1

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Convince me the earth is flat.

« on: January 22, 2013, 11:09:14 PM »

Let's have a little fun. I believe RET is the correct theory, convince me otherwise. Go.

I don't think that's possible.  You have to allow it to happen yourself by opening your mind to the possibility.   I used to be a round earther, so I understand how intensely it's driven into our brains from childhood.  it's a very difficult thing to overcome. 

I didn't become a flat-earther by reading compelling arguments or posted evidence here.  Like you, and many other newbies, when I first found this site, I laughed at it.  I couldn't believe anyone could be so ignorant as to believe the earth was flat.  Then I came back.  And I came back again.  Each time I found myself oddly fascinated.  I never posted, I only lurked, but I kept coming back, and each time I got a little closer to being able to make the leap.

The change happened gradually, and wasn't an easy process.  I was convinced the way most of us were, by finally allowing myself to forget all the things I'd been taught, or learned from books, and everything I thought I knew, and allow observation to teach me anew.  This applies to many things.  The shape of the earth is simply the most fundamental of the observations.

Observation? I can only see observation that contradict with each other. Those observation made by FE is more like gut feeling.

So far there is no FE model that are align with our daily experience.

2

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Spherical earth!

« on: January 22, 2013, 11:02:14 PM »

Hello Everyone..
I try to make it a Point to read through both sides of a debate to get the best angle of the Subject.
and to form my own Opinions.

As i'm A strong believer in a Spherical earth I cant not fathom that people could believe other wise.
That said i respect peoples Pov's but i think its Against  the scientific method not to get to the truth.

SO here's what i believe and What i think Is true and Why.

• The earth is a Sphere No a perfect sphere but a sphere..
  
• The Sun Rises on The horizon. and can be seen later the closer you are to the ground, and the reverse is true.
  you can see the sun set 2 times if you get higher.. 
• Satellites are in orbit around the earth. Some to small to see, but ISS ( International Space station) can be seen with binoculars. from earth.
• The sun is A sphere and about 1,392,684 km In diameter..
  And the mass of (about 2×1030 kilograms, 330,000 times that of Earth) fits the E= MC^2 Calculation and the life span of the sun and the approximate 4.57 billion years it has burned.
• We have been to the moon.. there are man made retro reflectors on the moon.. that is used to reflect laser to calculate the distance to the moon about 384,400 km (238,900 mi).
  Due to the elliptical orbit this distance change..
• GPS uses Einsteins Theory of relativity to calculate positions on earth from geo stationary satelites.

Im interested i engaging in a debate to learn things...

Yours truly TheSphereWorld

PS.. sorry my English is bad im from denmark..

Yes. Everyone can take a picture of the ISS with their own telescope.

http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/seeing-the-international-space-station-from-earth-20090326/

3

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Round the world flights

« on: December 18, 2012, 08:15:13 PM »

well maby moon shrimps fly the planes

but more seriously yes you have a very good point. one of many that round earth deniers cant explain. no evidence they give or models they describe explain much more than that single point they are arguing and almost never work in another scenario or application. also no single flat earther believes in the same thing. some in an infinite earth, some in a disc world, some in moon shrimps (lol) to name a very few of the many examples. you can never get a straight answer just smoke and mirrors.

That is very true. I don't see a single theory that can explain more than one scenario.

This time they throw out the map with North Pole as the centre to explain something. Next time, they use the map with south pole as a continent to explain something else. There is no consistency at all.

Personally, I really appreciate a flat earth theory that can explain at least a few common things (e.g. seasons, flight time, eclipse)

4

Flat Earth Debate / North Korea 'satellite' launch

« on: December 18, 2012, 08:08:07 PM »

North Korea considered the US as the evil imperialist and always ready to rage the war with the South.

I'm sure the North Korean knew the earth is flat since they have the tech to launch rocket to very high altitude. Why wouldn't they reveal such conspiracy of the US imperialist? Instead, they choose to launch their own satellite.

5

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Small scale ship disappearing experiment

« on: September 28, 2012, 12:20:28 AM »

the floor will become an issue at this level as its hard to find a perfectly flat floor.

whats your opinion on scaling it down? is this a valid experiment?

Well, you can use a horizontally placed laser to measure each marking. 

Any large suspension bridge will be flat enough to carry out any such experiment.

6

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Small scale ship disappearing experiment

« on: September 28, 2012, 12:15:00 AM »

Oops, I got it now.  I misunderstood what you meant.

In that case, using a long floor to simulate a flat earth, I wish anybody good luck in getting something to 'sink below the horizon'.

Also, in before TB comes along stating that perspective effect only works at 1:1 scale.

Yes, that is what i mean. Any 'sink below the horizon' experiement using long flat floor?

If someone said it only works at 1:1 scale, then please explain why it works at small scale for curved floor.

7

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Small scale ship disappearing experiment

« on: September 26, 2012, 11:10:28 PM »

if you find a large flat area of about 300m you can set this up with a camera at about 12 cm off the floor and then place the object at 50-100-150~m. take photos and observer your findings on this scaled experiment. i always wanted to try this but i could never be bothered.

Can you please describe further about how to observe and what is the expected result of the observation?

e.g. what kind of object to place? size of the object?

8

Flat Earth Debate / Small scale ship disappearing experiment

« on: September 26, 2012, 02:43:01 AM »

Recently I drove across a large cable-stayed bridge (~1.4 km) which is built as slightly arc shape. You can see the slight bend from these images (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonecutters_Bridge).

I observed the following:

-   If I drive slowly and let the car in front of me to leave me behind, I can clearly see the car in front disappearing from the bottom (wheel->body->antenna).
-   If I drive in a flat suspension bridge, I cannot see the car in front of me disappearing.

It shows clearly that having a round surface can be a reason for a ship disappears from the horizon. 
Does the FEers have any scale down (~1-2 km) experiment to show their optical illusion theory is true?

9

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: ONE question SERIOUS Question

« on: September 20, 2012, 12:01:08 AM »

As a world class pilot. I have flown in a straight line. LA to egypt to Guam To LA again. Going one direction one line. If the earth was flat why did i not vanish off into space. You are all truly ignorant and need to go clean your bathrooms with bleach and ammonia immediately.

The flat earth ppl will say that you are just circumnavigate around the flat earth under the Ice Wall model.

You have to fly through the south pole and then back to north pole to proof them the earth is round. But if you did that, you will be part of the global government consipiracy trying to hide the fact that the earth is flat.

10

Flat Earth General / Re: Please explain this!

« on: September 19, 2012, 11:14:29 PM »

This is all just a waste of time, I've read about 90 different threads in the 2 hours I've been a member and its impossible. They have a half-assed answer for every question backed by pseudo-science. They have heard it all and we are outnumbered at least 10 to 1. By "we" I mean of course people with eyes who have seen the curvature of the earth while in a plane or out at sea. You know, people who realize that if an ice wall at the end of the earth existed someone would have taken a picture via cell phone and sent it out before reaching their inevitable death at the hands of the ice giants who guard it. Us weird people who somehow cant believe that not a single scientist on the planet has come out and revealed this global (or should I say plane-al) conspiracy. We're just crackpot idiots who acknowledge the existence of satellites and gravity. Its just another collection of people who want to believe in something that goes against the grain. I mean I can't blame them. If you're going to be a conspiracy theorist this is undoubtedly the biggest conspiracy to theorize about. I'm not really sold on the amount of people that actually believe it though, Id say its only about 20% of them that actually thinks its true. The other 80% are just having fun pissing people off.

Their main argument is, the earth looks flat in daily life, therefore, it must be flat. So they have to create pseudo science to back their fact that the earth is flat.

11

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flight time between Australia and Argentina

« on: September 19, 2012, 12:01:35 AM »

There's a time-space continuum which is a function of mass. At the center of the earth, there is greater mass in your proximity, so time is faster. The further you move  from the center (up and to "the south"), the slower time travels. A person travelling in an airplane in the south will experience time passing quicker from his point of reference.

So when they land they have to turn their watches back?

You fail to understand the difference between measuring time and experiencing the flow of time.

If you care to share with me where I have failed and prove yourself the champion, please do.  Otherwise, I'm quite confident in my understanding of the theory of relativity and that someone experiencing time passing by quicker will actually be experiencing more time than his friends on the ground and thus, their watches will not be in sync.

I'm feeling that people try to avoid answering after there is a clear contradiction.

12

Flat Earth General / Re: Earth from space in YouTube videos

« on: September 16, 2012, 07:31:06 PM »

The sun is a spotlight in the sense that its light is limited to a circular area upon the earth. But this does not imply that the sun is a flat disk or only shines light in one direction. The sun is a sphere. It shines light in all directions around it. It's just that light cannot travel for tens of thousands of miles across the surface of the earth without being impeded by the thickness of the atmosphere. The sun is also very close to the earth. Natural perspective limits its visibility across great distances.

Read Earth Not a Globe.

You are not answering the following:

You can try to experiment it with a small light bulb in a dark room. Although the light fade out as the distance increased. There will NOT be a clear line between the light and the dark.

But the youtube videos always show a clear line of light and dark.

A spot light, or an enclosed street light as you mentioned can gives you the effect of a clear light/dark line. However, in that case, the light source is no longer a sphere that gives light in all direction.

Perhaps you can demostrate some experiment that illustrate a clear light/dark line without using a lampshade?

13

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: The Sun's "Orbit"

« on: September 16, 2012, 07:18:04 PM »

Flat earth maps are not meant to be taken literally. They are simply learning tools or visual aids. Until a cartargrapher, or more likely many of them, map the earth without a RE presupposition, we will never have an accurate map.

I assume your response means that you also agrees that so far there is not a flat earth model/map that matches our experience (e.g. flight time).

In that case, I would also assume that any Sun/Lunar orbits will come with a fault in the flat earth model/map.

But on the other hand, a round earth model/map can provides predictible and repeatable phenomenon happening on earth (e.g. the time of lunar eclipse). In that case, I would like to understand why would you still believe in a flat earth model?

14

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flight time between Australia and Argentina

« on: September 16, 2012, 07:05:09 PM »

The airports did not contradict me.

Incorrect.

Tom, you may not have noticed that this is not a non-stop flight.

The layover is only about an hour long.

Why is it incorrect? I don't see your point.

Did you search for direct flight?

I would like to see a response from Tom Bishop.

15

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flight time between Australia and Argentina

« on: September 13, 2012, 08:24:37 PM »

The airports did not contradict me.

Incorrect.

Tom, you may not have noticed that this is not a non-stop flight.

The layover is only about an hour long.

Why is it incorrect? I don't see your point.

Did you search for direct flight?

16

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: The Sun's "Orbit"

« on: September 13, 2012, 08:08:39 PM »

Can you please clarify your question? I've been here for a little while, and I love a good debate, but I haven't seen a model where the Earth is outside the circumference of the disk.

Which "other model" are you talking about in your last question?

He is talking about the model with antarctica as a stand alone continent.

Basically, it has a Sun that does a sort of figure eight motion around the disc. It isn't very thorough and I have no information beyond that. To be honest, I think it is a poorly thought out map model that has more than one major issues.

Is there a flat earth model/map that doesnt have major issue? I am really interested to see it.

17

Flat Earth General / Re: Earth from space in YouTube videos

« on: September 13, 2012, 07:58:45 PM »

Which model of the Sun is the correct model for flat earth?

If the Sun is a sphere, it will not act like a spot light that gives you a clear line of day and night.

You can try to experiment it with a small light bulb in a dark room. Although the light fade out as the distance increased. There will not be a clear line between the light and the dark.

A spot light, or an enclosed street light as you mentioned can gives you the effect of a clear light/dark line. However, in that case, the light source is no longer a sphere that gives light in all direction.

Therefore, you can't have the Sun as a sphere and the Sun acts as a spot light at the same time. Unless you are telling me someone covers the Sun with a lampshade.

I'm looking forward for a response to the above.

18

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flight time between Australia and Argentina

« on: September 13, 2012, 07:48:57 PM »

I fly SYD-HKG-LHR route very often. I can assure you that it is within 9 hrs for SYD-HKG and 12hrs for HKG-LHR.

Then why do the airports contradict you?

The airports did not contradict me. But the flat earth model you mentioned contradicts with my flight experience.

In the “south pole continent” model, SYD-HKG is longer than HKG-LHR, but my actual flight experience is the other way round.

19

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: The Sun's "Orbit"

« on: September 13, 2012, 06:37:07 PM »

How the Sun revolve around the flat earth?

For Ice Wall model, I saw picture in this forum saying that the Sun revolve the earth outside of the earth circumference.

What about "the other" model?

Can you please clarify your question? I've been here for a little while, and I love a good debate, but I haven't seen a model where the Earth is outside the circumference of the disk.

Which "other model" are you talking about in your last question?

This picture shows the sun revolve outside the circumference of the earth disk.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=53892.0#.UFKJvqAreSp

The "other model" I mean is the "south pole" as a separate continent.

20

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flight time between Australia and Argentina

« on: September 13, 2012, 06:32:30 PM »

Check out the other map. Sydney and Buenos Aries are a bit closer together:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Layout_of_the_Continents

In the "other map" (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/c/c2/Altmap.png)  you mentioned, the distance between Sydney and Hong Kong is much longer than the distance between Hong Kong to London.

Why would it only takes 8 hrs 45 mins from Sydney to Hong Kong while it takes 12 hours to get from Hong Kong to London?

If you search from Sydney to Hong Kong on Orbitz.com it says that it will take upwards of 13 hours.

I fly SYD-HKG-LHR route very often. I can assure you that it is within 9 hrs for SYD-HKG and 12hrs for HKG-LHR.

I'm sure there are tons of people can verify this.

21

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flight time between Australia and Argentina

« on: September 13, 2012, 06:25:08 PM »

Tom, you are not answering the question itself, I'm waiting for a response.

I don't support that map anymore. I find that the bi-polar model is a truer representation of the earth.

So there is no unified model for flat earth?

22

Flat Earth Q&A / The Sun's "Orbit"

« on: September 13, 2012, 12:47:26 AM »

How the Sun revolve around the flat earth?

For Ice Wall model, I saw picture in this forum saying that the Sun revolve the earth outside of the earth circumference.

What about "the other" model?

23

Flat Earth General / Re: Earth from space in YouTube videos

« on: September 13, 2012, 12:27:18 AM »

I always thought that's because the reflector shape, in flashlights it's generally circular, but with a square shaped one it should be a square, like the monitor, the form of the light projected by it is a square.

Okay, I'm not sure why you thought any of that was relevant.

In the flat earth model:
- the Sun is a sphere

Depends on the model.

- the Sun acts like a spot light

Pretty much.

However, look at your light bulb at home, the light scattered in all directions. Are you suggesting some other mechanism for the Sun to give light?

Are you suggesting a single street light (the Sun) can light an entire city (the Earth)?

Which model of the Sun is the correct model for flat earth?

If the Sun is a sphere, it will not act like a spot light that gives you a clear line of day and night.

You can try to experiment it with a small light bulb in a dark room. Although the light fade out as the distance increased. There will not be a clear line between the light and the dark.

A spot light, or an enclosed street light as you mentioned can gives you the effect of a clear light/dark line. However, in that case, the light source is no longer a sphere that gives light in all direction.

Therefore, you can't have the Sun as a sphere and the Sun acts as a spot light at the same time. Unless you are telling me someone covers the Sun with a lampshade.

24

Flat Earth General / Re: Earth from space in YouTube videos

« on: September 13, 2012, 12:03:34 AM »

You're looking at the spot of light the Sun shines upon the Earth's disc.

In the flat earth model:
- the Sun is a sphere
- the Sun acts like a spot light

However, look at your light bulb at home, the light scattered in all directions. Are you suggesting some other mechanism for the Sun to give light?

25

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flight time between Australia and Argentina

« on: September 12, 2012, 11:35:17 PM »

Check out the other map. Sydney and Buenos Aries are a bit closer together:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Layout_of_the_Continents

In the "other map" (http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/images/c/c2/Altmap.png)  you mentioned, the distance between Sydney and Hong Kong is much longer than the distance between Hong Kong to London.

Why would it only takes 8 hrs 45 mins from Sydney to Hong Kong while it takes 12 hours to get from Hong Kong to London?

26

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flight time between Australia and Argentina

« on: September 12, 2012, 08:57:29 PM »

According to the flat earth map, Sydney and Buenos Aires are basically opposite to each other. It will take at least 30 hours for such flight.

So, why does it only takes 14 hrs 25 mins for such flight? It is a schedule flight and you can travel between these two places 3 times a week.

Which flat map? There are two.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Flat_earth.jpg/220px-Flat_earth.jpg

27

Flat Earth Q&A / Flight time between Australia and Argentina

« on: September 12, 2012, 07:05:04 PM »

According to the flat earth map, Sydney and Buenos Aires are basically opposite to each other. It will take at least 30 hours for such flight.

So, why does it only takes 14 hrs 25 mins for such flight? It is a schedule flight and you can travel between these two places 3 times a week.