Sunrise Images

Quote

The Sun was not brought back through magnification because the image seen is the Sun shining through distant clouds.

Don't you mean shining through the distant atmosphere?

Osama, why are you defending the perspective theory? It was you who postulated bendy light, remember?

Quote from: General Douchebag on September 29, 2008, 06:44:36 PM

Osama, why are you defending the perspective theory? It was you who postulated bendy light, remember?

Both hypotheses are complete nonsense.

Fixed that for you.  BTW, do those clouds that you talking about happen to be ocean colored?

Quote from: markjo on September 29, 2008, 07:41:30 PM

Fixed that for you.  BTW, do those clouds that you talking about happen to be ocean colored?

No. But there are clouds clearly visible above the Sun, so there is no reason to believe that there aren't more clouds closer to the horizon that aren't directly visible due to their enormous contrast with the brightness of the Sun's rays.

I don't see any reason to believe that there are more clouds closer to the horizon either.

Quote from: markjo on September 29, 2008, 07:48:33 PM

I don't see any reason to believe that there are more clouds closer to the horizon either.

You can't rule it out, though.

You might not rule it out, but I would.

Quote from: markjo on September 29, 2008, 07:52:42 PM

You might not rule it out, but I would.

Go on, then. Prove there aren't any clouds closer to the horizon than those which are visible.

• Most often, clouds completely obscuring the sun's light, thereby "scattering" it in all directions so that it is not possible to observe the sun's outline (for example on a "cloudy day").  This is especially true distant clouds because the sun's light is more horizontal, therefore travelling through more cloud.  This makes the proposed hypothesis extremely unlikely.
  
  
• The idea that the sun is "projecting" itself onto the back on the clouds would only be possible if the sun's rays were travelling in one direction (like a torch).   This is clearly not the case as another observer, hundreds of miles away, can witness the same sunset at approximately the same time.
  

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on September 29, 2008, 07:54:45 PM

Quote from: markjo on September 29, 2008, 07:52:42 PM

You might not rule it out, but I would.

Go on, then. Prove there aren't any clouds closer to the horizon than those which are visible.

I will not "prove", but I will give compelling evidence: 

• Most often, clouds completely obscuring the sun's light, thereby "scattering" it in all directions so that it is not possible to observe the sun's outline (for example on a "cloudy day").  This is especially true for distant clouds because the sun's light is more horizontal, therefore travelling through more cloud.  This makes the proposed hypothesis extremely unlikely.
  
  
• The idea that the sun is "projecting" itself onto the back on the clouds would only be possible if the sun's rays were travelling in one direction (like a torch).   This is clearly not the case as another observer, hundreds of miles away, can witness the same sunset at approximately the same time (give or take 1/2 an hour) in approximately the same part of the sky.
  

I other words, the sun would have to be shining out like a spotlight onto just one area of the clouds, which is clearly nonsense (i.e. It contradicts observations of the sun during the day).

Most often, clouds completely obscuring the sun's light, thereby "scattering" it in all directions so that it is not possible to observe the sun's outline (for example on a "cloudy day").  This is especially true distant clouds because the sun's light is more horizontal, therefore travelling through more cloud.  This makes the proposed hypothesis extremely unlikely.

The idea that the sun is "projecting" itself onto the back on the clouds would only be possible if the sun's rays were travelling in one direction (like a torch).   This is clearly not the case as another observer, hundreds of miles away, can witness the same sunset at approximately the same time.

Can we have an enlarge digital file?  e.g. a crop of the "actual pixels" of the sun in the first photo

Go on, then. Prove there aren't any clouds closer to the horizon than those which are visible.

Quote from: Moon squirter on September 30, 2008, 02:14:04 AM

Most often, clouds completely obscuring the sun's light, thereby "scattering" it in all directions so that it is not possible to observe the sun's outline (for example on a "cloudy day").  This is especially true distant clouds because the sun's light is more horizontal, therefore travelling through more cloud.  This makes the proposed hypothesis extremely unlikely.

The clouds would need to be very thin. Otherwise, you are correct, they would obscure the Sun.

Quote from: Moon squirter on September 30, 2008, 02:14:04 AM

The idea that the sun is "projecting" itself onto the back on the clouds would only be possible if the sun's rays were travelling in one direction (like a torch).   This is clearly not the case as another observer, hundreds of miles away, can witness the same sunset at approximately the same time.

If you're going to make that claim, the least you can do is provide evidence for it.

As the original observer, there weren't any clouds other than the ones in the picture.

OK, lets forget the observers and just think about it.  Does the sun behave like a torch?  -People north America see the same sun at 9:00 EST as do people in Europe at 15:00 GMT  (i.e. at the same point in time).

So it cannot possibly be a narrow "spotlight".

It is a narrow spotlight, if an 80 degree field of light may be considered "narrow". The light then bends outwards. I don't see what you're trying to prove.

I think you've explained it perfectly yourself.  80 degrees is definitely not "narrow".   Therefore the sun is extremely unlikely to be able to project a "small" image of itself (from 3000 miles away) onto the back of a cloud.

Well, now I'm convinced.

It is a narrow spotlight, if an 80 degree field of light may be considered "narrow". The light then bends outwards. I don't see what you're trying to prove.

I think what he is trying to ask how the same spotlight that they are seeing in Britain at 1145 is the same spotlight that I am seeing low on the horizon at 0645.

The light then bends outwards.

Unless the water molecules in the cloud were arranged in such a way that they re-emitted the light at a very well-defined angle relative to that which it was absorbed.

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on September 30, 2008, 04:25:37 AM

Unless the water molecules in the cloud were arranged in such a way that they re-emitted the light at a very well-defined angle relative to that which it was absorbed.

Crystalline clouds that re-emit the light at the angle that can be observed by anyone that is looking?  This specific angle would make it difficult for anyone not in the same location that I am in to observe the sunrise, but people hundreds of miles north and south of here observe sunrise.

Quote from: Moon squirter on September 30, 2008, 04:22:58 AM

I think you've explained it perfectly yourself.  80 degrees is definitely not "narrow".   Therefore the sun is extremely unlikely to be able to project a "small" image of itself (from 3000 miles away) onto the back of a cloud.

Unless the water molecules in the cloud were arranged in such a way that they re-emitted the light at a very well-defined angle relative to that which it was absorbed.

Quote from: Rig Navigator on September 30, 2008, 04:40:09 AM

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on September 30, 2008, 04:25:37 AM

Unless the water molecules in the cloud were arranged in such a way that they re-emitted the light at a very well-defined angle relative to that which it was absorbed.

Crystalline clouds that re-emit the light at the angle that can be observed by anyone that is looking?  This specific angle would make it difficult for anyone not in the same location that I am in to observe the sunrise, but people hundreds of miles north and south of here observe sunrise.

Please reread the bolded portion of my post.

Quote from: markjo on September 29, 2008, 07:52:42 PM

You might not rule it out, but I would.

Go on, then. Prove there aren't any clouds closer to the horizon than those which are visible.

Have you seen the Humber bridge? One of the towers is higher that the other one, and I believe that this is it adhering to the Earth's curvature, thus proving, in my opinion, at least, that the Earth is a globe.

Quote from: Ian loner on September 30, 2008, 12:05:41 PM

Have you seen the Humber bridge? One of the towers is higher that the other one, and I believe that this is it adhering to the Earth's curvature, thus proving, in my opinion, at least, that the Earth is a globe.

Translated into English, and how do you know this?