth.

This has noting to do with the a possible difference of the density of the earth in FET and RET but this is the proof of gravitation.

STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

---

For the inpatient ones:
STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

Cavendish balls were mildly magnetic.

You, "TheEngineer" don't make me laugh.
As you can see on the images on http://www.leydenscience.org/physics/gravitation/cavend.htm
1) You have a torsion fiber with a mirror and 2 small lead spheres
2) You can place a laser and a screen so that the laser ray is orthogonal to the mirror and is reflecting to a point on the screen the screen.
3) You place the 2 big lead spheres, you'll now see that the laser ray is gong to another point on the screen.
Conclusion: The fiber is twisted, for twisting a fiber you'll need a force
     => in 3) you have an extra force comparing to 2).   (a)
What has been changed during the experiment (2-3) (this are the possible reasons of the force): only one thing changed: 2 big lead spheres.   (b)

(a) + (b)
     => The only thing that can cause the extra force is the addition of the 2 big lead spheres.
     => There must be a force between the big lead spheres and the small lead spheres.
With the law of gravitation you can predict the force. If you insert this force in the torsion equation you can predict the angle of twisting. Experiments give the same value as the equations (only some occasional errors, like you have in every experiment).

QED

You still have not answered my question: Why do you assume there is a force?  In actuality, there is no force between the two lead spheres.  I am still waiting for you to explain the magic part of my sig.

Quote from: Mr. Davis on January 21, 2009, 05:21:03 PM

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 05:18:46 PM

STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

---

For the inpatient ones:
STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

The density of the flat earth is the same as the density of the round earth.

This has noting to do with the a possible difference of the density of the earth in FET and RET but this is the proof of gravitation.

Both flat earth models hold that there is gravitation.  There are flat earth models that hold there is gravitation by mass.

The infinite earth model, for example.

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 05:29:53 PM

Quote from: Mr. Davis on January 21, 2009, 05:21:03 PM

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 05:18:46 PM

STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

---

For the inpatient ones:
STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

The density of the flat earth is the same as the density of the round earth.

This has noting to do with the a possible difference of the density of the earth in FET and RET but this is the proof of gravitation.

Both flat earth models hold that there is gravitation.  There are flat earth models that hold there is gravitation by mass.

The infinite earth model, for example.

Ah FET is changed?
Gravity exists

He said nothing about gravity.

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 05:08:46 PM

You, "TheEngineer" don't make me laugh.
As you can see on the images on http://www.leydenscience.org/physics/gravitation/cavend.htm
1) You have a torsion fiber with a mirror and 2 small lead spheres
2) You can place a laser and a screen so that the laser ray is orthogonal to the mirror and is reflecting to a point on the screen the screen.
3) You place the 2 big lead spheres, you'll now see that the laser ray is gong to another point on the screen.
Conclusion: The fiber is twisted, for twisting a fiber you'll need a force
     => in 3) you have an extra force comparing to 2).   (a)
What has been changed during the experiment (2-3) (this are the possible reasons of the force): only one thing changed: 2 big lead spheres.   (b)

(a) + (b)
     => The only thing that can cause the extra force is the addition of the 2 big lead spheres.
     => There must be a force between the big lead spheres and the small lead spheres.
With the law of gravitation you can predict the force. If you insert this force in the torsion equation you can predict the angle of twisting. Experiments give the same value as the equations (only some occasional errors, like you have in every experiment).

QED

You still have not answered my question: Why do you assume there is a force?  In actuality, there is no force between the two lead spheres.  I am still waiting for you to explain the magic part of my sig.

Let's assume there is no force, what makes the fiber twist?
Explain that.

In that expirement it is hard to tell because there are too many variables to control, but if it is due solely to the mass of the spheres it is because of gravitation.

Quote from: GeertD on January 21, 2009, 05:18:46 PM

STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

---

For the inpatient ones:
STILL WAITING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THE CAVENDISH EXPERIMENT FROM THE SIDE OF THE FE-BELIEVERS

Cavendish balls were mildly magnetic.

I was expecting this:
Lead isn't magnetic so there can't be a force between lead and magnetic particles.
So suppose there is a contamination in the lead of magnetic particles. You should have a magnetic north and south pole So the force should be sometimes an attractive and sometimes a repulsive force but the force is allays an attractive force.

Static cling.

In that expirement it is hard to tell because there are too many variables to control, but if it is due solely to the mass of the spheres it is because of gravitation.

That's why you have some occasional errors. If there wasn't a force then these occasional errors should be around zero so sometimes the spheres there is an attractive force between the spheres and sometimes there is a repulsive force between them.
But There is always an attractive force between them => there is a force caused by the spheres.

If the attraction is due to gravitation, there is no force.

If the attraction is due to gravitation, there is no force.

But there should be because the fiber twists.
Try to explain why the fiber twist without a force.
It's impossible.

Static cling.

Same effect as magnetic forces you can have positive and negative poles => sometimes attraction, sometimes repulsion.

It's not impossible.  Gravitation is not a force, even in RE.