The FE sun is impossible [revisited]

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 17, 2008, 06:19:47 AM

Your light bending model requires gravitation effect on light to change drastically from what we have observed.

Extreme light bending around stellar bodies is observed. Just look at how sharply the photons of a background star warps then the sun passes in front of it. And the sun is only 32 miles in diameter.

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"According to Einstein's General Relativity Theory, light will be affected in the same way matter is affected by gravity. This is because under this theory, we should think of gravity not in terms of vector like forces, but as a consequence of the "shape" of the universe."

Gravitation via the bending of space-time has not been proven. Einstein never proved that the fabric of space-time exists. There's also a competing theory of Gravity in Quantum Mechanics where Gravity exists through a sub-atomic particle called the Graviton.

Tom,

You're correct about Einstein himself.  However, please see Tests of general relativity.

No one has come out with a Grand Unified Theory to tie GR and QM together. The mechanisms of neither theory have been confirmed past the hypothesis stage. Until the day someone can test the fabric of space-time directly or see a Graviton particle directly, will there ever be a conclusion for the mechanism of gravitation.

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Tom,

You're correct about Einstein himself.  However, please see Tests of general relativity.

There are no tests for the mechanism of Einstein's space-time bending. The Graviton theory of Gravity from Quantum Mechanics makes the same predictions. The Perihelion precession of Mercury, etc. is accounted for by Graviton theory.

No one has come out with a Grand Unified Theory to tie GR and QM together. The mechanisms of neither theory have been confirmed pas the hypothesis stage.

Hmm, sort of like UA?

The mechanisms of bendy space and sub-atomic Graviton particles are not necessary to explain our universe.

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 17, 2008, 06:19:47 AM

Your light bending model requires gravitation effect on light to change drastically from what we have observed.

Extreme light bending around stellar bodies is observed. Just look at how sharply the photons of a background star warps then the sun passes in front of it. And the sun is only 32 miles in diameter.

Quote

"According to Einstein's General Relativity Theory, light will be affected in the same way matter is affected by gravity. This is because under this theory, we should think of gravity not in terms of vector like forces, but as a consequence of the "shape" of the universe."

Gravitation via the bending of space-time has not been proven. Einstein never proved that the fabric of space-time exists. There's also a competing theory of Gravity in Quantum Mechanics where Gravity exists through a sub-atomic particle called the Graviton.

The Graviton theory of gravitation from Quantum Mechanics makes the same predictions. The Perihelion precession of Mercury, etc. are accounted for by Graviton theory.

your forgetting these people have conspiracies with nasa

Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 28, 2008, 02:09:05 AM

The mechanisms of bendy space and sub-atomic Graviton particles are not necessary to explain our universe.

FET hasn't actually attempted to explain anything.  It just says
  The earth looks flat because it is flat.
  The earth is accelerating upwards, because something is accelerating it.
  The heavens stay in the sky (although they don't look flat).

Also, most evidence that opposes/disproves FET is part of the conspiracy.

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 17, 2008, 06:19:47 AM

Your light bending model requires gravitation effect on light to change drastically from what we have observed.

Extreme light bending around stellar bodies is observed. Just look at how sharply the photons of a background star warps then the sun passes in front of it. And the sun is only 32 miles in diameter.

"According to Einstein's General Relativity Theory, light will be affected in the same way matter is affected by gravity. This is because under this theory, we should think of gravity not in terms of vector like forces, but as a consequence of the "shape" of the universe."

Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 27, 2008, 11:58:59 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 17, 2008, 06:19:47 AM

Your light bending model requires gravitation effect on light to change drastically from what we have observed.

Extreme light bending around stellar bodies is observed. Just look at how sharply the photons of a background star warps then the sun passes in front of it. And the sun is only 32 miles in diameter.

I never said extreme light bending wasn't observed under certain conditions. Just that the bendy light model fails to meet those conditions. Light is bent by large gravitational fields and the geodesics in space time curvature (or some other cause with the same effect) Gravitation only effecting light is complete speculation and is in direct conflict with all scientific observations in this regard.

In order for bendy light to work, it would have to 'attract' (for lack of a better word) light without having an influence on massive objects. This is, simply put, wrong.
 

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"According to Einstein's General Relativity Theory, light will be affected in the same way matter is affected by gravity. This is because under this theory, we should think of gravity not in terms of vector like forces, but as a consequence of the "shape" of the universe."

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 28, 2008, 07:20:45 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 27, 2008, 11:58:59 PM

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on September 17, 2008, 06:19:47 AM

Your light bending model requires gravitation effect on light to change drastically from what we have observed.

Extreme light bending around stellar bodies is observed. Just look at how sharply the photons of a background star warps then the sun passes in front of it. And the sun is only 32 miles in diameter.

I never said extreme light bending wasn't observed under certain conditions. Just that the bendy light model fails to meet those conditions. Light is bent by large gravitational fields and the geodesics in space time curvature (or some other cause with the same effect) Gravitation only effecting light is complete speculation and is in direct conflict with all scientific observations in this regard.

In order for bendy light to work, it would have to 'attract' (for lack of a better word) light without having an influence on massive objects. This is, simply put, wrong.
 

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"According to Einstein's General Relativity Theory, light will be affected in the same way matter is affected by gravity. This is because under this theory, we should think of gravity not in terms of vector like forces, but as a consequence of the "shape" of the universe."

Light is bent by Dark Energy, not gravitation.

Do you have any experimental evidence to support this claim?

That is experimental, but not specific to for Dark Energy as the cause. I can't think of a reason to even connect the two concepts.

What other reason can you think of for light bending upwards while ordinary matter is unaffected?

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on September 28, 2008, 07:46:54 PM

What other reason can you think of for light bending upwards while ordinary matter is unaffected?

How do we know light is bending upward?

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=22317.0

"Evidence in its broadest sense includes anything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion."
"Scientific evidence usually goes towards supporting or rejecting a hypothesis."

Quote from: markjo on September 28, 2008, 07:40:40 PM

Do you have any experimental evidence to support this claim?

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=22317.0

Quote from: markjo on September 28, 2008, 07:40:40 PM

Do you have any experimental evidence to support this claim?

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=22317.0

You may as well cite the "window test", as it supports both a FE and RE.

IMO Bendy light is effectively a concession by the FEers that the world does indeed look curved on closer inspection.   I say "curved" because bendy light appears to product a parabolic curve rather that a spherical one.  -Possible basis for a test?

If you can come up with a test that can distinguish between a parabola and a secant curve on such a large scale, I'd love to hear it.

Quote from: Moon squirter on September 29, 2008, 01:08:08 AM

You may as well cite the "window test", as it supports both a FE and RE.

IMO Bendy light is effectively a concession by the FEers that the world does indeed look curved on closer inspection.   I say "curved" because bendy light appears to product a parabolic curve rather that a spherical one.  -Possible basis for a test?

If you can come up with a test that can distinguish between a parabola and a secant curve on such a large scale, I'd love to hear it.

But as has been pointed out, there have been several tests done that confirm that light travels in straight lines.

Please elaborate.

One of the premises of 'bendy light" is that, well, light bends.  Any interferometer relies on the fact that light travels in straight line paths to function correctly.  If light was being bent upwards at the rate required by FET to create a horizon, it would invalidate those devices, and many others that are required to "assume" that light travels in straight lines.

Quote from: Rig Navigator on September 29, 2008, 01:46:23 AM

One of the premises of 'bendy light" is that, well, light bends.  Any interferometer relies on the fact that light travels in straight line paths to function correctly.  If light was being bent upwards at the rate required by FET to create a horizon, it would invalidate those devices, and many others that are required to "assume" that light travels in straight lines.

Obviously, this is evidence that light will not bend inside an interferometer, probably due to quantum effects. When you are not making observations with the interferometer, the light will bend. When you use it to collect data, the waveform collapses and the light moves in a straight line.