Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?

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divito the truthist

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2008, 06:24:37 AM »
So you're saying everyone is wrong and you're right because you're confused about your frame of reference? What school have you this engineering degree? How much sucking did you have to do to get through this post secondary institution?

What are you talking about?

We have the Theory of General Relativity giving a potential explanation as to why small objects are pulled towards larger ones. And even if you exclude that, I don't see why it's any worse than relying on dark energy or a UA, something we don't have any explanation for.

DE has an explanation.
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NTheGreat

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2008, 06:26:00 AM »
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DE has an explanation.

It has? I can't say I've ever seen it.

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divito the truthist

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Kill-9

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2008, 06:37:30 AM »
So you're saying everyone is wrong and you're right because you're confused about your frame of reference? What school have you this engineering degree? How much sucking did you have to do to get through this post secondary institution?

What are you talking about?
What precisely are you questioning?
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divito the truthist

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2008, 06:43:05 AM »
What precisely are you questioning?

How is he confused about his frame of reference? Does god talk to you and say objects fall down rather than the Earth meeting them?
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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2008, 06:43:56 AM »
What precisely are you questioning?

How is he confused about his frame of reference? Does god talk to you and say objects fall down rather than the Earth meeting them?
Does god talk to him and tell him that he's the only person in the universe thats right?
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divito the truthist

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2008, 06:45:22 AM »
How do you plan on determining the correctness of physically equivalent events?
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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2008, 06:49:19 AM »
How do you plan on determining the correctness of physically equivalent events?
He's claiming he is right when no one else is. This is what I am having issues with. If you think he's right and everyone else is wrong, then there is something wrong with you.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2008, 06:52:36 AM »
He's claiming he is right when no one else is.

Did you happen to read what TheEngineer quoted NTheGreat saying?

This is what I am having issues with. If you think he's right and everyone else is wrong, then there is something wrong with you.

In my entire time here, TheEngineer has never been wrong. Everytime I research the debate to establish who is correct, he always wins.

Now again, how do you plan on determining the correctness of physically equivalent events?
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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2008, 06:57:12 AM »
He's claiming he is right when no one else is.

Did you happen to read what TheEngineer quoted NTheGreat saying?

This is what I am having issues with. If you think he's right and everyone else is wrong, then there is something wrong with you.

In my entire time here, TheEngineer has never been wrong. Everytime I research the debate to establish who is correct, he always wins.

Now again, how do you plan on determining the correctness of physically equivalent events?
Ah, so you researched the conspiracy and you found he was right? Got some links? I'd love to see some proof on this subject, since there doesn't seem to be any.

You go ahead and believe him then. What I said about you seems to be true then.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2008, 07:38:04 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop
When I look out my window I see a flat earth extending farther than the eye can see. I do not see a globe spinning on her axis. The RE’ers would have us believe that this is an illusion, that the globe earth is, very conveniently, just large enough to create the perfect experience of living on a plane.

Please explain how a horizon that is filled with obstructions such as trees and mountains is a "perfect experience of living on a plane".  And, this possible sphere is 40,000 km in circumference.  That is pretty big Tom.  I mean, unless you were to go to a perfectly flat area (Good luck, and the ocean doesn't count.  There are these things called waves.) and looked out and used precise instruments to measure the horizon, there would be NO detectable curvature just because the Earth is not perfect.


Quote from: Tom Bishop
When I look up into the sky I see small celestial lights moving slowly across the skies. I do not see great massive bodies hurtling through space. The RE’ers would have us believe that this is also an illusion, that those bodies are actually massive balls of matter of unimaginable size and distances.

Wow.  When I look at the sun, I don't see an object 32 miles across.  I see a ball of light I can cover with my thumb.  Face it, the Flat Earth Theory has NO PROOF EITHER.  I mean, in the time I was here, the height of the sun was changed from something like 300 miles (I think) to 3000, just because of some discrepancies pointed out.  And they're still there, Tom.  Mostly of that refraction that you came up with out of thin air.


Quote from: Tom Bishop
When I study the celestial lights as they pass overhead they appear to move on their own accord. I do not observe the Round Earth spinning. RE dogma would have us believe that this is yet another illusion; that the globe earth is spinning at tremendous speeds over a thousand miles an hour – faster than the speed of sound at the equator – despite us being unable to feel this centripetal acceleration.

Right.  So planets just decide to move backwards for a while?  And stars at the Southern regions just decides to slow down as the reach the hub of the planet, where they should go faster?  The current RE model, according to observation, works.  Now, the Flat Earth model works too, in most respects, but the RE one is regular.  The Earth is not special, it is like all other planets.  The sun is not special, it is like all other stars, etc.




Quote from: Tom Bishop
During sunset, when the image of the sun appears to intersect with the earth’s horizon, the RE’ers expect us to believe that this is another illusion. “The sun isn’t really intersecting with the earth” the average RE’er says, “it’s just an illusion!”

What?  The FE sun should not intersect the horizon.  It should get smaller.  I could make a whole thread on this topic.  And, the sun and moon should get smaller, but they don't.  RE explains it good, FE explains it kind of good, with a couple of kinks.


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When I walk off the edge of a chair and observe the surface of the earth, the earth is seen to accelerate up towards me. I do not observe a “bending of space-time” or mysterious sub-atomic particles which permeate all of existence attracting bodies through unexplained quantum effects. RE proponents would have us believe that our experience of an accelerating earth is an illusion, that instead “space is bending,” despite a lack of evidence demonstrating so.

1) You can't see sub-atomic particles.  They are small.  If you want to see one,  you have to look at their movements.  We have detected their movements.

2) [equivalence principle]It can be observed both ways, do not make this argument if you want to be taken seriously[/equivalence principle]

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NTheGreat

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2008, 07:55:12 AM »
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

Isn't that the RE theory dark energy? I thought the FE dark energy was something completely different, as it's force is blocked by whatever is on the bottom of the planet / doesn't have much of an effect on us.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2008, 09:11:22 AM »
Then it comes down to finding something that is separate from both the Earth and us. The only thing I can think of is a celestial object, but as those follow us around in a FE model, they're not much use. CBR, perhaps. You said something about mirrors in another thread, but never really explained how that works...
YOU are non local.  Good Lord, you people are dense.

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We have the Theory of General Relativity giving a potential explanation as to why small objects are pulled towards larger ones.
Ok, so what causes these objects to be 'pulled' towards larger ones?


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TheEngineer

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2008, 09:16:25 AM »
He's claiming he is right when no one else is. This is what I am having issues with. If you think he's right and everyone else is wrong, then there is something wrong with you.
I did not claim I was the only one that was right.  I merely stated that I see the opposite of what you see happen. 


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sokarul

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2008, 09:21:31 AM »

...
In my entire time here, TheEngineer has never been wrong. Everytime I research the debate to establish who is correct, he always wins.

...

That is funny. 
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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2008, 09:33:54 AM »
He's claiming he is right when no one else is. This is what I am having issues with. If you think he's right and everyone else is wrong, then there is something wrong with you.
I did not claim I was the only one that was right.  I merely stated that I see the opposite of what you see happen. 
So you're wrong, but no one is right?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2008, 09:50:59 AM »
I'm not wrong.   ???


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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2008, 09:56:42 AM »
I'm not wrong.   ???
So you're right, and everyone else is wrong? Because if you're right, then the world is flat.. which it isn't, its house shaped.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2008, 10:03:42 AM »
So you're right, and everyone else is wrong?
I am right.  So is everyone that sees the opposite happen. 


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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2008, 10:12:44 AM »
So you're right, and everyone else is wrong?
I am right.  So is everyone that sees the opposite happen. 

So everyone who doesn't see what you see is wrong?
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NTheGreat

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2008, 10:42:52 AM »
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YOU are non local.  Good Lord, you people are dense.

So how can I determine if I'm in an environment accelerating up with no downwards gravitational force, or if I'm in an environment not accelerating upwards, with a large mass below me? As far as I know, it should be impossible to tell from your point of view, making the 'I see this happen/you see that happen' argument useless at suggesting one or the other.

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Ok, so what causes these objects to be 'pulled' towards larger ones?

I believe that the currently accepted theory is the Theory of General relativity. I assume that you are getting at the fact that if you iterate through the causes long enough you'll find one you can't explain, however. It's just as much of a problem for a FE model, though so It's not must use as a counter point to RET.

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ghazwozza

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2008, 10:50:02 AM »
Why Tom's original post is full of crap:

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When I look out my window I see a flat earth extending farther than the eye can see. I do not see a globe spinning on her axis. The RE’ers would have us believe that this is an illusion, that the globe earth is, very conveniently, just large enough to create the perfect experience of living on a plane.

Actually, not quite large enough. On top of a tall mountain the horizon looks curved. I have seen this with my own eyes.

Quote
When I look up into the sky I see small celestial lights moving slowly across the skies. I do not see great massive bodies hurtling through space. The RE’ers would have us believe that this is also an illusion, that those bodies are actually massive balls of matter of unimaginable size and distances.

How could you tell the difference between a close, small object and a distance, large object? This is not an illusion, it looks exactly like you would expect in the RE model.

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When I study the celestial lights as they pass overhead they appear to move on their own accord. I do not observe the Round Earth spinning. RE dogma would have us believe that this is yet another illusion; that the globe earth is spinning at tremendous speeds over a thousand miles an hour – faster than the speed of sound at the equator – despite us being unable to feel this centripetal acceleration.

How would you observe it spinning? It spins so very slowly (only once in 24 hours, after all), and a back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that centripitel acceleration would be too small to be noticed.

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During sunset, when the image of the sun appears to intersect with the earth’s horizon, the RE’ers expect us to believe that this is another illusion. “The sun isn’t really intersecting with the earth” the average RE’er says, “it’s just an illusion!”

Ask a RE'er "Why does the sun seem to slide behind the horizon?" and he/she will say "Its just an illusion!"

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When I walk off the edge of a chair and observe the surface of the earth, the earth is seen to accelerate up towards me. I do not observe a “bending of space-time” or mysterious sub-atomic particles which permeate all of existence attracting bodies through unexplained quantum effects. RE proponents would have us believe that our experience of an accelerating earth is an illusion, that instead “space is bending,” despite a lack of evidence demonstrating so.

Why would you? All you have are your eyes (for detecting light), your ears (for detecting sound), your skin (for detecting pressure) and your tongue/nose (for detecting certain molecules). Why would you feel the curvature of spacetime?

The RE model contains fewer "illusions" than the FE model (e.g. rising and setting sun, moon, star "gears" to give the appearence of rotating beneath them, sinking ship etc. etc.).

Also, from another post:
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Your proof consists of repeatedly saying "It's all an illusion!" or "your eyes are playing tricks on you!"

That's not evidence at all, really.

It is if you can explain why your eyes are playing tricks.

To sum up, all of these "illusions" in RET follow nicely from the simple model of the solar system. In FET, different explanation hae to be invoked to explain each illusion seperately.


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TheEngineer

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2008, 11:30:45 AM »
So everyone who doesn't see what you see is wrong?
Uh, pretty sure I said the exact opposite.


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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2008, 11:32:35 AM »
So everyone who doesn't see what you see is wrong?
Uh, pretty sure I said the exact opposite.
So everyone who does see what you see is wrong?
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sokarul

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2008, 01:36:13 PM »
So everyone who doesn't see what you see is wrong?
Uh, pretty sure I said the exact opposite.
So everyone who does see what you see is wrong?

hahaha it sucks for them when you give them a taste of their own medicine. 
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The Terror

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2008, 02:23:57 PM »
In my entire time here, TheEngineer has never been wrong.

Are you insane?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2008, 03:02:25 PM »
So everyone who does see what you see is wrong?
Uh, pretty sure I said the exact opposite.


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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2008, 05:22:12 PM »
So everyone who does see what you see is wrong?
Uh, pretty sure I said the exact opposite.
So... no one that sees what you see is wrong?
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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2008, 05:23:59 PM »
hahaha it sucks for them when you give them a taste of their own medicine. 
Like ..fuck man. How many times can I reverse this? Engy, I repeated what you said, you said I;m wrong. I tried another variant and you said its the reverse.. I reversed it and now its the reverse. Get your answer straight, get your model straight, and take off that fucking ring you don't deserve.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Why is the Round Earth model full of illusions?
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2008, 05:40:15 PM »
So... no one that sees what you see is wrong?
Right.  Those that see the opposite of what I see are also not wrong.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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