Re-incarnation

I was just wondering what everyone's views are on re-incarnation.  There's one thing that's been bothering me of late.  How do we know we didn't exist previously? Like, say 100 years ago, I was a rail-road worker, who died and then got re-born. Or 200 years ago I was a pirate.  I think that if re-incarnation exists, it's working very well, in the way that we can't remember our previous lives.

Lets break that down point by point

I was just wondering what everyone's views are on re-incarnation.  There's one thing that's been bothering me of late.  How do we know we didn't exist previously?.

How do I know I'm not really a shapshifting turquoise ostritch with amneisia? Thats just as insightful a question and the answer is the same because there is no evidence for either of those things.

Like, say 100 years ago, I was a rail-road worker, who died and then got re-born. Or 200 years ago I was a pirate.

Uh 200 years ago is 1800's which is way past the Golden age of Piracy

I think that if re-incarnation exists, it's working very well, in the way that we can't remember our previous lives

WTF?!?!?!!? That doesn't make any sense at all

An enraged
Cinlef

the

Dionysios,
I realize that re-incarnation isn't part of my religion, but it's something that has caught my attention of lately, and just got me thinking.  I still remain skeptical about this topic, and as with all things, it could be as possible as anything.

I don't see how reincarnation is any less plausible than any other descriptions of the afterlife.

Your main objection seems to be that there's no way of knowing that reincarnation is taking place, because you never have any memories of your previous lives.  Well, some spiritual sects believe you actually do have access to these memories.  Maybe it's just that memories from previous lives are "filtered out" by the immediacy of your current life.  Maybe when you realize brahma, you will finally remember all of your lives (maybe when you get to heaven, you'll have a perspective on your own spirituality and and understanding of God that you never could have had as a mortal human).  Furthermore, surely the gods know about your past lives; they could reveal it to others via prophets, and it's plausible that shamans could be able to tell you about these lives (you're not going to say that you don't believe in prophecy, are you?)

So basically I don't see any serious epistemological objection to reincarnation that isn't an equally valid argument against heaven and hell.  The only people who ever went to heaven or hell came back to tell us about it were Jesus and Dante.  I'm sure Hinduism has its share of prophets who told the people all about reincarnation.  Also, it's not clear to me that most Christian sects take Dante's claims literally.

I think you guys are left with a perhaps more materialist and hence more primitive reflection of your own faiths.

As for reincarnation in Hinduism, Wikipedia claims it has been around for at least two thousand years, possibly up to three thousand years.

-Erasmus

the

I feel incumbent to point out that Dante's Comedy (the word Divine was added later, it was called the commedy by Dante as it began sadly and ended happily as opposed to a  tradgedy which is the opposite, this is irrelevant I know) is a work of poetry and is thus not supposed to be a literal roadmap to the afterlife (lin the sense of say the Egyptian book of the Dead). It's athe allegorical story of the salvation of one man. It's allegorical and contains METAPHORS. Dante himself in some of his works of liteary theory talked about works haivng many (I believe 4) levels literal allegorical metaphorical and theological .  It's unjust to believe Dante really thought this happened to him, it's a story he wrote to make several points..His work should be judged in that light.
As for reincarnation I take issue with Tbouts duboius rational for disscussing it, it seemed to make no sense.
An annoyed
Cinlef

Dionysios, with all due respect, attacking reincarnation for lacking evidence while believing in the existence of a supreme being seems at best whimsical, and at worst contradictory.

the

logic,
  No offense, but your comment is the most illogical thing I have ever read in my life.

But not so illogical that you'd be willing to actual *explain* the accusation?

the

Dionysios I am totally lost as to why that last post is relevant to the topic of re-incarnation.
A truly puzzled
Cinlef

Reincarnation is a belief as old as the bible, if not older.  Of the major religions active on this planet reincarnation still forms a part of many peoples beliefs.  This is an unverified chart.[/code]

If this is the case do we find ourselves in any more of a position to question these beliefs than we need to question our own.  On many levels the idea of reincarnation appeals since it offers the believer the chance to right wrongs or perhaps to attone for sins.  Very unproveable if that is what was being asked.  However the concept of Buddhist reincarnation and the wheel of life ( and the eternity of the universe ) does raise some questions about our individual passage through life.  Believing in this cycle means that everyuone you meet may have been your brother/sister/father/mother/friend/lover/wife.......etc.  and as such each individual you meet should be treated in kind.  Now this to me is not a bad starting point for directing ones discourse with others. However, just like most christians find it difficult to live up to their deity, these are high demands and as such something to work towards (this is the proposition of most religions in their essence after all--to strive to achieve a certain state).  If classical reincarnation is true then the person that one may be flaming on the internet could indeed have been their mother in a previous life and if one was to believe this (even for a second) then they should dessist immediately.  This is of course one vision of reincarnation (the classical Buddhist one) so check the flavours for youself.  It's all on the net.  I just like this one since the concepts involved in the Buddhist ideal are indeed atheist.


Answers on a postcard

Umm about that unverified Chart. Nowhere in Catholic doctrine is reincarnation accepted. Which I think is contrary to that chart. Unless I've misunderstood the chart
An irate
Cinlef

The chart from http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html is just percentage of earth's population by religion: 33% of all people (living) are Christian, 21% Muslim, etc.  The point of the chart may be just to point out that while in the minority, people who believe in reincarnation are not a negligible part of the earth's population.

I think that's what he meant, anyway.

The Chinese version of reincarnation says one goes to Hell (Purgatory?) for 18 years so one can be properly punished for all earthly wrong-doings. At the end of the sentence, one drinks the soup from the Yellow Hag, which erases all previous memories, before one gets dropped off into a new-born.  This is the reason why in Chinese literature most men who were about to be killed/executed will shout something to the effect of, "In eighteen years there will be another goodfellow!"  The concept makes great stories.

There are many reincarnation stories where wrong-doing in a previous life comes back to haunt people, especially funny in a man who married a shrew of a woman who abuses him for no apparent reason. Neither of them know that in his previous live he was the person responsible for accidentally killing her previous lifeform as a mouse.  Luckily, a wandering Buddhist monk figures it out and absolves the subconscious vengence.

Thank you flying leaf.  You are of course perfectly right, though I did however think it was obvios why I included the diagram.  Reincarnation does form the foundation of many millions of peoples beliefs and as such should attract the same respect as our (now) more traditional westernised beliefs.

Cinlef, noone was suggesting that the concept of reincarnation was in any way affiliated to christianity(capital ommitted deliberately).  The fact remains that this belief does however predate christianity by many hundreds of years and at times has taken a bigger slice of that (unverified) diagramatical pie.  

If anyone can come up with a positivist method to test the concept of reincarnation I'm sure many people would be interested.

Answers on a postcard

logic,
  No offense, but your comment is the most illogical thing I have ever read in my life.

- Dionysios

Why? What evidence is there for God that has no other explanations?

Sorry mikolaj_koppernigk=cojon  I totally misunderstood the chart.
A contrite
Cinlef