Why bother

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Hammod

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Why bother
« on: August 19, 2008, 01:24:22 PM »
Why does anyone try to convince these morons that the earth is not flat? I can honestly say that I thought that this site was a joke, I despair at the continued existence of the human race when such limitless stupidity exists.

Also why do the flat eathers feel that the real earthers have to proove that the earth is an roughly spherical? The burden of proof is the other way around surely?

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Mohnzh

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 01:30:00 PM »
Burden of Proof is the equivalent of a curse word, with no one agreeing to the definition. Someone who truly seeks knowledge will always place the BoP on themselves - not to prove something to someone else, but to discover Truth. The more common mindset of both FEers and REers here, however is: "I would rather BELIEVE I am right rather than actually BE right."

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 01:53:00 PM »
My recommendation is that you always assume the burden of proof is on you.  If you feel confident about the shape of the earth, then you ought to be able to prove it.

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 01:54:47 PM »
Burden of Proof is the equivalent of a curse word, with no one agreeing to the definition. Someone who truly seeks knowledge will always place the BoP on themselves - not to prove something to someone else, but to discover Truth. The more common mindset of both FEers and REers here, however is: "I would rather BELIEVE I am right rather than actually BE right."

Burden of proof is not a curse word. The earth is round, there is a mountain of evidence to support this. When I look out of my window to the sea, I see a curved horizon (I know, it must be a government conspiracy of something). Thus, to make an infantile suggestion that the earth is flat moves the burden of proof to the idiot brigade flat earth society.

By the way, because the earth is round, I am right, I don't just believe it, it is a fact - I know this is very inconvenient for the society.

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 01:55:40 PM »
My recommendation is that you always assume the burden of proof is on you.  If you feel confident about the shape of the earth, then you ought to be able to prove it.

Nice try, but as stated, mine is not the burden of proof. Proove to me that the earth isn't spherical.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 01:56:38 PM »
By the way, because the earth is round, I am right, I don't just believe it, it is a fact - I know this is very inconvenient for the society.

You are dumb and post dumb things.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 01:57:36 PM »
If you "know" the earth is round, can't you prove that?

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 01:58:02 PM »
By the way, because the earth is round, I am right, I don't just believe it, it is a fact - I know this is very inconvenient for the society.

You are dumb and post dumb things.

What a well thought out argument, did it take you long?

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Parsifal

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 02:02:54 PM »
What a well thought out argument, did it take you long?

About as long as it took you to categorically state that the roundness of the Earth is a fact without justifying your position.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 02:04:17 PM »
I demand justification!

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apollo11

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 02:05:10 PM »
If you "know" the earth is round, can't you prove that?

We do prove it with the thousands of pictures from NASA/satellites/etc., but you guys chalk it up to this massive conspiracy which you have absolutely zero evidence of. 

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 02:10:05 PM »
What a well thought out argument, did it take you long?

About as long as it took you to categorically state that the roundness of the Earth is a fact without justifying your position.

So you must be able to proove me wrong - off you go then.....

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2008, 02:12:25 PM »
I demand justification!

For the earth being round? Well I suspect that is due to the events surrounding the big bang, when the planets were created. They spilled out forming droplet like shapes, close to spherical.

Or perhaps you want me to justify something else?

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Mohnzh

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2008, 02:13:14 PM »
I'm sorry, I meant to say that "Burden of Proof is a curse word around here". That was left out mistakenly. Unfortunately, you do fall in the category of those who care more about believing they are right than actually being right. Otherwise, you would not demand that burden of proof be on anyone but yourself, nor would you care if proof was profitable for anyone else. Proof for your sake is sufficient, and others need not support their own beliefs. You would desire correction over desiring to correct others. You would seek Truth rather than force your version of it on others. After all, you cannot be certain that your parents are even who they claim to be and that you were not kidnapped as an infant. This is not meant to be inflammatory, it is only an example of something you cannot prove conclusively. You must decide for yourself how much evidence is sufficient for you to be convinced. As it is, you are convinced that the earth is round, yet it is quite possible that it did not even exist until you read the fourth line of this post. If it did not exist and all the evidence you recall hearing or observing only just randomly came into existence as electrons causing the firing of neurons in your brain and that the earth will cease to exist two lines from here, how can you be certain that for this minute and a half the earth is in existence that it is not flat, or cubed, or even a torus? The suggestion may seem ludicrous (as most argument ad absurdum do), but it is only to indicate that the threshold of evidence required for convincing can be different for different people. My best recommendation is to allow all possibilities to exist while giving preference to some over others and behaving as if certain ones were true. To feel as though you must convince others to behave similarly is a sign of weakness in your convictions.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2008, 02:15:32 PM »
So you must be able to proove me wrong - off you go then.....

Did I say that?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2008, 02:22:06 PM »
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Unfortunately, you do fall in the category of those who care more about believing they are right than actually being right
In this case they are synonymous, since I am right.
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Otherwise, you would not demand that burden of proof be on anyone but yourself, nor would you care if proof was profitable for anyone else
The burden of proof is not on me due to the centuries of evidence and scientific experiment which prooves that the earth is round. Any claim to the contrary therefore demands proof to refute the round earth theory, without resorting to infantile conspiracy theory.
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After all, you cannot be certain that your parents are even who they claim to be and that you were not kidnapped as an infant. This is not meant to be inflammatory, it is only an example of something you cannot prove conclusively.
So I suppose that DNA profiling also falls into your neat little conspiracy theory? Because using it I can very simply conclusivly proove that my parents are who they say they are.

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The suggestion may seem ludicrous
Mainly because it is, the earth is around 4 billion years old, I believe that the current evidence suggests this.

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To feel as though you must convince others to behave similarly is a sign of weakness in your convictions.
So why try to convince anyone that the earth is flat, when it clearly isn't?

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2008, 02:23:07 PM »
So you must be able to proove me wrong - off you go then.....

Did I say that?
So I am not wrong, therefore you agree that the earth is spherical - well done.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2008, 02:25:31 PM »
So I am not wrong, therefore you agree that the earth is spherical - well done.

You are dumb and post dumb things.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Rjinswand

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2008, 02:28:15 PM »
If you "know" the earth is round, can't you prove that?

You should lurk more. This has been responded to many times.
Yes, we know you're all very clever with your philosophy: "Why do people believe things that they can't prove?"

Well, as I've said a dozen times on these forums already, theories are for all intents and purposes, un-provable. But they are testable, to quite a hefty extent. This deranged little thought experiment you lot have going on here doesn't make humans out to be the mindless sheep you were hoping for, and therefore fails.

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2008, 02:28:58 PM »
So I am not wrong, therefore you agree that the earth is spherical - well done.

You are dumb and post dumb things.

Oh bless, he loses an argument and then stamps his feet - wait, I'll pick up your dummy for you!

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Mohnzh

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2008, 02:30:57 PM »
Who said I was trying to convince anyone the earth is flat? I am not even trying to convince anyone the earth even exists. It could be flat, spherical, or even shaped like a pigeon winging through space. You have completely missed the point of my last post. Instead of trying to find some way to counter what I say, why not try to understand what I am attempting to say and see if it is not logical.

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2008, 02:33:00 PM »
If you "know" the earth is round, can't you prove that?

You should lurk more. This has been responded to many times.
Yes, we know you're all very clever with your philosophy: "Why do people believe things that they can't prove?"

Well, as I've said a dozen times on these forums already, theories are for all intents and purposes, un-provable. But they are testable, to quite a hefty extent. This deranged little thought experiment you lot have going on here doesn't make humans out to be the mindless sheep you were hoping for, and therefore fails.

Acutally, theories do more than that - they predict things that you didn't already know.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2008, 02:33:50 PM »
Oh bless, he loses an argument and then stamps his feet - wait, I'll pick up your dummy for you!

Your use of non-sequiturs does not constitute my loss of an argument.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2008, 02:36:23 PM »
Oh bless, he loses an argument and then stamps his feet - wait, I'll pick up your dummy for you!

Your use of non-sequiturs does not constitute my loss of an argument.
There are no non-sequitors in this thread - apart from the ones you introduced.

However your complete lack of anything approaching a well founded case is what signals your loss of the argument.

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Rjinswand

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2008, 02:36:52 PM »
If you "know" the earth is round, can't you prove that?

You should lurk more. This has been responded to many times.
Yes, we know you're all very clever with your philosophy: "Why do people believe things that they can't prove?"

Well, as I've said a dozen times on these forums already, theories are for all intents and purposes, un-provable. But they are testable, to quite a hefty extent. This deranged little thought experiment you lot have going on here doesn't make humans out to be the mindless sheep you were hoping for, and therefore fails.

Acutally, theories do more than that - they predict things that you didn't already know.

Well yeah :P But I include that under the blanket term of "testability"

The way I like to put it is: "There's no such thing as 100 percent proof in science. But 99 percent is still a big number"

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Parsifal

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2008, 02:37:28 PM »
There are no non-sequitors in this thread - apart from the ones you introduced.

However your complete lack of anything approaching a well founded case is what signals your loss of the argument.

It's hard to make a well founded case when my opponent keeps putting words in my mouth.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Hammod

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2008, 02:39:38 PM »
There are no non-sequitors in this thread - apart from the ones you introduced.

However your complete lack of anything approaching a well founded case is what signals your loss of the argument.

It's hard to make a well founded case when my opponent keeps putting words in my mouth.

I'm sorry, I haven't put any words into your mouth, I'm still desperatley waiting for you to put some words into your mouth, well coherent ones anyway.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2008, 02:40:48 PM »
I'm sorry, I haven't put any words into your mouth, I'm still desperatley waiting for you to put some words into your mouth, well coherent ones anyway.

How about:

So I am not wrong, therefore you agree that the earth is spherical - well done.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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MadDogX

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2008, 02:41:45 PM »
The determination that the Earth is spherical has been continuously and reliably verified for millennia, by countless scientists all over the world. Therefore, it can be (and is generally) accepted as the truth. When I say the Earth is flat, it is not a claim that needs to be proven again. FET on the other hand is an incomplete and rather inconsistent theory, promoted (historically) by religious zealots who were trying to defend their interpretation of certain passages of the bible. Nowadays it appears to be backed by a small bunch of guys on the internet.

Fact: The Earth is round.

Disagree? Make a logical, consistent and comprehensible case.
Quote from: Professor Gaypenguin
I want an Orion slave woman :(
Okay, I admit it.  The earth isn't flat.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why bother
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2008, 02:42:47 PM »
When I say the Earth is flat, it is not a claim that needs to be proven again.

Good to know.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.