Looking for an intelligent argument. (Terminal Velocity)

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TheEngineer

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2008, 02:31:48 PM »
I've never heard of GR stating anything about constant upward acceleration, only perpetual freefall
Well, perhaps you should study up a little.

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But the special relativity also depends on gravity
Special Relativity has nothing to do with gravity.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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sokarul

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2008, 02:36:03 PM »
Acceleration and gravitation are indistinguishable from each other.

Locally
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kainedamo

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2008, 03:28:46 PM »
Why is it that every topic I enter, FE'ers never give a good debate?  I'm beginning to think the whole website is a joke.

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2008, 04:05:52 PM »
I've never heard of GR stating anything about constant upward acceleration, only perpetual freefall
Well, perhaps you should study up a little.

No, I think he has a point. Could you elaborate, please.

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2008, 04:23:28 PM »

-The burdon of proof is upon you, round earth is the accepted theory(which means it's fully proved). So you have to disprove it(that's how it owrks in the scientific community)

But this isnt the "scientific community", nor has RE been "fully proved" as far as this website is concerned. The default stance here is that the earth is flat. Its up to you to convince us otherwise. If you dont like that, then leave.




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-Same as the first one (gravity)

Gravity doesnt exist. And this has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

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-If you can't see the curvate, you are either willingfull ignorant or you're blind/wear glasses or you haven't been in a plane yet.
http://static.flickr.com/59/177373136_b989aaab0b.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/63/190152302_23a08265ba.jpg?v=0

Do you really think those pictures show curvature? All I see is the camera lens causing a fisheye effect. If that was real curvature, then the earth would have a radius of maybe 1000 miles, tops. And Im an REr who has been in a plane plenty of times.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2008, 06:04:17 PM »
No, I think he has a point. Could you elaborate, please.
When you are in contact with the earth, directly or indirectly, you are being accelerated upwards at 9.8m/s^2.  In the RE.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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kainedamo

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2008, 06:52:43 PM »

-The burdon of proof is upon you, round earth is the accepted theory(which means it's fully proved). So you have to disprove it(that's how it owrks in the scientific community)

But this isnt the "scientific community", nor has RE been "fully proved" as far as this website is concerned. The default stance here is that the earth is flat. Its up to you to convince us otherwise. If you dont like that, then leave.

Cop out.

This is a debate forum.  And as far as I've seen, no evidence that the RE can offer seems to be good enough.  It seems that you want us to do all giving, and all you do is TAKE.  How about a little give and take?  An exchange of different evidence on both sides?  Usually debates have something resembling just that.

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2008, 07:00:23 PM »
theres nothing but proof.. go search for it.

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kainedamo

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2008, 07:05:23 PM »
theres nothing but proof.. go search for it.

Whom are you addressing?  If you're an FE, surely you'd be passionate enough about the topic you'd have a dilluge of links and sources at hand to add merit to the theories of flat earth and give evidence to the worldwide conspiracy.  Why does it seem to me like FE'ers are flat out lazy??  Call me nuts, but it kind of seems like FE'ers can barely convince themselves nevermind convince the rest of the world.

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Robbyj

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2008, 07:11:44 PM »
Call me nuts, but it kind of seems like FE'ers can barely convince themselves nevermind convince the rest of the world.

You came here, we didn't come knocking on your door.  No one, other than the RE'ers, here is trying to convince anyone of anything.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 07:15:27 PM by Robbyj »
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2008, 07:13:29 PM »
It seems that you want us to do all giving, and all you do is TAKE.
Actually I don't think they want anything from you at all. You came here and posted. They didn't knock on your door handing out literature.

ETA: Snap Robbyj
Quote from: General Douchebag[/quote
If Eminem had actually died, I would feel the force realign.
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Of course it doesn't make sense, it's Tom Bishop's answer.

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2008, 07:16:37 PM »
So this is a debate forum that you don't want to debate on...  ???

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kainedamo

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2008, 07:19:01 PM »
Seriously guys, from the pathetic replies to some very basic questions I've seen and asked myself around this forum, the only conclusion I can come to is this - very few of you, if any of you, are actually serious about being flat earthers.

I ask (among many obvious questions in my thread) why no one is willing to go to the ice wall.  I get the pathetic cop out answer "because I know what I would find".  That's stupid.  You would think you guys would be more eager about proving your theories.  There are many more examples.  There are threads FE'ers haven't touched, because you obviously just don't have the answers.  You dodge so many questions.  You lay all the burden of proof on the other side while proclaiming all of it as fake and never providing proof yourselfs.  It's a DEBATE sub forum and you're all horrible debaters.  If it were just one or two of you, but no.  None of you can answer the most simple of questions.  We say, "prove there is a conspiracy".  You simply say "the earth is flat, therefore conspiracy".  That is a child's argument.  You have to see why that isn't good enough, and we've explained why that isn't good enough and when I asked "okay, what OTHER proof is there of conspiracy?" I get yet more cop out answers.

Nobody, not one person, seems to be able to actually answer these questions directly.

You have to see it from my point of view.  From the outside looking in, it looks like a joke.  It looks like you guys aren't serious about being flat earthers.

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kainedamo

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2008, 07:19:42 PM »
So this is a debate forum that you don't want to debate on...  ???

Exactly my point.  They might as well just delete the debate sub forum.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 07:21:18 PM by kainedamo »

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2008, 08:58:22 PM »
its simply arguing for the sake of arguing.

there are no FEers posting on this site..those claiming to believe in FET, don't. quite entertaining to be honest. i have had fun since ive been posting here.

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sokarul

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2008, 09:04:12 PM »
No, I think he has a point. Could you elaborate, please.
When you are in contact with the earth, directly or indirectly, you are being accelerated upwards at 9.8m/s^2.  In the RE.

Negative. 
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TheEngineer

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2008, 09:25:42 PM »
No, it is correct.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Robbyj

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2008, 09:36:55 PM »
General relativity says that gravity is nothing more than an inertial force. This was called the equivalence principle by Einstein. Since the gravitational force on the Earth points downward, it follows that we must be constantly accelerating upward as we stand on the surface of the Earth!

http://physics.nmt.edu/~raymond/classes/ph13xbook/node61.html
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

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sokarul

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2008, 11:14:29 PM »
No, it is correct.
No, to cancel out ones acceleration the earth would actually apply a force. 

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TheEngineer

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2008, 11:33:17 PM »
General relativity says that gravity is nothing more than an inertial force. This was called the equivalence principle by Einstein. Since the gravitational force on the Earth points downward, it follows that we must be constantly accelerating upward as we stand on the surface of the Earth!

http://physics.nmt.edu/~raymond/classes/ph13xbook/node61.html


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2008, 11:34:36 PM »
I find all these discussions about general relativity to be pretty far off topic.

First of all, if the only thing us RE'ers can come up with to poke holes in FE is general relativity, then we're pretty bad. I feel certain 1800s physics can also poke holes in FE and do it with much less noise that always seems to be generated when a discussion about GR starts.

The strongest line in the sand FE has drawn is that they believe in conspiracy theories. Consequently they will not accept the results of any experiment they can not do for themselves. I know of no "General Relativity Home Experimenter's Kit" so again, I think arguments in this vein are doomed to fail to convince FE'ers. I think us RE'ers have much more fruitful paths we can pursue.

One small part of belwyrm's original post was about gravity and within 24 hours 3 pages of this thread were created the majority of it devoted to gravity.

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sokarul

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2008, 11:42:24 PM »
General relativity says that gravity is nothing more than an inertial force. This was called the equivalence principle by Einstein. Since the gravitational force on the Earth points downward, it follows that we must be constantly accelerating upward as we stand on the surface of the Earth!

http://physics.nmt.edu/~raymond/classes/ph13xbook/node61.html

I guess not posting anything is better than posting an incomplete sentence.  Why is it when I push on the wall next to me it doesn't move? 
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2008, 11:46:39 PM »
I find all these discussions about general relativity to be pretty far off topic.


I think they're the very best thing on the forum.

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2008, 11:54:01 PM »
To look at some other questions that have been asked ...
And I just read the FAQ, and I have a couple questions about that.

1. How does the sun change it's point of direction and rotation size exactly proportional to the flat Earth?

2. How do you account for the fact that the length of a day at the summer equinox and the length of a day at winter equinox would be very different. (I'm not talking about length of daylight, I'm talking about actual length of time it takes the sun to go all the way around 24 hours normally)
1. Point of direction & rotation size? Sorry, what are you asking?

2. Obviously if a day is still 24 hours (approx) during any season of the year, the sun's speed during it's orbit must increase/decrease compared to the distance it travels.
Quote from: General Douchebag[/quote
If Eminem had actually died, I would feel the force realign.
Quote from: ghazwozza
Of course it doesn't make sense, it's Tom Bishop's answer.

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Robbyj

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2008, 12:10:04 AM »
Why is it when I push on the wall next to me it doesn't move? 

For the same reason when you are pushed into the ground that the earth doesn't move.
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2008, 12:15:33 AM »
I guess not posting anything is better than posting an incomplete sentence.  Why is it when I push on the wall next to me it doesn't move? 
Mechanical resistance.  But I fail to see how this is a relevant question.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2008, 05:02:12 AM »
No, it is correct.
No, to cancel out ones acceleration the earth would actually apply a force. 

The earth is applying a force. Both in RE and FE. While in your chair you are not experiencing a downward acceleration so the chair is applying an upward force of exactly 9.82 m*s^-2 times your mass that cancels out the gravitational field.

No, it is correct.

No. In RE you experience an acceleration towards the core of the earth. That is downward acceleration, not upwards. Also,  could you please point out to me which part of GR incorporates constant upwards acceleration?


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sokarul

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2008, 07:59:36 AM »
I guess not posting anything is better than posting an incomplete sentence.  Why is it when I push on the wall next to me it doesn't move? 
Mechanical resistance.  But I fail to see how this is a relevant question.

The wall actually applies an equal and opposite force. 
How does an acceleration cancel out a force? 

Also, please use the EP correctly. 
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Parsifal

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2008, 08:01:40 AM »
How does an acceleration cancel out a force?

It doesn't.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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sokarul

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Re: Looking for an intelligent argument.
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2008, 08:13:17 AM »
How does an acceleration cancel out a force?

It doesn't.
Right, so I'm not sure what theengineer is arguing. It almost looks like he is holding the RET to the EP and then saying the earth is accelerating upwards like the FET.   
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