Debate: Tides

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Trekky0623

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Debate: Tides
« on: October 03, 2007, 06:42:57 PM »
What causes FE Tides?  As background info, here is the explanation of RE tides:


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Trekky0623

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2007, 07:09:51 PM »
Magnitude of height change during tides:


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Gulliver

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2007, 07:18:21 PM »
Experiment #0021 of The RE Primer documents the correlation between the diurnal tides and the Moon.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2007, 07:30:57 PM »
FE Tides


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Gulliver

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2007, 09:13:36 PM »
For those interested in the RE science behind the tides, please reference: mb-soft.

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Username

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2007, 04:33:15 AM »
There are two moons, one above the earth, and one underneath.  The gravity from these cause tides
If yu can't argue b;Doth ssidees, youc understand neither

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divito the truthist

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2007, 04:37:04 AM »
Is the steepness and elevation of the surface taken into account for the height of the tides?
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Trekky0623

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2007, 05:48:15 AM »
Well, it's the change, so it's like how much the water changes from low to high tide.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2007, 08:45:05 AM »
Well, it's the change, so it's like how much the water changes from low to high tide.

If the tides were truly caused by the moon, shouldn't we see the high tides trace a path upon the earth which the moon passes over?

Why does your image in the second post of this thread contradict the globular assumption?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 09:03:03 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Gulliver

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2007, 09:14:59 AM »
Well, it's the change, so it's like how much the water changes from low to high tide.

If the tides were truly caused by the moon, shouldn't we see the high tides trace a path upon the earth which the moon passes over?

Why does your image in the second post of this thread contradict the globular assumption?
Yes, and we do.
Who said it did?

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Trekky0623

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2007, 11:01:53 AM »
Quote
Why are there two high tides each day?
...
The correct explanation was given by Newton in 1687. The Moon's gravity pulls on the Earth and the water on it, but the force of the Moon's gravity varies across of the Earth. The pull is greater on the side facing the Moon, pulling the water there closer to the Moon, while the pull is weaker on the side away from the Moon, making the water there lag behind. This stretches out the Earth and the water on it, creating two bulges. Remember that both the Earth and the Moon are falling towards each other. The reason why they don't collide, is that they already have a motion perpendicular to the direction in which they are falling, so the falling only results in a change in that direction.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2007, 11:43:35 AM »
NEAP TIDES




SPRING TIDES

« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 11:45:20 AM by Trekky0623 »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2007, 11:45:10 AM »
Quote
Why are there two high tides each day?
...
The correct explanation was given by Newton in 1687. The Moon's gravity pulls on the Earth and the water on it, but the force of the Moon's gravity varies across of the Earth. The pull is greater on the side facing the Moon, pulling the water there closer to the Moon, while the pull is weaker on the side away from the Moon, making the water there lag behind. This stretches out the Earth and the water on it, creating two bulges. Remember that both the Earth and the Moon are falling towards each other. The reason why they don't collide, is that they already have a motion perpendicular to the direction in which they are falling, so the falling only results in a change in that direction.

That doesn't mean anything if your own data directly contradicts that high tides follow the path of the moon.

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Max Fagin

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2007, 11:56:56 AM »
That doesn't mean anything if your own data directly contradicts that high tides follow the path of the moon.
Why does your image in the second post of this thread contradict the globular assumption?

His chart shows the magnitude of the tidal change over a full tidal cycle, it's not a snapshot of the height of the tides at a single moment.

There is no way to tell from that graph if tides follow the moon (even though they demonstrably do.)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 12:00:09 PM by Max Fagin »
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Gazok

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2007, 12:29:53 PM »
All you FE'ers have screwed up, because you suddenly started saying that Gravity existed.

Jackasses.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2007, 12:38:11 PM »
All you FE'ers have screwed up, because you suddenly started saying that Gravity existed.

Read more.
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Gulliver

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2007, 03:13:03 PM »
There are two moons, one above the earth, and one underneath.  The gravity from these cause tides
Are you saying that there's a moon on the underneath side that exerts a negative gravitation to cause the second diurnal tide?

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Username

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2007, 11:32:25 AM »
No, it exerts a positive one, but it never passes under the other moon.
If yu can't argue b;Doth ssidees, youc understand neither

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Gulliver

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2007, 12:13:57 PM »
No, it exerts a positive one, but it never passes under the other moon.
How does a Moon under the oceans with a normal gravity push the ocean into a second tidal bulge?

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Username

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2007, 12:20:42 PM »
The moon below the earth acts the same as the RE when the moon is on the opposite side of the earth.  The 'normal' moon acts as the moon when it is above the body of water.

I don't completely understand tides, so does this seem theoretically possible?
If yu can't argue b;Doth ssidees, youc understand neither

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Gulliver

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2007, 12:39:23 PM »
The moon below the earth acts the same as the RE when the moon is on the opposite side of the earth.  The 'normal' moon acts as the moon when it is above the body of water.

I don't completely understand tides, so does this seem theoretically possible?
No. You're saying that the Moon pulls the FE toward it while the UA pushes it up at an acceleration of 1g.

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Gunznroses

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2007, 04:24:25 PM »
this is what ive been told....

~fuzzy flash back~

FE: gravity isnt real
Me: explain tides?
FE: Slight earthquakes in the ground causs flucuation in the tidal pattern

~Flazzy stuffs again~

 :o
please dont make me do it again  :'(
No problem solved in the least--and you only had to eliminate an entire continent to fail to accomplish it.

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The Communist

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2007, 07:32:16 AM »
Magnitude of height change during tides:



The moon cannot account for such variation in multiple places on RE.
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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2007, 07:34:24 AM »
What causes FE Tides?  As background info, here is the explanation of RE tides:


its very simple.
see, God for some reason or another likes tides. He makes the tides go in and out. How much sense does this make? about as much sense as saying the world was created last thursday
see: bertrand russel

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Max Fagin

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2007, 07:40:36 AM »
The moon cannot account for such variation in multiple places on RE.

You're right.  It can't, and it doesn't.

The amount of tidal variation a location will experience is due to the geography of the ocean floor, and the shape of the beach.  Which is why some places can have 10-meter tides, while other places can barely experience them.

The moon and sun are what cause the tides to occur in the first place, but the amount of tidal variation is more dependant on local effects.
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The Communist

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2007, 07:42:08 AM »
The moon cannot account for such variation in multiple places on RE.

You're right.  It can't, and it doesn't.

The amount of tidal variation a location will experience is due to the geography of the ocean floor, and the shape of the beach.  Which is why some places can have 10-meter tides, while other places can barely experience them.

The moon and sun are what cause the tides to occur in the first place, but the amount of tidal variation is more dependant on local effects (i.e. UA).


 ;D
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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2007, 07:43:09 AM »
The moon cannot account for such variation in multiple places on RE.

You're right.  It can't, and it doesn't.

The amount of tidal variation a location will experience is due to the geography of the ocean floor, and the shape of the beach.  Which is why some places can have 10-meter tides, while other places can barely experience them.

The moon and sun are what cause the tides to occur in the first place, but the amount of tidal variation is more dependant on local effects (i.e. UA).


 ;D
the tides are STILL caused by the moon's gravity.

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Username

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2007, 08:21:04 AM »
The moon below the earth acts the same as the RE when the moon is on the opposite side of the earth.  The 'normal' moon acts as the moon when it is above the body of water.

I don't completely understand tides, so does this seem theoretically possible?
No. You're saying that the Moon pulls the FE toward it while the UA pushes it up at an acceleration of 1g.
Right.  My bad.

However, in a system without the ua (for example, an infinite earth) this seems ok, then.
If yu can't argue b;Doth ssidees, youc understand neither

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Gulliver

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2007, 08:32:28 AM »
The moon below the earth acts the same as the RE when the moon is on the opposite side of the earth.  The 'normal' moon acts as the moon when it is above the body of water.

I don't completely understand tides, so does this seem theoretically possible?
No. You're saying that the Moon pulls the FE toward it while the UA pushes it up at an acceleration of 1g.
Right.  My bad.

However, in a system without the ua (for example, an infinite earth) this seems ok, then.
An infinite, flexible FE, I'd agree, though you'd still have some balancing to do.

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MouseWalker

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Re: Debate: Tides
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2018, 08:45:20 PM »
Tides are due to the change in the center of gravity on earth, there are three dominant things that must be looked at.
1. rotation of Earth
2. Earth orbit around the sun.
3. Moon's orbit around the earth.
This are the three major players.
They have an effect on the center of gravity on earth.
Drawing a straight lines from center to center of each object.
This involves the three body problem in orbital mechanics.

The common center of gravity of the moon and earth is some distance below the surface of Earth this is not a fixed location as the earth rotates the location stays in Direct line with the moon.
This point is the center of the orbit of the Moon, possibly the reason for the perturbation Earth moon orbits around the sun.
The oceans being liquid have the ability to move across the surface of the earth and would want to seek the center of gravity, hence creating the tides.
The suns distance from the earth, has a lesser effect, on the two bodies gravity Center but still has that influence on the tides.

You may say that the earth moon orbits each other, and that they orbit the sun, as a single gravitational object.
Getting off on a tangent I’ll quit.
The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.