Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light

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Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« on: February 12, 2008, 11:13:33 AM »
Get with the times.

http://www.universetoday.com/2003/01/10/gravity-moves-at-the-speed-of-light/

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Theorized by Einstein for almost a century, physicists have found evidence to support the theory that the force of gravity moves at the speed of light. The speed was measured by physicist Sergei Kopeikin by watching how light from a distant quasar was bent by Jupiter's gravity. Variations in how the image of the quasar was bent accounted for this speed of gravity.

A few questions:

If the Earth is flat, how can I start at say New York and if I travel West for long enough, I will reach New York again. Or vice versa.

If the Earth is flat, how are satellites orbiting the planet?

If the Earth is flat, why do we have time zones? How can the sun rise at different times in different places? The seasons are caused by the Earth's tilt on its axis in combination with its orbit. This is fact.

If you have ever been on a ship you know that a ship sinks below the Horizon gradually, because the surface of the planet is curved.


The higher you climb on the planet, the farther away you can see. For example, if I am standing on the surface of the Earth at the exact moment that the sun sets and I suddenly climb 200 feet upwards in an instant. I will be able to see the sun again. This is due to the curvature of the Earth.

Everywhere on Earth, objects will only fall towards the center of the planet. Because it is a sphere.

You can see different constellations from different places on Earth, because they were hidden below the horizon.


You are all very deluded.

Let me guess, this is all part of a conspiracy by Globalists?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 11:23:27 AM by shadowstrife »

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2008, 11:14:43 AM »
*sigh* read the FAQ
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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2008, 11:14:49 AM »
Go go gadget FAQ!

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divito the truthist

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2008, 11:23:47 AM »
Nice quotes from the article:

"We have determined that gravity's propagation speed is equal to the speed of light within an accuracy of 20 percent,"

"We now know that the speed of gravity is probably equal to the speed of light"

Accuracy of 20% AND probably? Incredible.

Yes, and read the FAQ. Your answers only require limited brain function.
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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2008, 11:27:44 AM »
None of your answers in the faq make any sense.

Saying it is a 'conspiracy' does not make it true.

I would like to see you back up some claims with scientific evidence.

You can not fall of the edge of the Earth. This is proven thousands a time every single day.


"Accuracy of 20% AND probably? Incredible."

The accuracy of 20% means they calculated the speed of gravity to within 0.8 - 1.2 times the speed of light, which is consistent with general relativity. It does not mean that they have a 20% chance of being right.

I can see why YOUR answers require limit brain function, after a peruse of the so called 'faq'. I'm glad insulting people makes you feel better and more intelligent.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 11:32:24 AM by shadowstrife »

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2008, 11:30:05 AM »
Thems is the answers, like it or lump it. I prefer to pump it myself though.

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2008, 11:33:30 AM »
Thems is the answers, like it or lump it. I prefer to pump it myself though.

Again, science requires proof.

Flat Earth can not be scientifically proven. It is a fallacy.

Saying that the conspiracy is responsible for a lack of scientific evidence is a Non sequitur.

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2008, 11:40:39 AM »
Thems is the answers, like it or lump it. I prefer to pump it myself though.

Again, science requires proof.

Flat Earth can not be scientifically proven. It is a fallacy.

Saying that the conspiracy is responsible for a lack of scientific evidence is a Non sequitur.

Actually science doesn't require proof, science requires disproof. But anyway your search for science will be fruitless here.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2008, 11:41:40 AM »
Saying it is a 'conspiracy' does not make it true.

Very good.

I would like to see you back up some claims with scientific evidence.

Scientific evidence of what?

You can not fall of the edge of the Earth. This is proven thousands a time every single day.

How is it proven? How many people do you know going to the edge of the Earth?

The accuracy of 20% means they calculated the speed of gravity to within 0.8 - 1.2 times the speed of light, which is consistent with general relativity. It does not mean that they have a 20% chance of being right.

Of course it's consistent with GR. Refer to the gravity thread for more.

I'm glad insulting people makes you feel better and more intelligent.

It does nothing of the sort.
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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2008, 11:45:30 AM »
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Scientific evidence of what?

Of any of the claims in the FAQ. All the FAQ did was spout a bunch of nonsense. It did not offer up any proof, only ludicrous claims.


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How is it proven? How many people do you know going to the edge of the Earth?

People that travel in airplanes. Or boats.


What about satellites? I guess they don't exist eh?

If the Earth is flat, how can a ship disappear over the horizon when viewed from another ship?

If the sun has set, how can I travel to a higher altitude and still see the sun?

This is due to the curvature of the Earth.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 11:48:24 AM by shadowstrife »

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2008, 11:46:42 AM »
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What about satellites? I guess they don't exist eh?

Now I know for definite that you haven't read the FAQ.


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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2008, 11:46:45 AM »
Thems is the answers, like it or lump it. I prefer to pump it myself though.

Again, science requires proof.

Flat Earth can not be scientifically proven. It is a fallacy.

Saying that the conspiracy is responsible for a lack of scientific evidence is a Non sequitur.

Actually science doesn't require proof, science requires disproof. But anyway your search for science will be fruitless here.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2008, 11:50:46 AM »
People that travel in airplanes. Or boats.

Proof you haven't read the FAQ.

What about satellites? I guess they don't exist eh?

More proof.

If the Earth is flat, how can a ship disappear over the horizon when viewed from another ship?

Refer to the thread, "Sinking Ship Effect" made by me.

If the sun has set, how can I travel to a higher altitude and still see the sun?

Hypothetical.
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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2008, 11:52:42 AM »

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But anyway your search for science will be fruitless here.

Too true! Nothing in the FAQ can be proven because every single experiment points to the Earth as a sphere.

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2008, 11:56:34 AM »
You'll do well, not even finished page one and you have seen the light. The only real reason to be here is the off-topic boards.

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2008, 11:58:37 AM »
If the sun has set, how can I travel to a higher altitude and still see the sun?

Hypothetical.
[/quote]

It is not hypothetical. Say it was sunset and I decided to call someone who was in an airplane that was directly overhead. He would still be able to see the sun because he can see farther along the curve of the Earth.


I have read your 'faqs' It is ridiculous. Antarctica is not an 'Ice Wall' that stretches all the way around the Earth. In fact, you can fly over Antarctica or the North Pole and this is proof enough that the Earth is not flat.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2008, 12:00:07 PM »
It is not hypothetical. Say it was sunset and I decided to call someone who was in an airplane that was directly overhead. He would still be able to see the sun because he can see farther along the curve of the Earth.

"Saying" it is something is hypothetical...

I have read your 'faqs' It is ridiculous. Antarctica is not an 'Ice Wall' that stretches all the way around the Earth. In fact, you can fly over Antarctic or the North Pole and this is proof enough that the Earth is not flat.

You can fly over Antarctica and the North Pole in a flat Earth too. Really, you should read the FAQ.
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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2008, 12:22:55 PM »
You can fly over Antarctica and the North Pole in a flat Earth too. Really, you should read the FAQ.

Sorry, but I have read your 'FAQ' and they are ridiculous.

I might as well say that Humans and Dinosaurs co-existed at the same time.

Do FEists believe in the speed of light? The FAQs claim that the stars are 3100 miles away. This is impossible. It has been measured but I guess you will never accept that since they are in on the conspiracy too. You use Special Relativity equations to support your argument, yet you are denying its validity at the same time.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 12:25:00 PM by shadowstrife »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2008, 01:11:11 PM »
Q: If the Earth is flat, how can I start at say New York and if I travel West for long enough, I will reach New York again. Or vice versa.

A: The Earth is laid out like the emblem of the United Nations. North is Hubward, South is Rimward, East is Turnwise, and West is Widdershins.

Q: If the Earth is flat, how are satellites orbiting the planet?

A: They're not.

Q: If the Earth is flat, why do we have time zones? How can the sun rise at different times in different places? The seasons are caused by the Earth's tilt on its axis in combination with its orbit. This is fact.

A: The radius of the sun's orbit around the Earth's axis symmetry varies throughout the year, being smallest when summer is in the northern annulus and largest when it is summer in the southern annulus.

Illustration:


Q: If you have ever been on a ship you know that a ship sinks below the Horizon gradually, because the surface of the planet is curved.

A: It's a perspective effect. The ship is intersecting the vanishing point.

Q: The higher you climb on the planet, the farther away you can see. For example, if I am standing on the surface of the Earth at the exact moment that the sun sets and I suddenly climb 200 feet upwards in an instant. I will be able to see the sun again. This is due to the curvature of the Earth.

A: It's a perspective effect. When you ascend in altitude you are broadening your perspective lines in relation to the earth, therefore you can see farther away before distant bodies reach the angle along the perspective lines which constitutes the vanishing point.

Q: Everywhere on Earth, objects will only fall towards the center of the planet. Because it is a sphere.

A: An object in free fall doesn't fall down to the earth. The earth actually accelerates up to the object.

Q: You can see different constellations from different places on Earth, because they were hidden below the horizon.

A: You can see different constellations on different parts of the earth because when you move across the earth you are changing your perspective of the stars.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 01:13:07 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2008, 01:11:56 PM »
Rimward ftw.

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2008, 01:18:38 PM »
Rimward ftw.

I don't even know what to say.

I'm speechless.

Again, nothing Tom just said is provable. It is all just meaningless jargon that they seem to love to spout.

"Perspective Effect" - hilarious.

Can you prove that the Earth is accelerating up towards the object?

For that matter, the burden of proof is on your end as there is endless amounts of proof to suggest the Earth is round.

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sokarul

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2008, 01:19:46 PM »
Q: If the Earth is flat, how can I start at say New York and if I travel West for long enough, I will reach New York again. Or vice versa.

A: The Earth is laid out like the emblem of the United Nations. North is Hubward, South is Rimward, East is Turnwise, and West is Widdershins.
Compassas still don't work on the fe.

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Q: If the Earth is flat, how are satellites orbiting the planet?

A: They're not.
One can see them.  You are using a few right now.  
Quote
Q: If the Earth is flat, why do we have time zones? How can the sun rise at different times in different places? The seasons are caused by the Earth's tilt on its axis in combination with its orbit. This is fact.

A: The radius of the sun's orbit around the Earth's axis symmetry varies throughout the year, being smallest when summer is in the northern annulus and largest when it is summer in the southern annulus.
Noting says the sun will change its orbital radius.  Only magic would.  

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Illustration:


Q: If you have ever been on a ship you know that a ship sinks below the Horizon gradually, because the surface of the planet is curved.

A: It's a perspective effect. The ship is intersecting the vanishing point.
This have been disproven hundreds of times.  

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Q: The higher you climb on the planet, the farther away you can see. For example, if I am standing on the surface of the Earth at the exact moment that the sun sets and I suddenly climb 200 feet upwards in an instant. I will be able to see the sun again. This is due to the curvature of the Earth.

A: It's a perspective effect. When you ascend in altitude you are broadening your perspective lines in relation to the earth, therefore you can see farther away before distant bodies are lost to the vanishing point.
The re explination for this works.  Yours doesn't.

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Q: Everywhere on Earth, objects will only fall towards the center of the planet. Because it is a sphere.

A: An object in free fall doesn't fall down to the earth. The earth actually accelerates up to the object.
 You cannot prove this.  

Quote
Q: You can see different constellations from different places on Earth, because they were hidden below the horizon.

A: You can see different constellations on different parts of the earth because when you move across the earth you are changing your perspective of the stars.

Distances disprove this.  If you can only see an object 1000 miles away you better be able to see it from any direction.  It can't just not apply when you cross the equator.  

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2008, 01:23:50 PM »
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I don't even know what to say.

I'm speechless.

Again, nothing Tom just said is provable. It is all just meaningless jargon that they seem to love to spout.

"Perspective Effect" - hilarious.

Perspective is not only the shrinking of objects as they recede, but the gradual descent of receding bodies into the surface of the earth.

Although an airplane might be at all times the same altitude above the earth's surface, on approach it may appear to ascend to overhead, and thence to descend and disappear, or set, into the horizon as it recedes. This phenomenon arises from the operation of a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective. A flock of birds, when passing over a flat or marshy country, always appears to descend is it recedes; and if the flock is extensive, the first bird appears lower or nearer to the horizon than the last, although they are at the same actual altitude above the earth immediately beneath them. When a hot air baloon flies away from an observer, without increasing or decreasing its altitude, it appears to gradually approach the horizon. In a long row of lamps, the second--supposing the observer to stand at the beginning of the series---will appear lower than the first; the third lower than the second; and so on to the end of the row; the farthest away always appearing the lowest, although each one has the same altitude; and if such a straight line of lamps could be continued far enough, the lights would at length descend, apparently, to the horizon, or to a level with the eye of the observer. This explains how overhead bodies descend into the horizon as they recede.

Once the lower part of the plane meets the horizon line, however, it will intersect with the vanishing point and become lost to human perception as the plane's increasingly shallow path creates a tangent of perspective lines beyond the resolution of the human eye. The vanishing point is created when the perspective lines are angled less than one minute of a degree. Hence, this effectively places the vanishing point a finite distance away from the observer.

Usually it is taught in art schools that the vanishing point is an infinite distance away from the observer, as so:



However, since man cannot perceive infinity due to human limitations, the perspective lines are modified and placed a finite distance away from the observer as so:



This finite distance to the vanishing point is what allows ships to ascend into horizon and disappear as their hulls intersect with the vanishing point. Every receding star and celestial body in the night sky likewise disappears after intersecting with the vanishing point.

For more information please read Chapter 14 of Earth Not a Globe

Perhaps the most visually stunning fact which proves the earth as a plane is the sinking ship effect. As a ship recedes into the ocean's horizon, distant from the observer, it will appear to the naked eye to sink from the bottom up into the sea after it touches the horizon line. It has been found that this effect is purely perceptual, that a good telescope with sufficient zoom will change the observer's perspective and bring the ship's hull back in full view. This is not possible if the ship were really behind a "hill of water." Hence, the effect which is usually thought to prove the earth as a globe really proves it to be a plane.

It's one of the first and primary proofs of a Flat Earth. The fact that a telescope can restore a half-sunken ship demonstrates that the ship is not traveling behind a convex sea.

From Zetetic Cosmogony by Thomas Winship we read:











How does your model of the earth explain away these explicitly detailed accounts?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2008, 01:25:47 PM »
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Can you prove that the Earth is accelerating up towards the object?

When I walk off the edge of a table and observe the surface of the earth carefully while I go into freefall I can observe that the earth accelerates up to me.

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For that matter, the burden of proof is on your end as there is endless amounts of proof to suggest the Earth is round.

What's the simplest explanation; that man has successfully designed and built multi-trillion dollar rocket technologies from scratch to send massive payloads into space, and that NASA can do the impossible on a daily basis, win the Space Race, and constantly wow the nation by landing a man on the moon and sending robotic rovers to mars; or that they really can't do all of that stuff and it's all just a Conspiracy?

What's the simplest explanation; that when I look out my window and see a Flat Earth that my eyes are deceiving me and that I am actually looking at the enormous sphere of the earth spinning through space at tens of thousands of miles an hour, whirling in perpetual epicycles around the universe; or that my eyes are not playing tricks on me and that the earth is exactly as it appears?

When I walk off the edge of a three foot drop off and go into free fall while observing the surface of the earth carefully the earth appears to accelerate up towards me. What's the simplest explanation; that there exists an unknown and unproven mechanism inherent in all bodies which allows them to accelerate into each other via unexplained quantum effects; or that this mysterious highly theoretical force does not exist and the earth is just being pushed upwards from its underside?

What's the simplest explanation; that when I look up and see the sun slowly move across the sky over the course of the day, that the globe earth is spinning at over a thousand miles per hour - faster than the speed of sound at the equator - despite me being unable able to feel this centripetal acceleration, or that the sun itself is just moving across the sky exactly as I have observed?

What's the simplest explanation; that the sun, moon, and stars are enormous bodies of unimaginable mass, size, and distances which represent frontiers to a vast and infinite unknowable universe teeming with alien worlds, galactic civilizations, black holes, quarks and nebulae, and phenomena only conceivable in science fiction; or that the universe isn't so large or unknown and when we look up at the stars we are just looking at small points of light exactly they appear to be?

The Flat Earth Theory is the simplest explanation for the apparent and observable. Every moment of earthly existence indicates that we live upon a plane. Therefore the burden of proof is on you to prove that the earth is actually a globe.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 01:38:42 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2008, 01:27:11 PM »
OMG The Earth is a glove!!!

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2008, 01:27:44 PM »
Damn he edited it!!!

Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2008, 01:30:56 PM »
Sorry Tom but you're explanations for timezones, the seasons, sun-rise and sun-set and all that jazz do not make any sense.

They are against all observable evidence.

The Earth is curved. You can see this when you watch a ship gradually disappear over the horizon.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2008, 01:34:38 PM »
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Sorry Tom but you're explanations for timezones, the seasons, sun-rise and sun-set and all that jazz do not make any sense.

Timezones are artificial concepts to make everyone's clocks read 12pm when the sun is nearly directly overhead.

Seasons occur via the natural expansion and retraction of the sun's orbit every six months. This is observed through the Sun's Analemma.

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They are against all observable evidence.

Observable and experimental evidence indicates that the earth is a plane. Please read Earth Not a Globe by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham.

Quote
The Earth is curved. You can see this when you watch a ship gradually disappear over the horizon.

As a good telescope can restore the hull of a half-sunken ship, the sinking ship effect is actually an ironclad proof for a Flat Earth.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 02:06:16 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2008, 02:52:38 PM »
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Re: Gravity Moves at the Speed of Light
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2008, 03:35:53 PM »
As a good telescope can restore the hull of a half-sunken ship, the sinking ship effect is actually an ironclad proof for a Flat Earth.

A telescope can do no such thing. If you're speaking from experience rather than from theory (out of your rear end), and you actually think you saw that happen, you need medication.