Light bends up, right?

And it does this because of the variation in atmospheric density with altitude, right?

So how come at sea level the atmospheric density is the same [assuming constant temperature and barometric pressure], and yet it still bends? (As you say it must for a horizon to appear)

All bendy light is going to do, is change the apparent position of the sun in the sky. As far as I am aware (I just came to this realisation) the horizon shouldn't be altered.

TO ALL: Remember, light does not need to be a light source. Everything you look at is either emitting or reflecting light. The horizon is a line where the sea/land reflecting light at you, and the sky reflecting light at you, meet. Do not confuse light sources, with anything that you look at.

Please answer me this, or correct me on what makes light bend. This realisation of mine could either debunk, or do nothing to your theory. It is in your hands.

And it does this because of the variation in atmospheric density with altitude, right?

No. The rest of your reasoning does not follow.

What makes it bend then? FAQ doesn't say and I can't see the other topic on it.

We don't know the physical mechanism behind it for sure, but it must be according to Fermat's Principle,

Wow, so you have no way of knowing why it acts like it does, except that it must do so in order for an horizon to appear?

Pretty convincing theory so far.

There mut be a conspiracy because it requires one for FET to work.
Light must bend because FET requires it to work.
There is a giant sky mirror because FET needs it.
There is an anti-moon because FET needs it to explain solar eclipses.

Wow, so you have no way of knowing why it acts like it does, except that it must do so in order for an horizon to appear?

Pretty convincing theory so far.

What is Dark Energy?

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 03, 2010, 12:05:51 AM

Wow, so you have no way of knowing why it acts like it does, except that it must do so in order for an horizon to appear?

Pretty convincing theory so far.

What is Dark Energy?

A plant nutrient additive.

have a look at these pictures I found they show bendy light




you can probably figure it out from these images good luck! 

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 03, 2010, 12:05:51 AM

Wow, so you have no way of knowing why it acts like it does, except that it must do so in order for an horizon to appear?

Pretty convincing theory so far.

What is Dark Energy?

I'm not exactly sure. But it is less important to know what dark energy is than it is to know how the horizon works.

Quote from: parsec on March 03, 2010, 07:34:28 AM

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 03, 2010, 12:05:51 AM

Wow, so you have no way of knowing why it acts like it does, except that it must do so in order for an horizon to appear?

Pretty convincing theory so far.

What is Dark Energy?

I'm not exactly sure.

Wow, so you are not sure what it is and yet it is said that it comprises 73% of the energy content of the whole Universe.

Quote from: parsec on March 03, 2010, 07:34:28 AM

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 03, 2010, 12:05:51 AM

Wow, so you have no way of knowing why it acts like it does, except that it must do so in order for an horizon to appear?

Pretty convincing theory so far.

What is Dark Energy?

I'm not exactly sure. But it is less important to know what dark energy is than it is to know how the horizon works.

What is the mechanism behind gravity then since gravity is surely relevant. Sure, we understand the effects and relationships of gravity but it is still unknown on a subatomic level what causes gravity.

have a look at these pictures I found they show bendy light


you can probably figure it out from these images good luck! 

Indeed you have, it's amazing what happens to light when it passes through heat waves.

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 03, 2010, 10:50:36 AM

Quote from: parsec on March 03, 2010, 07:34:28 AM

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 03, 2010, 12:05:51 AM

Wow, so you have no way of knowing why it acts like it does, except that it must do so in order for an horizon to appear?

Pretty convincing theory so far.

What is Dark Energy?

I'm not exactly sure.

Wow, so you are not sure what it is and yet it is said that it comprises 73% of the energy content of the whole Universe.

Continue to read rest of quoted post before 'acting a fool'

/thread

Presumeably dark energy only makes up 70% odd of the universe if its many millions of light years across. If its a short flight from one end to the other then I think we can assume we know so little about physics as to make speculation about dark matter and/or energy futile.

So how come at sea level the atmospheric density is the same

The same as what?

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 02, 2010, 08:36:52 PM

So how come at sea level the atmospheric density is the same

The same as what?

The same as itself, as opposed to variation in it's value in different areas.

The same as itself, as opposed to variation in it's value in different areas.

Tell me, how much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 07, 2010, 11:09:54 AM

The same as itself, as opposed to variation in it's value in different areas.

Tell me, how much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

Density, you fucking knob.

Atmospheric density is not constant world-wide.

Also: Note tides. Sea level isn't the same all over, but that's a different story.

Quote from: Parsifal on March 07, 2010, 02:22:24 PM

Tell me, how much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

Density, you fucking knob.

Atmospheric density is not constant world-wide.

Also: Note tides. Sea level isn't the same all over, but that's a different story.

This is not an answer to my question.

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 07, 2010, 04:04:14 PM

Quote from: Parsifal on March 07, 2010, 02:22:24 PM

Tell me, how much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

Density, you fucking knob.

Atmospheric density is not constant world-wide.

Also: Note tides. Sea level isn't the same all over, but that's a different story.

This is not an answer to my question.

Repeat the question in full please so as to not derail the thread as you normally would.

Repeat the question in full please so as to not derail the thread as you normally would.

How much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 07, 2010, 05:50:37 PM

Repeat the question in full please so as to not derail the thread as you normally would.

How much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

about 10 metres either side of MSL.
The 'level of the sea' is not always 'sea level'

How is this relevant?

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 07, 2010, 11:09:54 AM

The same as itself, as opposed to variation in it's value in different areas.

Tell me, how much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

The difference between high tide and low tide.

Quote from: Parsifal on March 07, 2010, 05:57:02 PM

How much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

about 10 metres either side of MSL.
The 'level of the sea' is not always 'sea level'

How is this relevant?

So you are saying that there is negligible variation in altitude at sea level, and you have also said that:

... [light bends] because of the variation in atmospheric density with altitude, right?

If there is negligible variation in altitude at sea level, and light bends due to variation in atmospheric density with altitude, then why is it relevant whether or not there is variation in atmospheric density at sea level?

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 07, 2010, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Parsifal on March 07, 2010, 05:57:02 PM

How much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

about 10 metres either side of MSL.
The 'level of the sea' is not always 'sea level'

How is this relevant?

So you are saying that there is negligible variation in altitude at sea level, and you have also said that:

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 02, 2010, 08:36:52 PM

... [light bends] because of the variation in atmospheric density with altitude, right?

If there is negligible variation in altitude at sea level, and light bends due to variation in atmospheric density with altitude, then why is it relevant whether or not there is variation in atmospheric density at sea level?

The variation in atmospheric density at sea level is not directly related to it's altitude. It is directly related to the barometric pressure and atmospheric temperature.

The 'density altitude' (altitude at which the atmospheric density is the same as if it were at sea level under normal conditions) can vary by a couple of thousand feet in a given place. Up to 5000 feet in extreme changing conditions. (meaning if you stayed at an altitude of 1000 ft, and waited for the change in pressure and altitude to change by a significant amount, the air around would act as if it were either air under normal conditions at -1000ft or even 3000 ft. Quite a big difference).

This means that if light bending was due to atmospheric density, on a given day, the sun could appear in a completely different place (by quite a lot, one would think) than it would on another day because light would either be bend a hell of a lot more, or a hell of a lot less. Bendy light due to atmospheric density is far too inconsistent with everyday observations.

Quote from: Parsifal on March 07, 2010, 10:45:13 PM

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 07, 2010, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Parsifal on March 07, 2010, 05:57:02 PM

How much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

about 10 metres either side of MSL.
The 'level of the sea' is not always 'sea level'

How is this relevant?

So you are saying that there is negligible variation in altitude at sea level, and you have also said that:

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 02, 2010, 08:36:52 PM

... [light bends] because of the variation in atmospheric density with altitude, right?

If there is negligible variation in altitude at sea level, and light bends due to variation in atmospheric density with altitude, then why is it relevant whether or not there is variation in atmospheric density at sea level?

The variation in atmospheric density at sea level is not directly related to it's altitude. It is directly related to the barometric pressure and atmospheric temperature.

The 'density altitude' (altitude at which the atmospheric density is the same as if it were at sea level under normal conditions) can vary by a couple of thousand feet in a given place. Up to 5000 feet in extreme changing conditions. (meaning if you stayed at an altitude of 1000 ft, and waited for the change in pressure and altitude to change by a significant amount, the air around would act as if it were either air under normal conditions at -1000ft or even 3000 ft. Quite a big difference).

This means that if light bending was due to atmospheric density, on a given day, the sun could appear in a completely different place (by quite a lot, one would think) than it would on another day because light would either be bend a hell of a lot more, or a hell of a lot less. Bendy light due to atmospheric density is far too inconsistent with everyday observations.

Exactly, and said better than i could although i've tried.

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 07, 2010, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Parsifal on March 07, 2010, 05:57:02 PM

How much variation in altitude is there at sea level?

about 10 metres either side of MSL.
The 'level of the sea' is not always 'sea level'

How is this relevant?

So you are saying that there is negligible variation in altitude at sea level, and you have also said that:

Quote from: 2fst4u on March 02, 2010, 08:36:52 PM

... [light bends] because of the variation in atmospheric density with altitude, right?

If there is negligible variation in altitude at sea level, and light bends due to variation in atmospheric density with altitude, then why is it relevant whether or not there is variation in atmospheric density at sea level?

True altitude, by definition is measured from mean sea level. How can there be a variation in mean sea level?

The variation in atmospheric density at sea level is not directly related to it's altitude. It is directly related to the barometric pressure and atmospheric temperature.

The 'density altitude' (altitude at which the atmospheric density is the same as if it were at sea level under normal conditions) can vary by a couple of thousand feet in a given place. Up to 5000 feet in extreme changing conditions. (meaning if you stayed at an altitude of 1000 ft, and waited for the change in pressure and altitude to change by a significant amount, the air around would act as if it were either air under normal conditions at -1000ft or even 3000 ft. Quite a big difference).

This means that if light bending was due to atmospheric density, on a given day, the sun could appear in a completely different place (by quite a lot, one would think) than it would on another day because light would either be bend a hell of a lot more, or a hell of a lot less. Bendy light due to atmospheric density is far too inconsistent with everyday observations.

This is a completely different argument to the one you made in the OP. Have you made up your mind what the thread is about yet?

True altitude, by definition is measured from mean sea level. How can there be a variation in mean sea level?

My point exactly. I just wanted to get 2fst4u to say it, so that he couldn't argue with it when I used it against him.