If the Earth is flat why can't you see China on a clear day

Of course, different matters have different properties. But then, answer me with a simple "yes/no"

Do different densities of air, produce variations in the visual appreciation of things?

Dry air or are we considering the addition of water vapor?

Dry air.

I don't think refraction is related to blurry. I mean one can exist without the other. And if there is no significant change from one to the other, why would it be in the middle of the same zone? I mean, in FET you can't see things far away 'cause of the density of air. Then I shouldn't see my hand either.

I don't think refraction is related to blurry. I mean one can exist without the other. And if there is no significant change from one to the other, why would it be in the middle of the same zone? I mean, in FET you can't see things far away 'cause of the density of air. Then I shouldn't see my hand either.

The blurriness of an object at a distance d away from the observer may be expressed as the integral of density ρ over displacement x:

And that means...

(Remember i don't know anything about numbers)

And that means...

(Remember i don't know anything about numbers)

It is the cumulative effect of density between you and the object you are observing that is important. Not the actual density at any one point.

So you are suggesting (correct me if not) that there ain't not accumulative effect in a plane at 2'5 kms?

So you are suggesting (correct me if not) that there ain't not accumulative effect in a plane at 2'5 kms?

There is always a cumulative effect, but it's much less in a plane at altitude than it is when viewing an object on the horizon.

Much less, I can accept that.
But my empirical experience says it's none.

Much less, I can accept that.
But my empirical experience says it's none.

Not noticeable, you mean.

How can one say the difference between "not noticable" and "unexistent", then¿

How can one say the difference between "not noticable" and "unexistent", then¿

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

Nevermind, semantics. Thanks for both discussions.

Quote from: Johannes Kepler on October 05, 2008, 05:24:16 PM

-There will always be a fog bank somewhere in the pacific ocean

How can you be sure?

Quote from: Johannes Kepler on October 05, 2008, 05:24:16 PM

- it doesn't matter that snells law doesn't exactly apply. It matters that it shows that when a wave hits a more optically dense medium it refracts away. This effect is experienced probably millions of times on its way  across the ocean. It doesn't matter that snells law doesn't exactly apply. It matters that light DOES refract. Just because snellls law doesn't apply doesn't mean the refraction doesn't happen. However snells law is close enough to the real thing to get a rough idea of what happens. As I have said earlier.

Snells law does apply.

Thought for the day: How do you know there's a fog bank there?

It just doesn't apply in the way you're trying to say.

Of course snells law applies - for individual refractions. There are a uncountable amount of these refractions and water is not pure so it is not a acurate way of figuring out how a ray will refract over a course of millions of tiny different refractions all at different angles ect.  Talk to any meteorologist and they will say there are always fog banks on the pacific.

You are the worst RE advocate here. Provide proof of your claims.

Quote from: Johannes Kepler on October 06, 2008, 01:06:58 PM

You are the worst RE advocate here. Provide proof of your claims.

I can see a fog bank because of the near infinte occurances of refraction of light. The light sources leaving a fog bank can come fom any number of directions. Hence we see the fog bank as a white bank (white light being all colours mixed)

It's simple geometry plus a little brains.

If china was masked by a fog bank, we'd look west and see a fog bank instead of china. We don't. Try to think of something else that could be obscuring China.

You just contradicted yourself. You don't make any sense. Circular reasoning can't hide the flaws in RE theory.

I dare you to go to the pacific ocean and look for your mythical white fog. Instead you will find a blue sky maybe a little bit foggy.

I used to live near the pacific ocean.
I have traveled there recently, San Diego to be specific.

there is white fog.
Or rather, a white/clear haze.

http://www.volunteer.blogs.com/winewaves/images/golden_gate_bridge.jpg
go look for yourself

All I have said is that light will refract away from china blurring the image.

Furthermore air and fog are not transparent so light will not travel the distance.

All you RE'ers do is fight over petty issues to avoid acknowledging the clear FE victory.