Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2017, 03:55:33 AM »
IF an airplane with active rotating blades described as going velocity  like a thrown stone, there is something wrong with this description.

For airplane, the higher velocity, the more distance accomplished over time will be.

This air velocity will exceed the increase of air resistance.
No, it will not.  The increase of air resistance is not linear.  You've been told this multiple times now and apparently haven't bothered to read.

Both airplane's slope n air resistance will go square, and both are not equal in size. Airplane will rule all the time against air resistance.
Airplane acceleration will always occur.
Still wrong.  Quite simply you have no idea what you're talking about.  Air resistance is well understood.  Engineers are constantly trying to find ways to reduce air resistance and redesigning vehicles and aircraft to be more aerodynamic.  They test their designs in wind tunnels.  If what you claim is true then all of that would be unnecessary.  You're still wrong.
You could start to read up on the subject here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_%28physics%29
but I doubt you will.

I'd prefer VALID raw data whatever it is, than text book stuff. But too bad nowadays both are extremely hard to find. (VALID ones)
To create an airplane go much faster, that only requires basic physics, with freedom.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 04:18:38 AM by Danang »
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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2017, 03:59:48 AM »
As to satellites, in RET, they have to follow not only earth spinning speed, but also sun's speed while circling the galaxy.

It can't be that way. Impossible.
Why?  when they are launched they already have those speeds as they had them when on Earth.  When are you proposing they lose them?

"The earth goes circling the sun."

This makes such journey become impossible.
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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2017, 04:05:35 AM »
This airplane's velocity will exceed the increase of air resistance.
It's not magic.
It can't magically overcome air resistance.

There is a nice simple test:
Hop on a plane and see if they still have their engines running. If they do, they can't magically overcome air resistance like you claim.

As to satellites, in RET, they have to follow not only earth spinning speed, but also sun's speed while circling the galaxy.

It can't be that way. Impossible.
And that is fine because they are in space where there is insignificant air resistance.

It's about the power. Increase the power, then super fast flight will manifest.
S=½at² is a magic formula for an aircraft.
And I use the word 'magic' with positive connotation.

PS. Don't use that formula for explaining gravity. That's horrible.
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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2017, 05:08:57 AM »
:-) of course it's not that simple.
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frenat

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2017, 05:12:06 AM »
As to satellites, in RET, they have to follow not only earth spinning speed, but also sun's speed while circling the galaxy.

It can't be that way. Impossible.
Why?  when they are launched they already have those speeds as they had them when on Earth.  When are you proposing they lose them?

"The earth goes circling the sun."

This makes such journey become impossible.
did you deliberately miss the point or are you just unable to read? Again, when they are launched, they are already moving with the Earth around the Sun and already have that velocity.  When are you proposing they lose that velocity making the journey impossible?

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frenat

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2017, 05:13:04 AM »
IF an airplane with active rotating blades described as going velocity  like a thrown stone, there is something wrong with this description.

For airplane, the higher velocity, the more distance accomplished over time will be.

This air velocity will exceed the increase of air resistance.
No, it will not.  The increase of air resistance is not linear.  You've been told this multiple times now and apparently haven't bothered to read.

Both airplane's slope n air resistance will go square, and both are not equal in size. Airplane will rule all the time against air resistance.
Airplane acceleration will always occur.
Still wrong.  Quite simply you have no idea what you're talking about.  Air resistance is well understood.  Engineers are constantly trying to find ways to reduce air resistance and redesigning vehicles and aircraft to be more aerodynamic.  They test their designs in wind tunnels.  If what you claim is true then all of that would be unnecessary.  You're still wrong.
You could start to read up on the subject here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_%28physics%29
but I doubt you will.

I'd prefer VALID raw data whatever it is, than text book stuff. But too bad nowadays both are extremely hard to find. (VALID ones)
To create an airplane go much faster, that only requires basic physics, with freedom.
You haven't shown you know basic physics.  You're still wrong.  Air friction is still a bigger problem.

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2017, 05:27:30 AM »
Why is so hard to increase the power, installing more propellers, fixing the design, even detaching the wings.
Complication often leads to nothing.
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frenat

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2017, 05:29:59 AM »
Why is so hard to increase the power, installing more propellers, fixing the design, even detaching the wings.
Complication often leads to nothing.
Again, air friction is not a linear relationship.  As you increase power it ends up taking more and more for the same speed increase which uses more and more fuel.  At some point it is no longer profitable.  Just because you are ignorant of friction and aerodynamics doesn't mean everyone else is.

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2017, 05:36:13 AM »
Why is so hard to increase the power, installing more propellers, fixing the design, even detaching the wings.
Complication often leads to nothing.
Again, air friction is not a linear relationship.  As you increase power it ends up taking more and more for the same speed increase which uses more and more fuel.  At some point it is no longer profitable.  Just because you are ignorant of friction and aerodynamics doesn't mean everyone else is.

Better ignorant about craps, afterwards building own ideas.
It worked all the time.

Okay, good bye.
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frenat

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2017, 06:03:48 AM »
Why is so hard to increase the power, installing more propellers, fixing the design, even detaching the wings.
Complication often leads to nothing.
Again, air friction is not a linear relationship.  As you increase power it ends up taking more and more for the same speed increase which uses more and more fuel.  At some point it is no longer profitable.  Just because you are ignorant of friction and aerodynamics doesn't mean everyone else is.

Better ignorant about craps, afterwards building own ideas.
It worked all the time.

Okay, good bye.
what does that even mean?  Is that English?  could we get a gibberish to English translator here please?

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2017, 06:13:31 AM »
That's Saturnish. Too bad Google Translate hasn't included Saturnish language.

Saturnian aircrafts are much much faster than earth's UFO by the way.
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frenat

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2017, 06:27:47 AM »
That's Saturnish. Too bad Google Translate hasn't included Saturnish language.

Saturnian aircrafts are much much faster than earth's UFO by the way.
so in other words, even you don't know what you wrote.

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2017, 06:49:19 AM »
I spoke and let anyone know or not know.
Coz I wouldn't unlock Saturnian technologies (anymore) to certain people, such as those who are from Air Bus, Boeing, NASA or such.

Actually it's okay to translate that Saturnish words for you as long as I am convinced that you ain't from any big aeroplane companies.

I have no idea yet "who you are"
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JackBlack

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2017, 12:39:56 PM »
I'd prefer VALID raw data whatever it is, than text book stuff. But too bad nowadays both are extremely hard to find. (VALID ones)
To create an airplane go much faster, that only requires basic physics, with freedom.
No, not with freedom, with shitloads of fuel making it far too inefficient.

"The earth goes circling the sun."

This makes such journey become impossible.
Why?
Are you capable of making a rational argument, or just dismissing things as impossible?

It's about the power. Increase the power, then super fast flight will manifest.
Yes, superfast, super expensive, and likely super dangerous flight.

Planes could easily be built to go faster, but they would be far less effecieint, i.e. it would require far more fuel to travel the same distance.
Concorde, a supersonic jet which could carry up to 128 passengers, consumes fuel at a rate of roughly 22000 l/h, while travelling at roughly Mach 2 (2179 km/h), or roughly 10 L per km.
Meanwhile, a 737-300, a subsonic turbofan craft which could carry up to 149 passengers, has a fuel capacity of 20100 L and a maximum range of 4176 km, which gives a rate of roughly 5 L per km.

Notice the difference?
So sure, you can go faster, but you need to burn a lot more fuel because you need to provide a lot more thrust to compensate for the increased drag.

Do you know one of the main reason the Concorde stopped being used?
It wasn't profitable.
A ticket on one would cost about the same as a first class ticket on a normal plane.
People preferred the cheaper price or better condition of the more efficient craft.

S=½at² is a magic formula for an aircraft.
No, that is the "magic" formula for an object in free fall, where it has a constant acceleration, i.e. no air resistance.
It does not apply to a plane, at all, as the acceleration of a plane is not constant.

Instead, assuming you use a constant thrust (which the planes don't, they throttle back at cruise for maximum economy), you have a formula akin to:
a=(T-kv2)/m
This means you no longer have a simple case of v=at, s=0.5*at2

PS. Don't use that formula for explaining gravity. That's horrible.
i.e. don't use it for what it actually works for.
Why not?
What makes it horrible?

Why is so hard to increase the power, installing more propellers, fixing the design, even detaching the wings.
It makes it less efficient.
Removing the wings would mean it can't fly.

Better ignorant about craps, afterwards building own ideas.
It worked all the time.
Sure, if it actually is crap.
It is far worse to be ignorant of reality and waste time and money following something which has already been shown to be crap.

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2017, 12:01:56 AM »
IF there is problems in achieving someting better, there are two options to do:

1. Make excuses n stick to the existing way.
2. Try to seek break through by free thinking n always questioning things implemented so far.

Now air resistance problem is over n then shifted into economy stuff.

What? Wait a minute... Hmm...
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JackBlack

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2017, 12:08:27 AM »
IF there is problems in achieving someting better, there are two options to do:

1. Make excuses n stick to the existing way.
2. Try to seek break through by free thinking n always questioning things implemented so far.

Now air resistance problem is over n then shifted into economy stuff.

What? Wait a minute... Hmm...
No, air resistance is the problem which leads to issues in economy.
Due to the large air resistance, to have the planes go significantly faster they will need to burn vastly more fuel and thus it will cost vastly more.

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2017, 12:34:32 AM »
Did Jack speak about submarine? Water resistance?

Air resistance is not the right terminology. 'Friction' may be a better terminology.
'Friction' is weaker than 'Resistance'.
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JackBlack

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2017, 02:03:48 AM »
Did Jack speak about submarine? Water resistance?

Air resistance is not the right terminology. 'Friction' may be a better terminology.
'Friction' is weaker than 'Resistance'.
No, I spoke about air resistance.
Air resistance is the correct terminology.
Yes it is partly a subset of friction, but as it is also moving the air around the craft it is more than that.

There is nothing wrong with air resistance as terminology as it is the air resisting motion through it.

But regardless of what you want to call it, the fact remains, it is this air resistance that causes the issue with economy;  thus air resistance is why the planes don't fly super fast.

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frenat

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2017, 05:16:42 AM »
IF there is problems in achieving someting better, there are two options to do:

1. Make excuses n stick to the existing way.
2. Try to seek break through by free thinking n always questioning things implemented so far.

Now air resistance problem is over n then shifted into economy stuff.

What? Wait a minute... Hmm...
Nobody shifted. Air resistance causes the problems with economy.  no excuses have been made.  You've been provided with facts but YOU chose not to listen.  Meanwhile you've presented nothing to back up your side.

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JackBlack

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2017, 01:44:57 PM »
Also, if you want to make it take less fuel, you either need a better engine with vastly superior economy; or an airframe design with a lot less air resistance, without compromising lift, so no taking off the wings; or a lot lighter aircraft so you can operate with less lift; or something which can get practically to space without being extremely dangerous, without following a ballistic trajectory (so no unpowered sections through space where you are in free fall), but then you need something to provide lift while in space and that might take more fuel.

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2017, 12:33:59 AM »
IF there is problems in achieving someting better, there are two options to do:

1. Make excuses n stick to the existing way.
2. Try to seek break through by free thinking n always questioning things implemented so far.

Now air resistance problem is over n then shifted into economy stuff.

What? Wait a minute... Hmm...
Nobody shifted. Air resistance causes the problems with economy.  no excuses have been made.  You've been provided with facts but YOU chose not to listen.  Meanwhile you've presented nothing to back up your side.

Scroll up.
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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2017, 12:35:43 AM »
Also, if you want to make it take less fuel, you either need a better engine with vastly superior economy; or an airframe design with a lot less air resistance, without compromising lift, so no taking off the wings; or a lot lighter aircraft so you can operate with less lift; or something which can get practically to space without being extremely dangerous, without following a ballistic trajectory (so no unpowered sections through space where you are in free fall), but then you need something to provide lift while in space and that might take more fuel.

'Fuel" will be archaic.
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JackBlack

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2017, 01:59:22 AM »
Scroll up.
Scrolling up wont help.

Air resistance is the cause of the economy issue.
Pointing out that yes it is physically possible to make planes fly faster, but will cost far more, doesn't magically mean air resistance is not a problem.

'Fuel" will be archaic.
And what are you planning on replacing it with?
Hopes and dreams?

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frenat

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2017, 05:05:49 AM »
IF there is problems in achieving someting better, there are two options to do:

1. Make excuses n stick to the existing way.
2. Try to seek break through by free thinking n always questioning things implemented so far.

Now air resistance problem is over n then shifted into economy stuff.

What? Wait a minute... Hmm...
Nobody shifted. Air resistance causes the problems with economy.  no excuses have been made.  You've been provided with facts but YOU chose not to listen.  Meanwhile you've presented nothing to back up your side.

Scroll up.
To see you fail again?  Saw it once, laughed, moved on.  Are you going to ever present any evidence for your nonsense theory?

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2017, 11:22:42 PM »
IF there is problems in achieving someting better, there are two options to do:

1. Make excuses n stick to the existing way.
2. Try to seek break through by free thinking n always questioning things implemented so far.

Now air resistance problem is over n then shifted into economy stuff.

What? Wait a minute... Hmm...
Nobody shifted. Air resistance causes the problems with economy.  no excuses have been made.  You've been provided with facts but YOU chose not to listen.  Meanwhile you've presented nothing to back up your side.

Scroll up.
To see you fail again?  Saw it once, laughed, moved on.  Are you going to ever present any evidence for your nonsense theory?

UA in aerodinamic is a break through for traditional theory.
An aeroplane flies not only due to wings. It's entire of underneath airplane that contribute for a lift. Bernoulli's principle is over.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 11:28:44 PM by Danang »
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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2017, 11:25:41 PM »
Scroll up.
Scrolling up wont help.

Air resistance is the cause of the economy issue.
Pointing out that yes it is physically possible to make planes fly faster, but will cost far more, doesn't magically mean air resistance is not a problem.

'Fuel" will be archaic.
And what are you planning on replacing it with?
Hopes and dreams?

We are talking about physics, not economy.

What will replace fuel, it is an easy stuff, but goverments ain't interested.
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JackBlack

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2017, 11:41:20 PM »
UA in aerodinamic is a break through for traditional theory.
No it isn't.
It is a complete load of unsubstantiated BS.

An aeroplane flies not only due to wings. It's entire of underneath airplane that contribute for a lift. Bernoulli's principle is over.
If that was the case, the planes would never have had wings in the first place and we would all be flying.

We are talking about physics, not economy.
No, we are talking about both.
The cost is the reason why planes do not fly faster, i.e. they fly at their current speed because flying faster would be much more expensive.
The cost is so high because of aerodynamics.
There are planes which fly much faster, but they burn through fuel a lot faster and cost a lot more to travel the same distance.

What will replace fuel, it is an easy stuff, but goverments ain't interested.
i.e. you have no idea what you could use to replace fuel, so you deflect and pretend the government is just hiding it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2017, 12:09:57 AM »
There's a very good reason why very few planes crash and why it's 99.9% safe at altitude for the plane.
It has nothing to do with just flying through so called thin air.

Anyone that's been on a jet plane will understand what's going on if they seriously think about it.
A little clue is in the very slight tilt of the plane. Anyone notice this?

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Danang

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2017, 01:41:30 AM »
There's a very good reason why very few planes crash and why it's 99.9% safe at altitude for the plane.
It has nothing to do with just flying through so called thin air.

Anyone that's been on a jet plane will understand what's going on if they seriously think about it.
A little clue is in the very slight tilt of the plane. Anyone notice this?

Is it "tilt up"?

The more velocity the more higher.
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JackBlack

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Re: Airplanes' Speed Could Be "Fake" :)
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2017, 02:36:45 AM »
There's a very good reason why very few planes crash and why it's 99.9% safe at altitude for the plane.
It has nothing to do with just flying through so called thin air.
No, it is primarily due to very little being up there, and you have 3 dimensions to avoid objects in.

Cars crash on the ground because of so many other cars and people and buildings and so on, and they are limited to primarily 2D to avoid obstacles.

Anyone that's been on a jet plane will understand what's going on if they seriously think about it.
In reality, or in your delusional fantasy world?

What does this have to do with the OP?