Abortion

I'm tired of all you pro-abortion dicks, so I've compiled a list of common arguments and a response to them.

Note: when I say "list", I mean it: I have plenty of responses prepared for you arrogant pricks
1) "a woman has the right to her own body."

first off, it's silly to think that the law cannot tell us what we can't do with our bodies. we can't put certain drugs in them or sell ourselves for sex. second, this statement totally ignores the fact that the unborn are completely separate individuals from the mother. how can someone have two heartbeats, two different blood types, two sets of DNA? and, if the unborn is a male, how can a woman have a male part of her body? yes, the unborn need their mother for nutrition and safety, but that does not make them any more a part of her body than some food she swallows is a part of her body. To refute this statement, i'll tell a story about a little boy who had surgery for spina bifida before he was even born. at the end of the surgery, the baby reached out of the uterus and grabbed the doctor's finger. my question is this... who grabbed the doctor's finger? (full story: http://joseromia.tripod.com/samuel.html )


2) "what if she was raped?"

1% of all abortions performed annually are due to rape/incest. although this is an extremely small number, this situation must be approached with great compassion, because the victim has already been through one violent act. why would we subject her to another, that of killing her own child? two wrongs do not make a right, and abortion will not alleviate the trauma of the rape. the victim needs love and care, and both she and her unborn child deserve better than abortion.

3) "you can't impose your morality on others."

using that logic, should we release all the rapists and murderers from prison to go free on the streets and allow them to do as they please, because we "cannot impose our morality on them?" of course not. if you saw someone beating a child bloody on a playground, would you not try to stop it? even if that's imposing your views on others?
we do not need to be given the right to speak up for the voiceless.


4) "you're all just a bunch of self-righteous jesus freaks."

not all pro-lifers are religious, but one doesn't have to be to have a sense of morality and know that killing a defenseless human being is wrong. simply because many pro-lifers are motivated by religious beliefs doesn't mean abortion a religious issue. (the civil rights movement was sometimes led by pastors and led in churches, but that doesn't mean civil rights is a religious issue). besides, if we start rejecting laws just because they are supported by religion, since that there is hardly anything illegal which is not also prohibited by Scripture, then we will have get rid of all of our laws.

5) "it has nothing to do with you. stay out of other people's privacy."

if everyone were to follow this idea, then we would not have any security in our nation at all. if everyone just "stayed out of people's privacy," children would be molested, women would be raped in their homes, and people would kill each other and no one could do anything to stop it. we would have no security, no police force, nothing. should we stay out of someone's privacy' when they film child pornography in their basement? should we stay out of a man's 'privacy' as he beats his wife in their bedroom? should we stay out of a woman's 'privacy' as she goes to have her child intentionally torn limb from limb?


6) "if it is illegal, then women will die in illegal abortions."

abortion advocates are flat-out lying when saying thousands of women died each year from illegal abortions and their own research proves it: in 1986, the AGI (allen guttmacher institute, the research arm of planned parenthood) gave proof that shows in the fifteen years before abortion was legal, the average number of women dying from illegal abortion in America was 136 per year and falling.
remember: pro-lifers don't perform abortions. if we made abortion illegal right now, and illegal abortionists came about in the next few days, each one of them would be pro-choice. think about it: any woman that ever died or was hurt during an abortion, legal or not, it was because of someone who was pro-choice.
basically, the abortion industry tells us, "if you make abortion illegal, women will end up dying because of it." but what in reality they're saying, "if you make it illegal for us to kill babies, then we'll start killing women."

7) "it's not a human because _______."

this is when people start making up their own definitions of what a human is in order to dehumanize the unborn. science undoubtedly proves that at the moment of conception, a new human being is formed, with 46 human chromosomes and human DNA. at that moment, everything about that new human being is determined: gender, hair color, eye color, metabolism, whether they will be right-handed or left-handed, etc.
the definition of "human (noun)" and "human being" are interchangeable. wherever you look, you will see that when either is defined, the other is one of the definitions. in order to be a human being, biologically speaking, one must be a member of the genus homo sapiens, which the unborn are.

8a) "it's not a person."

according to the law, no. but if the law suddenly decided that those under age one are not considered persons, would you be morally comfortable killing them too?

8b) "well, it's not a LEGAL person so they shouldn't have more rights than the woman."

we are not advocating that the unborn have more rights than the mother. we are advocating that their rights are equal. if America was killing off women by the millions so kids could live the way they wanted, the pro-life movement would fight just as much to end that mass slaughter as well.
everyone has the right to live how they want, but they can't kill others in order to do so. when we say someone can't shoot someone in order to get money to buy a house, it's not to say he has doesn't have a right to buy a house or that he has fewer rights his victim; we're saying that someone's right to life is of higher value than someone else's right to buy a house.
this idea also applies to abortion. the abortion industry's own data shows that at least 93% of abortions are done for non-health issue reasons on a totally healthy baby and a totally healthy woman who just doesn't want to be pregnant or have a baby, which shows that the abortion conflict is between the unborn's right to life and a woman's wanting to not to be pregnant, and even though that desire may be rational, she can't be allowed kill for it.
another 6% are performed due to deformities or disabilities of the unborn baby, which makes over 98% of abortions done solely out of convenience.

9) "the fetuses are parasites and a woman doesn't have to be a fetal incubator if she doesn't want it."

parasites are something of a different species than the host. since both the woman and the unborn are members of the genus homo sapiens, they are both human beings, and therefore of the same species. also, during pregnancy, a woman's body goes through changes to deliberately provide nutrients and protect her baby. this does not happen with a parasite.
when a woman decides to engage in sexual activity, she risks pregnancy, even if she uses birth control. an innocent human being should not have to pay with his/her blood because someone's birth control failed. if one is ready for sexual activity, one must be ready to handle the consequences of their actions.
the pro-choice thought is that if people are "acting responsibly," they should not have any consequences. but even if people "act responsible" when driving their cars can still have accidents, and are still responsible for any damage they cause. in the case of engaging in sex, "acting responsibly" is more than using birth control to avoid pregnancy. it's also accepting (before having sex) that the woman may become pregnant, and abortion is about allowing people evade this part of responsibility at the expense of a child's life.

10a) "no one knows when life begins." 10)b "i don't think life begins until ________."

Again, this is another argument of definitions. Arguably, your stance is that all life is sacred, and therefore no life should be taken. However, consider a case of murder in self-defense. Was it wrong to kill? That would probably depends on who you ask (this is another widely debated issue). The thing is, that no matter which stance you take, 99% of the juries will let of the "murderer" without a punishment. And that is the key point here; morals and laws are not the same thing. Yea, it's terrible that a mother chose to kill a fetus/let a fetus die, but that was her decision. Morally speaking, the issue will warrant a variety of opinions. Legally speaking, that shouldn't be an issue.
The issue at hand is the effect the fetus/child will have on the mother. The 9 months she would most likely lose would definitely have an impact on her life and her choice on what to do with it. Arguing that her actions would technically kill an unborn life would be invalid since each dollar she spends on luxury items kills another child that is starving and poor. There are no laws claiming that is illegal to not donating to charity, even if it is morally wrong.

11) "the fetuses aren't sentient. they don't feel anything. they don't care."

This seems more of an argument for HOW they should be killed rather than not killing them. Simply because the methods for doing something are currently crude, doesn't imply that the whole act is immoral. Only the methods are. By this argument, a painless process would take away any moral stigma. Also, the argument relies heavily on the immorality of the act of killing without considering the whole picture. Yea, it's immoral to kill an unconscious or sleeping person, but that person doesn't really affect anyone while unconscious. They don't stand to change someone's life in ways they may not want it to change simply by existing.

12) "it's a legal right. it's about giving women a choice."

Women choose whether or not they will have sex. They should be fully aware, and if they aren't, ignorance is no excuse.

Where are you on Gun Control?

Where are you on Gun Control?

Where are you on gun control?

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on November 21, 2008, 09:36:13 PM

Where are you on Gun Control?

Where are you on gun control?

Gun control is having a steady firing hand.

Quote from: Recusant on November 21, 2008, 09:38:51 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on November 21, 2008, 09:36:13 PM

Where are you on Gun Control?

Where are you on gun control?

Gun control leads to everyone riding unicorns and rainbows.

Fix'd.

Quote from: Recusant on November 21, 2008, 09:38:51 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on November 21, 2008, 09:36:13 PM

Where are you on Gun Control?

Where are you on gun control?

Gun control is having a steady firing hand.

Afuckingmen brother

Guns really take the challenge out of lodging a bullet in someone's brain.

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on November 21, 2008, 09:40:38 PM

Quote from: Recusant on November 21, 2008, 09:38:51 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on November 21, 2008, 09:36:13 PM

Where are you on Gun Control?

Where are you on gun control?

Gun control is having a steady firing hand.

Afuckingmen brother

Why do people feel the need to do that? Amen is not two words. It's not even english.

Also:

Guns really take the challenge out of lodging a bullet in someone's brain.

QFT

Guns are for pussies.

Guns are for pussies.

weapon of choice?

weapon of choice?

Fists, knives, other close-range objects.

I'd rather fight in the old fashioned viking way. two men wrestling naked on a little artificial island, and the guy who goes in the drink first loses.

I go for an old skool dance off.

I'd rather fight in the old fashioned viking way. two men wrestling naked on a little artificial island, and the guy who goes in the drink first loses.

That says alot about who you are. 

A Swede?

Quote from: Wendigo on November 22, 2008, 05:23:32 AM

I'd rather fight in the old fashioned viking way. two men wrestling naked on a little artificial island, and the guy who goes in the drink first loses.

That says alot about who you are. 

An olympian?

A Swede?

A man that wants to wrestle other men naked.

Still, it shows I have more survival instinct than you, who would rather fight with actual weapons.In any case, may we underail the thread again? My sexuality is not the topic of this thread, no matter how flaming I am.

I find it ironic, the same people that are against abortion, are against gays marrying and adopting, giving homes to these unwanted children.

And also against gun control.

Yes, but that makes sense. The more people you shoot the more room there is for everyone. I'm also against gun control.

Me too, but more for the fact that gun control means that the government controls the people to a higher degree than for any wish for normal people to have guns.

The people should be armed so that they may overthrow the government with greater ease.

Which is exactly what the bill of rights says, but obviously they were just referring to a "STATE CONTROLLED" militia. That is of great use if the government mistreats us.

Why is it that libertarians support state legislature over federal legislature anyway? Government is government.

Why is it that libertarians support state legislature over federal legislature anyway? Government is government.

States can make laws that better represent the people in them.

Also less easy to corrupt, a corporation has trouble taking 50 people golfing, to even effect a every state.

Do they mean to attempt decentralization and subsequent secession?

Also less easy to corrupt, a corporation has trouble taking 50 people golfing, to even effect a every state.

I can sense the not entirely nonsense make also a sentence.

Still, it shows I have more survival instinct than you, who would rather fight with actual weapons.In any case, may we underail the thread again? My sexuality is not the topic of this thread, no matter how flaming I am.

 

Why, thanks Wardogg. You really add to the thread.

Quote from: Raist on November 22, 2008, 11:23:04 AM

Also less easy to corrupt, a corporation has trouble taking 50 people golfing, to effect every state.

I can sense the not entirely nonsense make also a sentence.

Yes, and I've slept 12 hours in 3 days. So fuck off. It's fixed for you jackass.