Simple Proof

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Parsifal

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2008, 12:25:37 PM »
Hello, all. I have to admit... I am completely AMAZED. With a small amount of actual research, one can easily discover that the concept of religion is the real conspiracy, designed to hold the general populace in a state of perpetual fear, so as to keep them under control. This is well documented, and as obvious to any thinking human as the fact that all matter tends to succumb to it's own surface tension and form spherical shapes. Take water drops for example. This is an unbelievable endeavor to try to convince anyone that the earth is flat! This kind of ignorance is simply confounding, and illustrates that one of the keys to evolution is the acceptance that we can evolve. When one believes such ignorant and factually unsupported things as religious dogma and flat Earth theories, one holds their own ability to evolve at bay. I am saddened that so many have been duped into this idiocy, yet not surprised. Look at how many Mormons there are in the world... Or just Christians in general... not to mention Jews, Muslims, Hindus... Whatever became of that initial evolving principle? The quest for truth???



NO U

I lol'd, and I lol'd hard.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2008, 12:26:56 PM »
Sometimes anti-religious ramblings are as strange as religious ramblings.

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Rjinswand

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2008, 02:27:34 PM »


Actually it is explained by the dimensional space-warping pseudo Star Trek babble I'm claiming. You just don't like the explanation and aren't satisified by it - not my problem. If you're looking for explanations and understanding I'll try and provide them or be honest and say I don't have any hypothesis for what you mention. If you're looking to change my opinion on the matter you may want to find out what compelled me to support the Flat Earth Theory in the first place otherwise you're wasting your time. If you're looking to be convinced don't bother, it's up to you to go out and try the experiments and make up your own mind - I'm not going to try and force you to see the truth.

As for what you wrote about the Southern Cross, go and get a compass and have a look at where the southern cross is. Go out several times in the one night and see how far from south it ends up at various times.

Well no. To say "space is warped" isn't an explanation, it's just a statement. Anyway, I've looked through this site and can't find details on how this occurs - if you know of a link to an external source or a thread on these forums that I may have missed, then that's great. I'd like to know.
And you're right, you're not going to be able to convince me the earth is flat under any circumstances, so you're right not to really bother trying. I ask because of my desire to understand the thought processes of you and your ilk - how someone can believe something in the face of all logic. I look at other groups the same way, whether they be religious fundamentalists, gay-haters, creationists, or even chem-trail conspiracy theorists. These people are all different to me in quite unusual ways, and I like to be able to try and comprehend why they are the way they are.

So yes, if you COULD tell me why you believe in a flat earth, that would be great. I've asked that question of individuals on this site, and seen many others ask the same thing, but the response is always "lurk moar ples" (which I assume is latin for "my brain fell down")

And, and as a note....I've been a stargazer all my life, and was in my local astronomy club in my hometown for more than five years. I know very well where the southern cross is, how it rotates, and how it appears from New Zealand, Australia, and South Africa. So don't patronise me by telling me to "get my compass out and go and have a look" - I've moved on from the basics.

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Ursa

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2008, 04:25:52 PM »
hi there, original poster here.

firstly i would like to thank the one or two folks who took the time to make reasonable responses, and mention my support for the existence of the FE society, all science needs it's critics.

however after going through the faq again, as directed, i'm afraid i still have a few queries:

Problem 1: Stars that appear to be above the south pole - not covered in the faq, and quite clumsily addressed here.  The southern cross, in addition to the twin pointers, do infact create a consistent reference point to magnetic south, visible from all points in the southern hemisphere, it's been used by sailors for centuries and is readily testable on any given night. In addition, rotating 90 degrees about the earths surface, ie: moving as an observer from New Zealand to South America, rotates ones perspective of the constellation by that very angle, which is unexplained by any optical phenomena. I'm afraid refuting this simple, repeatable experiment requires nothing short of assuming a physical universe other than of our own, one that exists with the sole intent of making it appear like we're on a sphere.

Problem 2: Flight time. I'll reiterate - If indeed New Zealand and South America are on distant edges of a great disc, i should have flown over most of the surface of the disc to get there, however, it was a much shorter flight, across the pacific ocean, stopping in beautiful Samoa. I'm afraid there simply isn't a plane in existence that could make that distance in that time, unless of course, my and indeed everyone in any kind of travel industry in the southern hemisphere was in on the conspiracy too. On closer inspection, within the FE model the only people who seem to be conspired against are people living in the central northern hemisphere, everyone else would need to ignore the fact the land masses around them are vastly different to any map.

Problem 3: Weather patterns. Again, completely unaddressed - how am i getting accurate, testable imagery of antarctic storms from hundreds of miles above the earths surface, as they pass over the south pole, from Argentinian Antarctic Territory to New Zealand Antarctic Territory? A flat earth model would mean this storm is vanishing over one edge of the disc, and appearing at another. My colleagues posted at Scott Base in the Antarctic would simply laugh. Which raises an additional point, the Antarctic is not as remote and unexplored a region as you may assume. Most southern hemisphere nations with any economic or scientific interest there have bases on the continent, which are not as far apart as they would be should they exist on the outer circumference of the world - where may i add, they experience extended days and nights identical to the Arctic, only at opposite seasons, something else not accounted for in a flat earth model, or the faq.

Problem 4: Circumnavigation of Antarctica is commonplace, takes far less time and travels far shorter a distance than would be needed if the antarctic were the circumference of the world. When traveling around the antarctic with it on your right, you are traveling almost constantly in a starboard facing, meaning the land mass is contained within the vector of travel, rather than outside of it. Obviously this problem relates to the previous one, but seeing as the description of Antarctica in FE theory is the central impossibility i see here, this leads me to continue to believe that FE theory is only a plausible conclusion to someone who has not traveled outside of the central northern hemisphere. FE seems to me more an ignorance of the basic physical phenomena of the southern hemisphere, than a disbelief of a spherical earth.

Also, after a little research, it seems the experiments i've seen linked here, in which one 'proves' the earth is flat, have some dire problems in their math. They presume the diameter of the earth to be about 1/100th of it's actual size, so yes, they would produce a result disproving we live on a tiny sphere.

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Guessed

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2008, 04:27:37 PM »
For such simple proof it sure is taking a long time to present and discuss it.
Is Dino open source?

Quote from: grogberries


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lolz at trollz

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2008, 06:28:49 PM »
For such simple proof it sure is taking a long time to present and discuss it.

No, it's taking a long time for them to think up every silly idea they can, mass hypnosis comes next.  There's no southern cross, the TV just tricked them... 
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Video proof that the Earth is flat!

Run run, as fast as you can, you can't catch me cos I'm in the lollipop forest and you can't get there!

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Ursa

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2008, 08:00:29 PM »
i would really appreciate some intelligent dissection of the proposed RE arguments above, the closest to an argument i can get is pretty much everyone outside of the continental united states is in on a conspiracy, to get those within the US to pay tax, which may or may not go toward space research. the roots of this conspiracy curiously seem to date back to centuries before the European settlement of the united states.

i doubt the society has gone on this long without considering the physical world as observed from the southern hemisphere, so i would appreciate some explanation or disproof of my stated observations. i noticed in the faq "the government stops you from getting too close to the ice wall" or something to that effect. That raises a few questions amongst people who live down under, firstly, which government? there is no official dominion of Antarctica, it's divided into regions by the scientific communities of a number of southern hemisphere nations, mostly for the study of marine and bird life, or weather, my chosen field - if indeed 'the government' is stopping people getting there, it's odd then that a colleague of mine was recently contracted by the government to travel to Antarctica to study penguins.

still, i maintain that i understand the FE philosophy, the earth appears flat, so why should i believe otherwise? it's not foolish at all, it's an intelligent conclusion. Until one observes celestial and geographical phenomena at a number of points of on the globe, i suppose it's true one simply has to accept the popular belief by taking it for granted. The earth seems flat, however, from a static vantage point that impression is identical to standing on the surface of a 12,000km wide sphere, however the sphere model more accurately describes the various celestial and physical phenomena we observe from various points on the globe.

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Ursa

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2008, 09:32:08 PM »
i guess i came to the wrong place if intelligent debate was what i was looking for.

i've found nothing but unfounded pseudoscience here.

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Oscar Wilde

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2008, 09:40:16 PM »
Are you talking about your own barren ego?

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Ursa

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2008, 09:43:17 PM »
Are you talking about your own barren ego?

i'm sorry mr wilde, perhaps you have something to offer rather than character assassination? i presented existing environmental phenomenon that need to be ignored in a FE/icewall model, and the only rebuttal i've received is snide remarks and impossible claims, ignorant in the classical sense of simply ignoring that which is clear. is that all FE has to offer?

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2008, 09:45:35 PM »
i guess i came to the wrong place if intelligent debate was what i was looking for.

I guess I'm looking at the wrong post if sincerity was what I was looking for.

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Oscar Wilde

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2008, 10:02:39 PM »
Are you talking about your own barren ego?
i'm sorry mr wilde, perhaps you have something to offer rather than character assassination? i presented existing environmental phenomenon that need to be ignored in a FE/icewall model, and the only rebuttal i've received is snide remarks and impossible claims, ignorant in the classical sense of simply ignoring that which is clear. is that all FE has to offer?
If by "that which is clear" you mean a round earth, then yes, you watery ocular discharge. Feigning offence and educated disgruntlement to cover up the fact that your pathetic and slobbery blatherings are as without a point as John McCain's neck is without a discernable form is not the most original of tactics. If you had lurked moar, perhaps you would have realized this and resorted to trolling of a less popular variety. Alas, you boarded the cattle train bound for the death camp of failure. Perhaps if you read the sign over the iron-wrought gates enough times, you will come to truly believe that "Inanity macht frei".

Consider your character's still-warm corpse violated repeatedly.

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Ursa

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2008, 10:08:37 PM »
i'll sincerely give FE theory another thought when someone who's been anywhere near antarctica attempts to justify it, until then, i appreciate the function FE thinking offers as healthy criticism of modern science - skepticism is necessary - and i can appreciate that from a static perspective in the northern hemisphere it could be perceived that the earth was flat, but when you try to bend the universe to flatten the planet, you're ignoring the overwhelming evidence.

Antarctica is not an ice wall, it's not even that remote. It's frequented by marine biologists and meteorologists from New Zealand, Argentina, and any other number of other nations with economic and scientific interests in the southern ocean - no government is stopping you get there, you can book a tour from new zealand to argentina and back, around antarctica, and it's an impossibly short distance, were the world flat. There are communities like Scott Base there that are populated year round with a full staff, including some of my own colleagues. The south pole being the edge of the world is no more likely than the north pole being the same.

From any point in the southern hemisphere you can look up into the southern sky and see the same constellations above the south pole, as you move around the world, those constellations rotate to the observer at the same rate you pass degrees of latitude, in a flat world theory that is impossible, no optical phenomenon could facilitate that.

FE theory is simply ignoring that physical phenomena in the southern hemisphere are identical to that of the north, only annually opposite in seasons. I can assure you, none of the nations on your FE map in the southern hemisphere look anything like the contorted, grossly stretched versions on any presented FE map.

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Ursa

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2008, 10:16:12 PM »
Are you talking about your own barren ego?
i'm sorry mr wilde, perhaps you have something to offer rather than character assassination? i presented existing environmental phenomenon that need to be ignored in a FE/icewall model, and the only rebuttal i've received is snide remarks and impossible claims, ignorant in the classical sense of simply ignoring that which is clear. is that all FE has to offer?
If by "that which is clear" you mean a round earth, then yes, you watery ocular discharge. Feigning offence and educated disgruntlement to cover up the fact that your pathetic and slobbery blatherings are as without a point as John McCain's neck is without a discernable form is not the most original of tactics. If you had lurked moar, perhaps you would have realized this and resorted to trolling of a less popular variety. Alas, you boarded the cattle train bound for the death camp of failure. Perhaps if you read the sign over the iron-wrought gates enough times, you will come to truly believe that "Inanity macht frei".

Consider your character's still-warm corpse violated repeatedly.


I don't know what you possibly stand to gain by responding in this way, you're not doing anything to help the reputation of this society, while i try to delve further into why it prefers the FE theory over RE. I feel absolutely no discomfort while someone who believes the world is flat tries to make a fool of me, any more than i would if a month old baby scowled at me - the difference in perspective is astonishing.

I found this forum, happily, while reading the BBC news web site, and intrigued to know more, i offered a seldom heard perspective here, that of someone from the southern hemisphere with a working knowledge of Antarctica, a subject to poorly understood by popular FE theory. Continue to violate if you will, but keep in mind it does no good bar exercising your fingers.

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2008, 10:19:30 PM »
See, the thing is, Ursa, no one expects you to give Flat Earth Theory a sincere thought. Just as no one thinks you came here and registered a membership because you were looking for an intelligent debate.  It was duplicitous of you to imply differently. 

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Oscar Wilde

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2008, 10:39:07 PM »
Continue to violate if you will...
Necrophilia; cracking open a cold one. :D

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2008, 10:44:02 PM »
See, the thing is, Ursa, no one expects you to give Flat Earth Theory a sincere thought. Just as no one thinks you came here and registered a membership because you were looking for an intelligent debate.  It was duplicitous of you to imply differently. 

Get 'er, Mrs Peach.  ;D
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Ursa

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2008, 01:48:31 AM »
i'm afraid i tried my best at providing something new to the discussion and i've been met with nothing but, quite literally, ignorance and childish spite. i read your faq, took your variety of theories into consideration, and the world around me, specificly the near-antarctic southern hemisphere, is not the one your society describes. is there any rational rebuttal to this?

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Sean O'Grady

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2008, 05:08:52 AM »
Continue to violate if you will...
Necrophilia; cracking open a cold one. :D

Necrophilia: rigor mortis makes me hard.

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Igetaround

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Re: Simple Proof
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2008, 05:13:17 AM »
Seeing as no other thread has come back to me I will post this here as well.

Before I begin, I am a RE moron. No concept of physics, laws of motion, gravity E=MC2 etc etc.... but allow me to try and engage in a semi sensible discussion.

The earth is flat and constantly moving upwards in the same direction according to FET. So, if I use a telescope to look at stars in Scotland I should be seeing exactly the same stars and constellations as if i was using the telescope in Australia. The stars would never change position relative to my own position as FE and the universe are moving in same direction.

However, the constellations do change relative to my position and new stars and constellations appear depending on the time of year I am observing.

Dont refer me to FAQ, because, as with many questions raised on this forum, the answers are vague and are based on speculation rather than fact. I am merely interested in your theory, scientifically difficult or not.