Poll

Is the painting in the OP art?

Yes
2 (28.6%)
No
5 (71.4%)
Both
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Is this art?

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2022, 07:01:49 AM »


Yeah you see, I prefer the “working men” one.

As it’s actually been made rather than a concept and although I’m not a brutalist fan it has a naive charm, and the clothing is appropriate to the milieu, the top one looks like an Aryan wankfest done by an emotional cripple.
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Stash

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2022, 11:45:14 AM »
This is art.

You are by no means the arbiter as to what is art. Your personal preference is yours and yours alone. If you think big-eyed cartoons are art, good for you. Others may disagree. All of which is what makes us individuals with individual tastes.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2022, 12:14:24 PM »
What, you think the people who claim to be "art experts" are? If ever there was a point where you completely ignore what experts say, it's when it comes to art. De gustibus non est disputandum.

They panned Margaret Keane as "not art" when she drew actual pictures (they were cheesy big eyed people, but still) while at the time abstract crap was the vogue.

I am not the only arbiter of what is art. But I seem to have a better sense of it than people willing to pay billions for this. And better sense by far than the elitist punks that claim to "know" what is art. You can't know art. That's the point. It's taste.

However my taste is far better than yours.  ;D



IMHO, this "artist" is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

And you're just sore because I pointed out that bad art is socialism.

Quote
Yeah you see, I prefer the “working men” one.

As it’s actually been made rather than a concept and although I’m not a brutalist fan it has a naive charm, and the clothing is appropriate to the milieu...

Two people of uncertain gender holding a... I guess it's a bellows? Also, it's almost the level that I could probably have made it, and I have never done any metallurgy work at all.
Yes, top picture is an Aryan wankfest. It's SUPPOSED to be an Aryan wankfest. It's supposed to appeal to a buff man's love of his hot wife. And more importantly, it's what it's contrasting against, which is all depressing art. You know, stuff that deliberately shows a crushed human spirit.




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Stash

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2022, 12:29:53 PM »
But I seem to have a better sense of it than people willing to pay billions for this.

How have you determined this?

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2022, 01:57:12 PM »
But sometimes the human spirit is crushed and that is as worthy of depiction as some idealised superman fantasy, more so personally,as it shows the artist (if that's what he was depicting) has empathy with his subject.

As it is, the rough characterization of manual workers doesn't necessarily represent a crushed spirit.

And while I wouldn't buy it, the “workers” sculpture has more artistic value (to me) than your masturbatory fiction of apparently “a buff man's love of his hot wife”, which shows nothing of the sort, he isn't even looking at her. To me it shows vanity and appalling fashion sense.   
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 02:30:28 PM by Jura-Glenlivet II »
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JJA

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2022, 02:07:20 PM »
LOL

People who claim to know what is art and what isn't are the ones who don't understand it.

You're mistaking your opinions for reality... which is a common issue with you. ::)

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Slemon

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #66 on: November 25, 2022, 02:51:53 PM »
I suspected it was trying to say Trump supporters are dumb shits
God okay, this is something that fascinates me so I'm just going to ramble for a bit. I think that's an... interesting reading of the situation, particularly as the stereotype seems to often go the other way entirely - admirers of classic art are cultured, fans of scribbles are childish and pretentious.
The far-right's views on modern art are not unknown. There is a lot of drama that circulates, some just based on artistic circles often being unabashedly queer and unavoidably not exactly a Trump supporter's idea of healthy company, but a lot is the traditionalism, the 'Things were better in the Good Old Days.' So the grand classics are True Art, while more modern stuff that asks the question of what the heck art even is, that gets looked down upon.

Which is a take I find fascinating because it is so glaringly bizarre to me. Is there skill that goes into old paintings? Absolutely, but to a lay person like myself - and realistically, most of the people in this thread - it's skill that's indistinguishable from a halfway competent student of the same style. There's the fascinating world of art forgery, people that can so effectively mimic another artist's style that they create a piece that even fools some experts. All that keeps a forger from being as gifted as DaVinci is the lack of individual creativity, which isn't something you can see in the art in question. Equally, so much of what we see in the Mona Lisa, for example, is thoroughly counter to its intent - the painting was a commission for someone that knew who on earth the woman was, someone who had an emotional connection to her. It was a big pricy equivalent of keeping a photo of family on your desk. And I have no idea who she was, nor do I give a damn about her, and realistically speaking everyone here is the same. That piece of the art's original intent is completely lost to history - that which was the entire reason for its creation is gone. I think there's a genuine argument there that the Mona Lisa itself oughtn't be considered art in the same vein as many others because such a core piece of its original intent is lost to us.
Does it have value? Sure, but far from the same value DaVinci saw in it. Contrast something like the Birth of Venus, and that references a story many of us will know, and can understand.

But it doesn't come down to education, it comes down to taste - what matters to you with art? Is it the simple draw of seeing something pretty? Or is it getting some kind of emotional reaction? Should it be both? Can it be neither?

Would I hang the OP's art on my wall? Eh, probably not, but I also wouldn't really want to hang a lot of classics on my wall, so many are far too hollow for my tastes.
But the very fact you can ask the question 'Is this art?' I feel is the whole point. If you romanticise the past and glorify ancestors and tradition, if you have some notion of a Golden Age, where Men were Real Men, then the aesthetic of the classics will appeal to you more. That seems to be the whole far right/art topic that I expect your article was acknowledging.
But where I stand is, well, there probably wouldn't have been this long a thread in a discussion about Rembrandt. That's gotta count for something.
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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2022, 10:45:51 AM »
LOL

People who claim to know what is art and what isn't are the ones who don't understand it.

You're mistaking your opinions for reality... which is a common issue with you. ::)

You talkin to me JJ, you talkin to me?
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2022, 11:10:11 AM »
Value is subjective. So is what one considered 'art'

My kid draws a picture of a car. To me and him, it has sentimental value. He spent time and care on it and it's unique and his. It's a work of art for him

To anyone else, it's a scribble and they would have no care trashing it.

An elephant adds paint to a canvas and it's impressive because it's an elephant doing it. Art


Museum pays artist $84000 and they get a blank canvas titled 'take money and run'. NOW THAT'S ART!
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/danish-artist-takes-museums-cash-for-blank-canvasses-titled-take-the-money-and-run-180978794/

At the end of the day. What is art, what has value, is subjective. Anything can be art to someone

Except for those ladies who paint using menstrual blood. That's just gross

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JJA

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2022, 01:30:11 PM »
LOL

People who claim to know what is art and what isn't are the ones who don't understand it.

You're mistaking your opinions for reality... which is a common issue with you. ::)

You talkin to me JJ, you talkin to me?

I aint sayin nuttin.  I'm no snitch.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2022, 11:41:24 PM »
I suspected it was trying to say Trump supporters are dumb shits
God okay, this is something that fascinates me so I'm just going to ramble for a bit. I think that's an... interesting reading of the situation, particularly as the stereotype seems to often go the other way entirely - admirers of classic art are cultured, fans of scribbles are childish and pretentious.
The far-right's views on modern art are not unknown. There is a lot of drama that circulates, some just based on artistic circles often being unabashedly queer and unavoidably not exactly a Trump supporter's idea of healthy company, but a lot is the traditionalism, the 'Things were better in the Good Old Days.' So the grand classics are True Art, while more modern stuff that asks the question of what the heck art even is, that gets looked down upon.

Which is a take I find fascinating because it is so glaringly bizarre to me. Is there skill that goes into old paintings? Absolutely, but to a lay person like myself - and realistically, most of the people in this thread - it's skill that's indistinguishable from a halfway competent student of the same style. There's the fascinating world of art forgery, people that can so effectively mimic another artist's style that they create a piece that even fools some experts. All that keeps a forger from being as gifted as DaVinci is the lack of individual creativity, which isn't something you can see in the art in question. Equally, so much of what we see in the Mona Lisa, for example, is thoroughly counter to its intent - the painting was a commission for someone that knew who on earth the woman was, someone who had an emotional connection to her. It was a big pricy equivalent of keeping a photo of family on your desk. And I have no idea who she was, nor do I give a damn about her, and realistically speaking everyone here is the same. That piece of the art's original intent is completely lost to history - that which was the entire reason for its creation is gone. I think there's a genuine argument there that the Mona Lisa itself oughtn't be considered art in the same vein as many others because such a core piece of its original intent is lost to us.
Does it have value? Sure, but far from the same value DaVinci saw in it. Contrast something like the Birth of Venus, and that references a story many of us will know, and can understand.

But it doesn't come down to education, it comes down to taste - what matters to you with art? Is it the simple draw of seeing something pretty? Or is it getting some kind of emotional reaction? Should it be both? Can it be neither?

Would I hang the OP's art on my wall? Eh, probably not, but I also wouldn't really want to hang a lot of classics on my wall, so many are far too hollow for my tastes.
But the very fact you can ask the question 'Is this art?' I feel is the whole point. If you romanticise the past and glorify ancestors and tradition, if you have some notion of a Golden Age, where Men were Real Men, then the aesthetic of the classics will appeal to you more. That seems to be the whole far right/art topic that I expect your article was acknowledging.
But where I stand is, well, there probably wouldn't have been this long a thread in a discussion about Rembrandt. That's gotta count for something.

It's not a "things were better long ago". There is legit good abstract, and there is a child's picture. An elephant can get away with a child's picture. A child can get away with a child's picture. But for grown adults, a splotch of paint or a scribble is unacceptable. Conservatives believe in honest quality. If you run a grocery store, your produce is not spoiled or weird quality, you have meat and fish and dairy, and there are reasonable trends in shelving and pricing. There are halal, kosher, and Asian variants of this theme. All of these are technically grocery stores.
I wouldn't consider a vegan grocery to be a real grocery as some of its "meat, fish, or dairy" isn't real food. But technically it applies. Then there is a imperfect foods store, which sells stuff like straight bananas or odd carrots. Still mostly a grocery store.

Would you call it a grocery store when like Aldi they don't have real shelving and make you chain up a shopping cart and bag things yourself? I don't. I call Aldi and Lidl woke Swedish crap. But my own parents are taken in by this garbage. Likewise a grocery store that sells vouchers for other stores is hilariously not a grocery store.

Conservatives respect effort. Liberals respect slapped together fakery since their constituents are liars and crooks. Poorly made brutalist sculptures. Minimalist crap, where the "artist" presents undone art.



Despite being scribbled, this is art. But much of what is called art is actually scribbles.



This abstract is also art, though I find it akin to vegan or imperfect grocery. I am also play with surreal or psychedelic art.

Whenever I make stick figures of people for parabola pictures, this is not art. It's a diagram or a drawing.  Art represents quality, aesthetic value, and emotion. Art is the result of effort. To call something that is made through slacking "art" is an offense against real art.



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Stash

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2022, 11:48:23 AM »
To call something that is made through slacking "art" is an offense against real art.

When did you become the defining arbiter of taste for all of humanity?

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JJA

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Re: Is this art?
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2022, 08:55:25 AM »
Conservatives respect effort. Liberals respect slapped together fakery since their constituents are liars and crooks.

LOL  ;D

Thanks for making my day brighter, always a pleasure to get a good chuckle going.

Your misunderstanding of art is as flawed as your ignorance of politics, history and the shape of the planet.