A question

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Lord Wilmore

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A question
« on: April 15, 2006, 08:01:23 PM »
Ok, I'm not trying to pick through FE theory, so hear me out.


What I'm wondering is, do you believe the theory is true, or simply believe that no-one can prove it is not true?

In other words, is there more to this place than the simple notion that the Earth is not flat? Or am I off on a tangent here?
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

A question
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2006, 08:03:13 PM »
I'll give you a hint:

I doubt many people here believe in the Flat Earth.
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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EnragedPenguin

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A question
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2006, 08:06:49 PM »
I don't believe the earth is flat, no. I just started coming here because I enjoyed the debates, it makes have to question why I believe what I believe in the first place. In fact the majority of the people that post here regularly don't believe it is flat either.


That said, there a few people here who do believe the earth is flat, including the person who started this site (Daniel).
A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.

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Lord Wilmore

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A question
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2006, 08:08:09 PM »
Then, perhaps I think I understand. This site is more philosophical than than scientific, isn't it?
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

A question
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2006, 08:09:20 PM »
I hate to give you a non-answer...but that is up to you :)
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Lord Wilmore

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A question
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2006, 08:11:23 PM »
Quote from: "EnragedPenguin"
I don't believe the earth is flat, no. I just started coming here because I enjoyed the debates, it makes have to question why I believe what I believe in the first place. In fact the majority of the people that post here regularly don't believe it is flat either.


That said, there a few people here who do believe the earth is flat, including the person who started this site (Daniel).


Sorry to double post, but my respect for this place has now gone up a lot.

I understand now that you're saying, essentially, that the specific belief is irrelevent, only that all beliefs, even the most basic, can be contradicted if we question the basic 'principles' enough.

Cool.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Unimportant

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A question
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2006, 08:11:51 PM »
It's philosophical in that you should question why you believe what you believe, but most of the science is as "real" as anything you'll see in class. With the exception of things like dark matter, which are only slightly more nonsensical than gravity.

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EnragedPenguin

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A question
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2006, 08:13:09 PM »
Quote from: "NEEMAN"
Then, perhaps I think I understand. This site is more philosophical than than scientific, isn't it?


Well nearly all of the debates here are scientific, what I mean by saying it makes me have to question why I believe what I believe is that before I came here I had no idea why I believed the earth was round, the only reason I thought it was is because that's what I'd always been told.
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Unimportant

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A question
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2006, 08:14:16 PM »
And yeah, I think you've got it. The fact is that I'm positive the earth is round, but at the same time I realize there is absolutely no way for me to "prove" it to someone who thinks it's flat.

If there was "proof" that you or I could offer, this site wouldn't exist.

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Lord Wilmore

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A question
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2006, 08:22:53 PM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
And yeah, I think you've got it. The fact is that I'm positive the earth is round, but at the same time I realize there is absolutely no way for me to "prove" it to someone who thinks it's flat.

If there was "proof" that you or I could offer, this site wouldn't exist.


I understand now. I've really been here before; you can question everything if you go far enough.

But you guys disguise it very well. Is that deliberate?
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Unimportant

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A question
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2006, 08:40:31 PM »
I'm sure it's different for everyone, but here's how I see it; If you're not observant enough to pick up the underlying theme - that is, the mental exercise, whatever shape you believe the earth to be - then you probably wouldn't be able to effectively argue "the other side" anyways. If someone comes in feeling superior, thinks I'm an idiot because I'm a "true believer", and leaves, then I don't think of it as much of a loss.

Then again I've been registered for a day. *shrug*

A question
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2006, 09:30:23 PM »
Quote from: "NEEMAN"
Quote from: "Unimportant"
And yeah, I think you've got it. The fact is that I'm positive the earth is round, but at the same time I realize there is absolutely no way for me to "prove" it to someone who thinks it's flat.

If there was "proof" that you or I could offer, this site wouldn't exist.


I understand now. I've really been here before; you can question everything if you go far enough.

But you guys disguise it very well. Is that deliberate?


I would want someone to figure it out before I gave any indication.  Telling someone outright only hurts the learning process :)

I went through the same thing for awhile that you did, only I did not go public with it.
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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joffenz

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A question
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2006, 01:51:35 AM »
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
I would want someone to figure it out before I gave any indication.  Telling someone outright only hurts the learning process :)

I went through the same thing for awhile that you did, only I did not go public with it.


Ages ago it used to be a completely serious RE vs FE debate, but the FE's ended up leaving.

Quote from: "Unimportant"
With the exception of things like dark matter, which are only slightly more nonsensical than gravity.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

Read! Einstein's cosmological constant is not nonsense!

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Chaltier

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A question
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2006, 02:33:54 AM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
Ages ago it used to be a completely serious RE vs FE debate, but the FE's ended up leaving.


Can't very well blame them, can you? At least 75% of the posts on this board are anti-FE flames.

I'm probably the only one who actually posts in anyone else's threads, and I'm starting to see why the others don't.

Order of the day for FEers:

[REer starts thread by asking question]

[FEer responds to said question]

[REer flames FEer for daring to answer his "I've got them now!" question]

Honestly, I think one board reserved for FE believers (and mods) would be a good idea. Intelligent replies from people such as Erasmus (or any of the mods) are one thing, but I can think of a good number of things I'd like to discuss with other FEers without the incessant RE flaming that most certainly would invade any such discussion.

--Chal

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joffenz

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A question
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2006, 04:00:22 AM »
Quote from: "Chaltier"
Can't very well blame them, can you? At least 75% of the posts on this board are anti-FE flames.


We try to cut down on flames but we can't really read every post. That said, modertors now lock any thread which re-asks questions in the FAQ, which should cut down on flames.

Quote from: "Chaltier"

Honestly, I think one board reserved for FE believers (and mods) would be a good idea. Intelligent replies from people such as Erasmus (or any of the mods) are one thing, but I can think of a good number of things I'd like to discuss with other FEers without the incessant RE flaming that most certainly would invade any such discussion.


A good suggestion, but it should probably be posted here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=40

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Unimportant

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A question
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2006, 09:57:03 AM »
I'd hate to think I'd miss out on a discussion with a dedicated FE'er just because 90% of new members can't approach things with anything near an open mind.

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Chaltier

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A question
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2006, 10:31:58 AM »
Quote from: "cheesejoff"
We try to cut down on flames but we can't really read every post. That said, modertors now lock any thread which re-asks questions in the FAQ, which should cut down on flames.


I know, I wasn't directing that toward you guys. You do a fine job.

Quote from: "cheesejoff"
A good suggestion, but it should probably be posted here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=40


Will do, thanks! ^^

Quote from: "Unimportant"
I'd hate to think I'd miss out on a discussion with a dedicated FE'er just because 90% of new members can't approach things with anything near an open mind.


Aye, there must be a good way to weed out the flamers so we can still allow folks such as yourself or Knight into the discussions. I'll address that in the suggestions thread.


--Chal

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6strings

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A question
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2006, 10:43:25 AM »
Not sure if this belongs in the Suggestions thread, but it pertains to Chal's idea of:
Quote
there must be a good way to weed out the flamers so we can still allow folks such as yourself or Knight into the discussions. I'll address that in the suggestions thread.

We could, hypothetically, install a "Karma" system, which only mods and admins have the power to modify, to either +1, or -1, then have a board that  is only visible to those with +1 karmas.  That way the mods could easily act as bouncers to the board.

Just a suggestion :wink:

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Lord Wilmore

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A question
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2006, 10:51:49 AM »
There is a reason for the sudden influx of flamers, and it will dissappear shortly. Someone on a videogame forum (explains a lot, doesn't it?) that I frequent found this site, and posted a link to it. This is also how I got here. Except I am now a convert.

Eventually the thread in the forum will dissappear, and people will forget about it.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Unimportant

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A question
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2006, 10:54:08 AM »
I found it the same way, actually. It went something like "THESE PEOPLE ARE SO DUMB LOOK LOL"; aybe we're from the same site.

I came just to laugh at the stupidity, then I realized it was actually quite interesting.

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Lord Wilmore

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A question
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2006, 10:57:16 AM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
It went something like "THESE PEOPLE ARE SO DUMB LOOK LOL"


Ours was the peerless "Hahaha oh wow".
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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EnragedPenguin

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A question
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2006, 11:18:55 AM »
Quote from: "NEEMAN"
There is a reason for the sudden influx of flamers, and it will dissappear shortly. Someone on a videogame forum (explains a lot, doesn't it?) that I frequent found this site, and posted a link to it.


Yeah, that's usually the cause when we have a sudden infulx of new members, it's either that or a kid will see it and then tell all his friends at school.
A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.

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Taurondir

Re: A question
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2009, 08:10:05 AM »
I am really glad Ive started pouring over really old forum entries. Finding ones such as this ones that have people actually discussing that the site was started to get people thinking and discussing ideas was the reason I had originally come here as a new member.

I am sad to say that recently, I keep seeing more and more statements that seem to be aimed at just overwhelming people with math that would take them a month to sift through, or statements they cant disprove without spending considerable time/effort/money - which the person telling them to do knows well the other guy does not have (like just buying a 400mw green laser to fire over a lake cause they go 20 miles to sat prove earth curvature), or just take a flight to Antartica

http://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/

Which after which everyone screams "conspiracy! and brainwashing on the plane!", rather then say, trying to defend the FE math.

People talking in this thread seem to have their mind in the right place. I hope TFES site goes back on track.

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Username

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Re: A question
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2009, 01:00:42 AM »
Ok, I'm not trying to pick through FE theory, so hear me out.


What I'm wondering is, do you believe the theory is true, or simply believe that no-one can prove it is not true?

In other words, is there more to this place than the simple notion that the Earth is not flat? Or am I off on a tangent here?

The Earth Is Flat.  Most people here however, as you know, argue for other reason like the one you state.
if you can' argue both sides, you understand neither

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Ogrrr

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Re: A question
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2009, 04:58:57 AM »
Taurondir, thank you for bringing this thread to the surface. And I'm sorry to necropost. This was the reason I joined in, and the reason I believed this site to be here in the first place. To get people to question fixed beliefs. This is something I believe more people, and especially new people to the site, should read. Simply to get rid of alot of the "haHA! take a look at this argument! I'm new, but I got PROOF!" threads that I see around today.

But hell, I created my account today. So what do I know? Sorry to necropost.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A question
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2009, 12:38:51 PM »
I'm sure it's different for everyone, but here's how I see it; If you're not observant enough to pick up the underlying theme - that is, the mental exercise, whatever shape you believe the earth to be - then you probably wouldn't be able to effectively argue "the other side" anyways. If someone comes in feeling superior, thinks I'm an idiot because I'm a "true believer", and leaves, then I don't think of it as much of a loss.

QFT


Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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DunkMe

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Re: A question
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2009, 08:16:50 AM »
Taurondir, thank you for bringing this thread to the surface. And I'm sorry to necropost. This was the reason I joined in, and the reason I believed this site to be here in the first place. To get people to question fixed beliefs. This is something I believe more people, and especially new people to the site, should read. Simply to get rid of alot of the "haHA! take a look at this argument! I'm new, but I got PROOF!" threads that I see around today.


I wish I'd read it first, certainly. It's a great idea to challenge people to question beliefs. But it's done very dishonestly under the guise of sincerity by many who falsely purport to believe in a Flat Earth. As a newbie here, it was clear almost immediately that many people were not being remotely intellectually honest but rather simply playing with those who initially took the site seriously. Dishonest debate sucks when only one person knows he doesn't actually believe what he's arguing for. People who do it and feel good about it could have a great career in politics.

What attracted me to this site was the notion that yet another well funded government lie and coverup might exist, among so many others. The American government was in on the Oklahoma City bombing, the first World Trade center bombing, 9/11 and more, so I would not put anything past the U.S. government. But having a bunch of liars pretending to believe something they don't believe just to toy with people who are trying to be serious for having taken the site at face value (a.k.a. believing a host of lies passed off as the truth) is clearly deeply disturbing to many new people -- with good reason.

In other words, the flaming by newbies should be expected and in some ways seems to be intentionally created and harvested for amusement value alone.

But to each his own.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A question
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2009, 12:51:59 PM »
I wish I'd read it first, certainly. It's a great idea to challenge people to question beliefs. But it's done very dishonestly under the guise of sincerity by many who falsely purport to believe in a Flat Earth.

But a number of people who post here do sincerely believe in a flat Earth.  As for the rest of us, well, how exactly are we supposed to "challenge people to question beliefs" if they aren't led to take the notion seriously in the first place?

Quote
Dishonest debate sucks when only one person knows he doesn't actually believe what he's arguing for.

I disagree.  I think a good debater convinces his opponents that he really believes what he's arguing.  Haven't you ever played Devil's Advocate in an argument just for the intellectual exercise of arguing for something with which you don't agree, or to try to understand things from the perspective of the other side?  Or are you one of those people for whom everything is black and white, and all that matters is what you are convinced is right?

Quote
People who do it and feel good about it could have a great career in politics.

Now that's just hitting below the belt!  >:(

Quote
What attracted me to this site was the notion that yet another well funded government lie and coverup might exist, among so many others. The American government was in on the Oklahoma City bombing, the first World Trade center bombing, 9/11 and more, so I would not put anything past the U.S. government.

Do you have any tangible evidence of these allegations or are you just parroting what you've heard others say?

Quote
But having a bunch of liars pretending to believe something they don't believe just to toy with people who are trying to be serious for having taken the site at face value (a.k.a. believing a host of lies passed off as the truth) is clearly deeply disturbing to many new people -- with good reason.

Nobody does it "just to toy with people".  For me and many others it's mostly about the intellectual stimulation provided by the debate.  Others, as I pointed out before, do honestly believe in a flat Earth.  You may not believe it but Tom Bishop is a genuine Flat Earth advocate, and there are several others.

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In other words, the flaming by newbies should be expected and in some ways seems to be intentionally created and harvested for amusement value alone.

It's an amusing side effect of the forums, to be sure, but to suggest that it's in any way intentional seems like a stretch to me.  Judging from comments he's made in the past (some in areas of the forums to which most people don't have access) I can say pretty positively that it wasn't what Daniel had in mind when he created the site.  It's just something that was unavoidable because people tend to flame what they don't understand, particularly on the internet.

Quote
But to each his own.

You know how to leave if you don't like it.  Just hit that "X" at the top right of your browser.  If you wish to hang around and enjoy the debate that provides the rest of us with so much amusement, or even to continue on your crusade to show the truth to the noobs, feel free.  The dozens of times that I myself have "come clean" without any prior provocation to do so should demonstrate how little it matters to me.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 01:17:50 PM by Roundy the Truthinessist »
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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bennjerry

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Re: A question
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2009, 05:23:26 PM »
I wish I'd read it first, certainly. It's a great idea to challenge people to question beliefs. But it's done very dishonestly under the guise of sincerity by many who falsely purport to believe in a Flat Earth.

But a number of people who post here do sincerely believe in a flat Earth.

So who are those people?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A question
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2009, 05:44:38 PM »
I wish I'd read it first, certainly. It's a great idea to challenge people to question beliefs. But it's done very dishonestly under the guise of sincerity by many who falsely purport to believe in a Flat Earth.

But a number of people who post here do sincerely believe in a flat Earth.

So who are those people?

Lurk a bit and find out for yourself.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?