Can someone address this?

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Can someone address this?
« on: December 04, 2011, 05:31:18 PM »
Iím going to start by saying that, hypothetically, the Earth is round. Now, I know that gravity exists because I and everything on Earth is affected by it. I donít, however, know for certain how or why it works. My basic understanding of gravity is that objects of great mass and density, such as the round Earth, the Sun, and other heavenly bodies, have a gravitational pull toward their centers. I canít prove this, however, as it is only based on what Iíve paid attention to in school and other areas of life.

If this is true, then the reason objects donít fall off of the round Earth is explained, though I wouldnít be able to say why objects such as the Earth have a gravitational pull.

Now Iíll say that hypothetically the Earth is flat. I still know that some sort of force, be it called gravity or not, exists for the same reason. From what Iíve read about FET so far, this is because the flat Earth is accelerating directly upward (relative to this face) at a rate of 9.8 m/s2. Fine, then, the reason we are attached to the Earth is given, though I wouldnít be able to say why the Earth has been constantly accelerating directly upward for at least as long as people have been around.

Iím going back to the world being round. It rotates, according to ďRET.Ē This is why we have day and night, yes? The sun doesnít orbit the Earth, as it is much more massive than the Earth. Thatís what I (and everyone) learned. I have experienced first-hand, with the use of a very simple orbit simulator, how this works given that gravity follows the ďRETĒ model.

http://dan-ball.jp/en/javagame/planet/

I want you to take a look at this now:



It was the best video I could find on which the relative motion of the stars is observable. At each axis the same stars are always visible and appear to rotate around the center of the sky. At the equator, different stars are visible at different times of the day. This phenomenon is easily explained by the rotation of the Earth on its axis. I hope you can see how without further explanation.
 
Now the Earth is flat again. Well, damned if we donít observe the same relative motion of the moon and stars (including the sun, though I guess FET distinguishes between stars and the sun). FET I believe would say that the sun and moon ďorbit,Ē or otherwise move around the disk that is Earth to produce the effect of relative motion that we see.

This all seems fine until the stars are observed as they are in the above link. Their motion doesnít seem to fit the FET model, unless Iím mistaken and FET proposes that all of the stars move around the disk Earth as if they were part of some globular cluster surrounding it, all accelerating along with Earth in the exact same direction and speed.

I have only read several topics on these forums, so forgive me if this post is tedious.

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2011, 05:35:03 PM »
The FAQ answers most, if not all of your questions.

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2011, 05:39:58 PM »
It would be immensely appreciated if an explanation specific to this post could be provided here. I have already read a great deal on these forums, and, having not been swayed, am not prepared to waste my time on them any further.

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2011, 05:41:47 PM »
It would be immensely appreciated if an explanation specific to this post could be provided here. I have already read a great deal on these forums, and, having not been swayed, am not prepared to waste my time on them any further.

If you're not prepared to waste any more time here I suggest leaving. After all, if you don't want to waste time on us, why would we waste time on you?

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2011, 05:50:39 PM »
No one has to waste their time on these forums, but it seems many people including yourself do. If you have no intention of swaying me and others like me by providing information specific to our posts, why do you spend time here?

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2011, 05:55:53 PM »
No one has to waste their time on these forums, but it seems many people including yourself do. If you have no intention of swaying me and others like me by providing information specific to our posts, why do you spend time here?

Providing evidence clearly available in the FAQ is just a lack of effort on your part. The point of the FAQ is to provide a ground zero for newcomers so that they can ask more complex questions, rather than ones which are simple in thought and have been asked thousands of times before.

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2011, 06:11:26 PM »
I have read the FAQ to completion and have found no answer to my question. As a side note, I also found no evidence for the claims made in the FAQ.

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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
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Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2011, 06:16:45 PM »
In that timelapse video you are looking at the stars pass by overhead as they rotate around their celestial barycenters above the earth. The stars don't rotate around the earth like a globe, they spin above the earth's surface like disks.

The stars are small and about 3100 miles from the earth's surface. The stars in the Northern Hemisphere rotate around the Northern Barycenter and the stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate around the Southern Barycenter.

See: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49558.0

In the timelapse video, when the stars are curving, they are curving around their barycenter. The stars circle above the earth at a rate of one rotation per 24 hours.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 06:34:58 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2011, 06:36:14 PM »
Thank you for the source. I especially like where you said:

Quote
You can't say what observers on the equator experience on the day the sun switches gears. These are third world countries on the equator. Who is to notice if the sun rises slightly to the right and sets slightly to the left?

The people there are more concerned with spearing zebras for dinner, knitting loincloths, and coming to terms with a permanent body oder. They are not interested in studying alternative world models.
~ Tom Bishop

Pretty funny.

I'm sorry, but I'm abandoning my efforts to convince FE'ers early on. I can clearly see most of you must be trolls while the others are insane. Have fun with trolling/insanity.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 08:19:44 PM by toolpot462 »

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Archibald

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Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2011, 06:45:35 PM »
Thank you for the source. I especially like where you said:

"You can't say what observers on the equator experience on the day the sun switches gears. These are third world countries on the equator. Who is to notice if the sun rises slightly to the right and sets slightly to the left?

The people there are more concerned with spearing zebras for dinner, knitting loincloths, and coming to terms with a permanent body oder. They are not interested in studying alternative world models."

Pretty funny.

I'm sorry, but I'm abandoning my efforts to convince FE'ers early on. I can clearly see most of you must be trolls while the others are insane. Have fun with trolling/insanity.

There are several developed countries located on the equator.  Anyway,  I hope you enjoyed your stay here, the trolling and insanity seems to be above your comprehension skills.
For whatever reason you allow Clocktower to derail any thread Archibald posts in.

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Archibald

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Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2011, 06:51:35 PM »
No one has to waste their time on these forums, but it seems many people including yourself do. If you have no intention of swaying me and others like me by providing information specific to our posts, why do you spend time here?

Providing evidence clearly available in the FAQ is just a lack of effort on your part. The point of the FAQ is to provide a ground zero for newcomers so that they can ask more complex questions, rather than ones which are simple in thought and have been asked thousands of times before.

Excellent work handling that angry noob brother, I am proud of you.

For whatever reason you allow Clocktower to derail any thread Archibald posts in.

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2011, 07:02:57 PM »
No one has to waste their time on these forums, but it seems many people including yourself do. If you have no intention of swaying me and others like me by providing information specific to our posts, why do you spend time here?

Providing evidence clearly available in the FAQ is just a lack of effort on your part. The point of the FAQ is to provide a ground zero for newcomers so that they can ask more complex questions, rather than ones which are simple in thought and have been asked thousands of times before.

Excellent work handling that angry noob brother, I am proud of you.
No! NO!

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2011, 07:38:14 PM »
In that timelapse video you are looking at the stars pass by overhead as they rotate around their celestial barycenters above the earth. The stars don't rotate around the earth like a globe, they spin above the earth's surface like disks.

The stars are small and about 3100 miles from the earth's surface. The stars in the Northern Hemisphere rotate around the Northern Barycenter and the stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate around the Southern Barycenter.

See: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49558.0

In the timelapse video, when the stars are curving, they are curving around their barycenter. The stars circle above the earth at a rate of one rotation per 24 hours.

Tom you are really making huge assumptions here.  By saying that "the stars circle above the earth" you are dismissing the idea of a rotating earth in favor of the stars which is just as easily the explanation for what is seen in the video. 




Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 05:20:11 AM »
Am I correct in saying that all the many and various things that can't be fully explained in FE theory are put aside as 'mysteries'? This really can't be good for your cause.

I'm a so-called noob here and don't know how to include quotes from other posts, but the person who mentions that he "cannot say what people observe on the equator but that they're probably hunting zebras and knitting loin cloths is the sort of person who makes me very worried. Where did he get that information, google, an encyclopedia, the bible? Is he teaching that to his children? I sincerely hope that he just needs to explain himself better.

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Mr Pseudonym

  • Official Member
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Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2011, 05:29:59 AM »
I'm a so-called noob here and don't know how to include quotes from other posts,
Use the little box that says, "quote." 
Nonsensical I know.
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2011, 06:31:10 AM »
I'm a so-called noob here and don't know how to include quotes from other posts,
Use the little box that says, "quote." 
Nonsensical I know.
Aah ... thank you kindly.

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2011, 07:29:45 AM »
It was Tom Bishop that said those ridiculous things, he is the ultimate foe in regards to FE trolls.

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2011, 10:53:35 AM »

The stars are small and about 3100 miles from the earth's surface. The stars in the Northern Hemisphere rotate around the Northern Barycenter and the stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate around the Southern Barycenter.


OMG I literally lauged out lout at this. So every single billions and billions of stars are about 3100 miles above the earth. hahahahahahahahahhaahhaha
The FAQ needs updating to reflect the falsehood of the FAQ.

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2011, 11:02:50 AM »
The stars are small and about 3100 miles from the earth's surface. The stars in the Northern Hemisphere rotate around the Northern Barycenter and the stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate around the Southern Barycenter.

HILARIOUS!

Can you back it with funnier evidence?
ďThe Earth looks flat, therefore it isĒ FEers wisdom.

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Mr Pseudonym

  • Official Member
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Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2011, 03:50:48 PM »

The stars are small and about 3100 miles from the earth's surface. The stars in the Northern Hemisphere rotate around the Northern Barycenter and the stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate around the Southern Barycenter.


OMG I literally lauged out lout at this. So every single billions and billions of stars are about 3100 miles above the earth. hahahahahahahahahhaahhaha
Have you personally counted them all?
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2011, 06:15:00 PM »

The stars are small and about 3100 miles from the earth's surface. The stars in the Northern Hemisphere rotate around the Northern Barycenter and the stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate around the Southern Barycenter.


OMG I literally lauged out lout at this. So every single billions and billions of stars are about 3100 miles above the earth. hahahahahahahahahhaahhaha
Have you personally counted them all?

No, why don't you go ahead and get started with this small section of our galaxy and let me know when you need the next picture.


Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2011, 08:43:48 PM »

The stars are small and about 3100 miles from the earth's surface. The stars in the Northern Hemisphere rotate around the Northern Barycenter and the stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate around the Southern Barycenter.


OMG I literally lauged out lout at this. So every single billions and billions of stars are about 3100 miles above the earth. hahahahahahahahahhaahhaha
Have you personally counted them all?

I have personally and painstakingly counted all of the stars visible from Earth and there are indeed billions and billions of them.

Furthermore, I have worked with a friend in Georgia to determine the ballpark distance of the Sun from Earth using triangulation (http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/AstronNotes/distance.htm). We came up with, taking the curvature of Earth into account, a distance of roughly 160,000,000 km. We didn't do a formal study or anything, though. If we had precise equipment we'd probably have found it to be 147,000,000-152,000,000 km away.

So there. FET debunked.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 11:58:32 AM by toolpot462 »

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Mr Pseudonym

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Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2011, 09:03:00 PM »

The stars are small and about 3100 miles from the earth's surface. The stars in the Northern Hemisphere rotate around the Northern Barycenter and the stars in the Southern Hemisphere rotate around the Southern Barycenter.


OMG I literally lauged out lout at this. So every single billions and billions of stars are about 3100 miles above the earth. hahahahahahahahahhaahhaha
Have you personally counted them all?

I have personally and painstakingly counted all of the stars visible from Earth and there are indeed billions and billions of them.

Furthermore, I have worked with a friend in Georgia to determine the ballpark distance of the Sun from Earth using triangulation (http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/AstronNotes/distance.htm). We came up with, taking the curvature of Earth into account, a distance of roughly 160,000 km. We didn't do a formal study or anything, though. If we had precise equipment we'd probably have found it to be 147,000-152,000 km away.

So there. FET debunked.
Can you elaborate on your process for counting billions and billions of stars? What exact number did you get up to? How did you manage to stay up every night and make sure you didn't recount any? I am fascinated by this study of yours.

As for triangulation, I would suggest a quick search. It is a noobish comment and has been used many times, more recently here.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49547.0
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2011, 01:51:33 AM »
I would like to know what the stars are supposed to "be" if they are only 3100 miles above the earth ... while I'm asking, what is the composition of the "spotlight" sun and the moon? Tried to do a search on these things but got impatient (slow internet). Could someone answer this for me? 

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2011, 10:54:02 AM »
Of course I didn't count the fucking stars! What would counting the stars do to further an argument against you anyway?

I suppose a noob on this forum would have a hard time seeing FET as anything but ridiculous, right?

Although I have yet to see proof that the stars behave as Tom said in FET, or any proof of DE for that matter. Is there any proof that the Earth is an infinite plane? A finite circular plane? Is there proof that there is a huge conspiracy, the sole purpose of which is said to be raising money (ridiculous, seeing how these conspirators already seem to have infinite resources)?

Do you have proof that artificial satellites aren't real and that GPS instead uses towers on Earth? Is there proof that each and every photo of the Earth from orbit (which doesn't exist, I guess) is a fake? I've seen one FE'er say that asteroids don't exist. Is there proof of that? Any proof of bendy light? Any proof that the sun and moon are the same size? Any proof that the sun behaves like a spotlight?

It seems like the FE'ers refuse to accept evidence they haven't dreamed up themselves.

Since I am a noob I suppose you have answers for all of these questions and I should feel like a fool. Shame.

P.S. It's odd that the Bible had it right the whole time. You atheist FE'ers should convert, it would help your case. You could just say, "God makes it so." Wouldn't even be too different from the arguments I've seen.

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2011, 11:19:26 AM »
I watched the video in the link you posted. It's all nonsensical rambling. According to this video, which is clearly being used as evidence by a FE'er, if the Earth was round and I was on the equator, I'd be thrown off. It also said that a zeppelin would for some reason remain stationary in the air while the Earth rotates below it under the RE "model." So I guess under RET, if I jump straight up the Earth should move below me? Don't even try to say that that's not what they're saying. It clearly is, and if you don't think so, you didn't understand the video.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 11:22:34 AM by toolpot462 »

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2011, 11:26:24 AM »


Is this comment in the above link correct?

Quote
This is a Mocumentary meant to make people think about the ridduclous notion that the earth is flat. It is meant to be a joke! And if you watch the whole thing they have fake names for the scientistsand people in the film. Very funny film. Wish the entire thing was on youtube!
Markypie35 1 year ago

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2011, 11:29:50 AM »
This is great. It's true. In Search of the Edge is a mocumentary.

Quote
IN SEARCH OF THE EDGE is a comprehensive documentary proving, fairly conclusively, that the earth is flat!
Humorous, thought-provoking, and at once both absurdist and matter of fact, it presents a carefully constructed argument from a definite, well-researched "flat-earth" point of view, while dismissing the "global earth" doctrine as little more than an elaborate hoax.

The film is comprised of the conventional documentary mix of elements, including interviews with experts, stock footage, still photographs and animation, and is woven together with the story of Andrea Barns, a Canadian woman who devoted her life to convincing the world that the earth is flat.

This is an essential lesson in media literacy for a generation plugged into television. Provoke critical thinking in your students and help them to become aware of the devices used in documentary media; the history of scientific paradigms; and their own willingness to take things at face value.

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momentia

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Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2011, 11:32:04 AM »

Furthermore, I have worked with a friend in Georgia to determine the ballpark distance of the Sun from Earth using triangulation (http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/AstronNotes/distance.htm). We came up with, taking the curvature of Earth into account, a distance of roughly 160,000 km. We didn't do a formal study or anything, though. If we had precise equipment we'd probably have found it to be 147,000-152,000 km away.

So there. FET debunked.

So you assumed RE to debunk FE?  The sun is roughly 160,000 km away according to you? so half as far away as the moon right?

Re: Can someone address this?
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2011, 11:57:23 AM »
I meant to put million. Simple mistake. I'll change it now.