Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth

  • 114 Replies
  • 22738 Views
*

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1337
  • +5/-2
Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« on: February 10, 2008, 01:00:33 AM »
Jeffrey Burton Russell's book Inventing the Flat Earth:  Columbus and the Modern Historians:
http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Flat-Earth-Columbus-Historians/dp/027595904X

The main point I want to emphasize about Russell's book is his view that no major scientist in the west has advocated flat earth belief since the eighth century.  I can go into greater detail, but my own research tends to bear this out as well.  Strikingly, this corresponds exactly with the rise of islam.

It is funny how I agree (at least very heavily) with the politics of islamic radicals while the majority of westerners hate islamic politics while at the same time heap praises on the islamic contributions to science and the arts.  THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE I SAY ISLAM SHOULD BE CONDEMNED which brings to mind the intrigueing 1977 work by Patricia Crone entitled 'Hagarism' which shows how islam was created by jews using their ishmaelite cousins as an instrument to reconquer Jerusalem (since they failed at it on their own and after Bar Kochba's failed revolt of circa A.D. 130 changed their strategies as laid out in the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds.  The Jerusalem Talmud actually postulates the use of an ishmaelite ally to accomplish political ends.  Islam was used by jews to destroy the ancient Christian world including the ancient and Christian sciences.  An apocalyptic jewish work of the seventh century views islam as a jewish messianic movement and recognizes the caliph Umar (Omar) as the jewish messiah with mohammed as his arab ishmaelite prophet.

  It is well known that islam inherited and preserved the pagan greek sciences which included the novel belief in a spherical earth among other things like the belief of classical physics in five basic elements as opposed to four as per early Christians like Saint Basil and sober scientists like Galen.  Patricia Crone's 'Hagarism' book demonstrates how judaism used the pagan occult sciences to form the muslim sciences - facts which the latter shiite revisionists of the Abbasid dynasty chose to ignore.  Crone's work is based on the earliest historical sources such as the 'Doctrina Jacobi' of A.D. 634 which are more ancient than the oldest islamic sources of a century later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagarism:_The_Making_of_the_Islamic_World
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 01:52:57 AM by 17 November »

?

Althalus

  • 4062
  • +0/-0
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2008, 02:24:05 AM »
No one cares.

?

Fikealox

  • 409
  • +0/-0
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2008, 02:47:03 AM »
This probably belongs in the "Religion and Philosophy" forum.

*

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1337
  • +5/-2
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2008, 03:19:20 AM »
Quote from: Fikealox
This probably belongs in the "Religion and Philosophy" forum.
Although I included a comment or two concerning Christian Orthodoxy, the thesis is that the spread of islamic sciences from the seventh century onwards was a heavy blow to the popularity of flat earth belief, and both the facts I have stated and others which I can show testify to this.  The central concern of my post is flat Earth history which may include analysis of factors (including religious systems) which support flat Earth science or combat it. 

I had earlier been led to believe (as had many others) that the late Shiekh Ben Baz, the Mufti of Saudi Arabia while King Fahd was in power during the 1980's and 1990's issued flat Earth fatwas demanding belief ina flat Earth based on articles like these:
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=14&Topic=841&keywords=abdulbaasit

However, I later found that this was not true:
"Between 1993 and 1995, various newspapers and magazines published accounts that ibn Baaz, whose duties included the presidency of the administration for scientific research, had said that the Earth is flat.  Baz strongly denied that claim, describing the allegation as a "pure lie" and saying that he only denied Earth's rotation.

Supporters of Ibn Baz said that the book in which the flat earth claim was supposed to have been laid out does not exist, and that the entire controversy was based on one interview with Egyptian journalists. They said that Ibn Baz, as he clarified later, was referring to the surface of earth that we walk on being flat although he believed the Earth to be spherical. In Arabic, the same word is commonly used for both the earth as well as the ground. The journalist, having not paid attention to this distinction, misquoted Ibn Baz and created a story; the story was picked up by a Kuwaiti magazine (Assiyasah) and from there spread around the world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd-al-Aziz_ibn_Abd-Allah_ibn_Baaz

Ben Baz himself stated that he only talked of a flat Earth because it appears that way to the naked eye, but it was in his view only figurative language because he "knew" the world was round. 

In my opinion, despite some flat Earth language to the contrary, it seems that such language is not hardly winning flat earth advocates but is rather used to repress any possible development of serious or genuine flat earth inclinations or thought among muslims.  And this seems to be in keeping with muslim tradition and consistent throughout islamic history.

Seemingly pro-flat earth passages in the koran were deliberately included in order not to alienate the predominantly pro-flat Earth Christian majority which constituted the status quo during the formative era of islam.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 03:21:06 AM by 17 November »

?

Conspiracy Mastermind

  • 1836
  • +0/-0
  • There is no conspiracy...
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2008, 03:23:35 AM »
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.


?

Conspiracy Mastermind

  • 1836
  • +0/-0
  • There is no conspiracy...
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

?

Fikealox

  • 409
  • +0/-0
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2008, 04:08:29 AM »
It does seem like it'd be fun... and probably pointless enough to be a game ;)

?

Conspiracy Mastermind

  • 1836
  • +0/-0
  • There is no conspiracy...
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2008, 04:15:37 AM »
It does seem like it'd be fun... and probably pointless enough to be a game ;)
And pointless enough to get us into trouble.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

?

Fikealox

  • 409
  • +0/-0
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2008, 05:42:40 AM »
Yeah, that's true. Plus, I don't want to have to look at this thread that often

?

Conspiracy Mastermind

  • 1836
  • +0/-0
  • There is no conspiracy...
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2008, 05:44:42 AM »
Indeed.
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • +1/-1
  • Extra Racist
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2008, 01:54:33 PM »
Jeffrey Burton Russell's book Inventing the Flat Earth:  Columbus and the Modern Historians:
http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Flat-Earth-Columbus-Historians/dp/027595904X

The main point I want to emphasize about Russell's book is his view that no major scientist in the west has advocated flat earth belief since the eighth century.  I can go into greater detail, but my own research tends to bear this out as well.  Strikingly, this corresponds exactly with the rise of islam.

It is funny how I agree (at least very heavily) with the politics of islamic radicals while the majority of westerners hate islamic politics while at the same time heap praises on the islamic contributions to science and the arts.  THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE I SAY ISLAM SHOULD BE CONDEMNED which brings to mind the intrigueing 1977 work by Patricia Crone entitled 'Hagarism' which shows how islam was created by jews using their ishmaelite cousins as an instrument to reconquer Jerusalem (since they failed at it on their own and after Bar Kochba's failed revolt of circa A.D. 130 changed their strategies as laid out in the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds.  The Jerusalem Talmud actually postulates the use of an ishmaelite ally to accomplish political ends.  Islam was used by jews to destroy the ancient Christian world including the ancient and Christian sciences.  An apocalyptic jewish work of the seventh century views islam as a jewish messianic movement and recognizes the caliph Umar (Omar) as the jewish messiah with mohammed as his arab ishmaelite prophet.

  It is well known that islam inherited and preserved the pagan greek sciences which included the novel belief in a spherical earth among other things like the belief of classical physics in five basic elements as opposed to four as per early Christians like Saint Basil and sober scientists like Galen.  Patricia Crone's 'Hagarism' book demonstrates how judaism used the pagan occult sciences to form the muslim sciences - facts which the latter shiite revisionists of the Abbasid dynasty chose to ignore.  Crone's work is based on the earliest historical sources such as the 'Doctrina Jacobi' of A.D. 634 which are more ancient than the oldest islamic sources of a century later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagarism:_The_Making_of_the_Islamic_World
Because none of them are a giant fucking retarded like you. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

TheEngineer

  • Planar Moderator
  • 15483
  • +0/-0
  • GPS does not require satellites.
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2008, 05:22:38 PM »
Because none of them are a giant fucking retarded like you. 
Same old sokarul.  I have missed you so!


BTW, posting in this manner will result in a ban.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65234
  • +17/-49
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2008, 05:26:53 PM »
Because none of them are a giant fucking retarded like you. 
Same old sokarul.  I have missed you so!


BTW, posting in this manner will result in a ban.

Noooooooooooo don't ban him! I want him to staaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

?

Jim

  • 255
  • +0/-0
  • What year did Jesus think it was?
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2008, 07:35:02 PM »
I'm guessing I'm too new to fully comprehend the greatness of sokarul. 

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • +1/-1
  • Extra Racist
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2008, 08:14:31 PM »
I'm guessing I'm too new to fully comprehend the greatness of sokarul. 
Theres not really any greatness. I would just argue with anyone that sad the earth was flat.  Whether it be a "troll" or tom or anyone.  I got flack from people because even for a split second I wouldn't believe the earth was flat.  They called me troll and stuff for it( yet they are the ones starting hundreds of threads in the complete nonsense part.)
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1337
  • +5/-2
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2008, 08:16:10 PM »
Quote from: Jim
I'm guessing I'm too new to fully comprehend the greatness of sokarul.

Here's a glimpse of him at his finest:
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH HATING, UNEDUCATED, SCIENCE FEARING LITTLE BRAIN.  Science bends you the fuck over and give it to you up the ass.  You have jack fucking shit on any topic you can come up with.  All you do is blame everything on the Jews so its wrong.  Jesus was a Jew you fucking ignorant pieces of shit. And if fucking everyone is a Jew then it stand that Jewish people would have to kill another Jew. Get the fuck over it.
Einstein may be a Jew but he did not use that to come up with anything, unlike 99 percent of the old flat earth authors.  They used religion.   You fear what you don't understand, and you don't UNDERSTAND SCIENCE.  You are fucking pissing me off.  Not only are you saying everything I love is fake but all the chemistry I do is not actually working.  WELL this just in, It fucking does work.  You are just to fucking stupid to notice.  Put down you bible and your fucking hatred of the Jews and open you fucking eyes.  You may actually learn something.  Although the year isn't  314 so you probably won't.

?

Althalus

  • 4062
  • +0/-0
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2008, 08:18:39 PM »
You should change your personal text now that Bushido is gone.

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • +1/-1
  • Extra Racist
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2008, 08:27:34 PM »
Quote from: Jim
I'm guessing I'm too new to fully comprehend the greatness of sokarul.

Here's a glimpse of him at his finest:
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH HATING, UNEDUCATED, SCIENCE FEARING LITTLE BRAIN.  Science bends you the fuck over and give it to you up the ass.  You have jack fucking shit on any topic you can come up with.  All you do is blame everything on the Jews so its wrong.  Jesus was a Jew you fucking ignorant pieces of shit. And if fucking everyone is a Jew then it stand that Jewish people would have to kill another Jew. Get the fuck over it.
Einstein may be a Jew but he did not use that to come up with anything, unlike 99 percent of the old flat earth authors.  They used religion.   You fear what you don't understand, and you don't UNDERSTAND SCIENCE.  You are fucking pissing me off.  Not only are you saying everything I love is fake but all the chemistry I do is not actually working.  WELL this just in, It fucking does work.  You are just to fucking stupid to notice.  Put down you bible and your fucking hatred of the Jews and open you fucking eyes.  You may actually learn something.  Although the year isn't  314 so you probably won't.
lol
I remember that.  Funny thing is, its all true.  You don't know any science, which you admitted earlier today.  And you attack the jews and now Islam all the time. 
Should I quote where you said the elements are wind, earth, and fire?  I don't even have too, theres a thread right now where you claim the Phoenix is real.  That pretty much sums up your capacity.   
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • +1/-1
  • Extra Racist
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2008, 08:37:15 PM »
Because none of them are a giant fucking retarded like you. 
Same old sokarul.  I have missed you so!


BTW, posting in this manner will result in a ban.
I think its more funny that narcberry came back on the 8th. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

?

Loard Z

  • 4680
  • +0/-0
  • Insert witty intellectual phrase here...
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2008, 04:39:28 AM »
who the hell is sokarul?
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

*

divito the truthist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 6901
  • +0/-0
  • Relativist, Existentialist, Nihilist
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2008, 06:10:14 AM »
He was Gulliver's sidekick. Almost as equally as annoying as Midnight's sidekick.

An REer with nothing but an affinity for put-downs and other such nonsense towards the FET.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
Quote from: Fortuna
objectively good

?

Loard Z

  • 4680
  • +0/-0
  • Insert witty intellectual phrase here...
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2008, 06:12:05 AM »
who is midnights sidekick?
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

*

divito the truthist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 6901
  • +0/-0
  • Relativist, Existentialist, Nihilist
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2008, 06:22:18 AM »
Hara aka Daedalus.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
Quote from: Fortuna
objectively good

?

Loard Z

  • 4680
  • +0/-0
  • Insert witty intellectual phrase here...
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2008, 06:23:36 AM »
Ah, yes.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65234
  • +17/-49
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2008, 08:24:52 AM »
Yeah but Sokarul was also fucking funny at times, he had quite a few quotes in th Quote Of The Week thread
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • +1/-1
  • Extra Racist
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2008, 08:55:18 AM »
He was Gulliver's sidekick. Almost as equally as annoying as Midnight's sidekick.

An REer with nothing but an affinity for put-downs and other such nonsense towards the FET.
Sorry I actually have some education.

Z I am a chemistry major, physics minor.  Divito was scared of me.     

« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 09:09:40 AM by sokarul »
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65234
  • +17/-49
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2008, 08:59:27 AM »
You're a major domo  >:(
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

?

Jim

  • 255
  • +0/-0
  • What year did Jesus think it was?
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2008, 09:21:54 AM »
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH HATING, UNEDUCATED, SCIENCE FEARING LITTLE BRAIN.  Science bends you the fuck over and give it to you up the ass.  You have jack fucking shit on any topic you can come up with.  All you do is blame everything on the Jews so its wrong.  Jesus was a Jew you fucking ignorant pieces of shit. And if fucking everyone is a Jew then it stand that Jewish people would have to kill another Jew. Get the fuck over it.
Einstein may be a Jew but he did not use that to come up with anything, unlike 99 percent of the old flat earth authors.  They used religion.   You fear what you don't understand, and you don't UNDERSTAND SCIENCE.  You are fucking pissing me off.  Not only are you saying everything I love is fake but all the chemistry I do is not actually working.  WELL this just in, It fucking does work.  You are just to fucking stupid to notice.  Put down you bible and your fucking hatred of the Jews and open you fucking eyes.  You may actually learn something.  Although the year isn't  314 so you probably won't.

You're my hero.  Can I be your sidekick? 

*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65234
  • +17/-49
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Islam the Enemy of Flat Earth
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2008, 09:22:47 AM »
FUCK YOU AND YOUR JEWISH HATING, UNEDUCATED, SCIENCE FEARING LITTLE BRAIN.  Science bends you the fuck over and give it to you up the ass.  You have jack fucking shit on any topic you can come up with.  All you do is blame everything on the Jews so its wrong.  Jesus was a Jew you fucking ignorant pieces of shit. And if fucking everyone is a Jew then it stand that Jewish people would have to kill another Jew. Get the fuck over it.
Einstein may be a Jew but he did not use that to come up with anything, unlike 99 percent of the old flat earth authors.  They used religion.   You fear what you don't understand, and you don't UNDERSTAND SCIENCE.  You are fucking pissing me off.  Not only are you saying everything I love is fake but all the chemistry I do is not actually working.  WELL this just in, It fucking does work.  You are just to fucking stupid to notice.  Put down you bible and your fucking hatred of the Jews and open you fucking eyes.  You may actually learn something.  Although the year isn't  314 so you probably won't.

You're my hero.  Can I be your sidekick? 
He's your hero but I'm not?! I'm insulted!
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?