Wow...
Ok, let's see what you can't do without petroleum products...
Work more than 10 miles away from where you live.
Jesus Lorddave have you never heard of a horse???
Have any plastic parts. (ie. modern appliances)
We have this handy thing called tin.
Is it possible? Sure. People did it prior to plastics being invented and gasoline engines being used. But you won't get a horse onto the interstate and you'll live a fairly sheltered live, farming for yourself using wood and metal tools, raising your own animals, and chopping your own firewood.
Why can you not get a horse on the interstate? People could easily commute with horses.
Oh boy, this is going to be fun...
1. Yes I have. I was more concerned with the whole speed, distance, and getting horses onto streets, trotting at 10 mph while motor vehicles attempt to drive on the same street at 55mph.
2. Tin! On my god, how could I have been so blind?! Tin! It's a perfect solution for a non-conductive, non-rusting, study and light material.... oh wait...
3. Again, commuting with horses would work provided everyone did it or you did it in an area where cars don't go, you don't mind the smell of horse droppings, and you have the land capable of housing, feeding, and exercising said horse. Oh and you have one horse per person in your family. Or a wagon with a team of horses. And you don't want to carry anything more than 500 lbs. And you don't need to go anymore than 50 miles in a day.
Yeah...
There is a reason why horses weren't used once the car came out.
Wait so it's my fault I can't get the services I want where I want them? That's not how it should work and you know it.
Yes, the market did respond but my point was that it took the market to deal with it. Driving more fuel efficient cars should happen regardless of the price of gas so why did it take the price of gas to do it? Simply put, people don't do what is good for them, they do what is easy/cheap/makes them happy now.
And government regulation exists only because people feel something is unfair. Is it fair to have someone force business out of an area? No. Is it fair for someone to control the only stock of product (whatever)? No. But in a purely capitalistic society, it is.
To be blunt, capitalism and socialism both work on paper but in the purest form, neither work. Why? Humans are notorious for wanting more power/money/stuff than they need. We call this greed.
I do want to ask you this:
What is the role of government to you? What should all governments do?
Yes, it's your fault you cannot get whatever services you want, unless you are forbidden to have them by the state. If you want whatever service, then why don't you start up a company to provide the service? Or, should the people that live in the inner city and pay higher local taxes and have a higher cost of living, help pay for your one DSL line, or whatever it is you're babbling about? Where do you get your sense of entitlement? In reality though, it's your government's regulations that are keeping small businesses from cropping up and providing whatever service it is you want because of the immense licensing and overhead requirements necessary to start a telecom business these days.
You call self interest greed; I don't. There's nothing wrong with want to make more money and have nicer things than the next guy. It's when you are dishonest, commit fraud, and extort people when it's greed. Big difference.
What's the government's role? Arbitrating property rights, holding jury trials for crimes committed against persons and property, and repelling invasion.
Captialism will, and does, work, all over the world, every day. When you sell an item to a friend, or trade (for instance) one video game for another, you're participating in free market capitalism. These types of small transactions happen all over the world, millions of times each day. The reason capitalism works is because both parties involved in the transaction win.
Take oil for example. Country 'A' is a desert, but has a wealth of petroleum underneath it. Country 'B' is lush and green, but void of oil. Country 'A' can trade it's oil for country 'B's food. Both parties win because it's mutially beneficiary. This works on the microeconomic scale as well. I'm quite sure I don't need to provide an example of how this might work between individuals.
Socialism, doesn't work. It never has, and it never will, because it's evil and oppressive. Who's to say what's right for you and I, other than you and I?
Well Mizzle, why would I start a business up? I'm not a business type of guy. Plus, I need money to do that and where would I get it? The Bank? Yeah, the bank is going to give me a loan when I know nothing about how to operate a business. Learn? Sure, I could learn... but I don't want to learn how to run a business, I want to work FOR a business doing something I enjoy. You and your communist ideas, forcing me to create a business when I don't want to be a business man. Telling me how to live my life.
I'm still not understanding where you got the "people in the inner city pay for your DSL line".... why would they when I wouldn't? Unless they get it too and we both pay equal share. That would be nice really: Equal share for equal service.
Oh and you're wrong. It's not government regulations that's keeping small businesses from cropping up, not in my case. As I said, Frontier is a small business. It's ability to survive is because government regulation states that it has more power than the big business of Verizon. But just because Frontier is a small business doesn't mean it will let other small businesses compete. Ask yourself this: If you tried to put up a business that was in direct competition with another, what do you think that other business will do? Do you think they'd happy smile and help you build up, relishing in the chance for competition? OR do you think they'd do whatever it took to crush you before you began?
ou call self interest greed; I don't. There's nothing wrong with want to make more money and have nicer things than the next guy. It's when you are dishonest, commit fraud, and extort people when it's greed. Big difference.
Nope, nothing wrong at all. But without government regulations, being dishonest, committing fraud, and extorting people is much, much easier don't you think?
What's the government's role? Arbitrating property rights, holding jury trials for crimes committed against persons and property, and repelling invasion.
Ahhh good, now we're getting somewhere.
So what you're saying is the government should have no say in what you can transport into the country? What you can do to the environment? Did you know that certain species of animals introduced into new environments can destroy said environment? Government regulations stop that but you don't feel they should do you? What about defining extortion? Let's take the recent credit card law. Prior, credit card companies could change your interest rate from 7% to 25% overnight. Is that fair? Well the people didn't think so, but it was legal. So the government stepped in and made it illegal to increase the rate overnight. Now it takes 6 months from notification to enactment. But you don't feel that's right do you?
I didn't say capitalism didn't work. I said PURE capitalism doesn't work. For example, what if I have a game. I buy it, play it, then trade it to my friend who does the same thing. In 6 months, everyone at my school has played my copy of the game. That's 1,000 people who played the game for the cost of $50.00 In other words, the game company lost 999 customers. Sounds fair right?
You're right, it won't work but not for the reasons you state. See, people are evil and oppressive. That's natural for us really. An economic model which requires people to see each other as equals in the sense of having equal opportunities for success and happiness can't function if someone don't want someone else to be more powerful than them.
Who's to say what's right for you and I, other than you and I?
How about my Doctor?
I think it's evil and oppressive. Unless it's purely voluntary, which it isn't. Requiring a man to work for anything other than his own personal gain is bondage. I'm sure the ancient Egyptians made a strong case for enslaving the Jews; I'm sure it was for the good of society (note, this is not to be read as Jewish sympathy, it's merely a well known circumstance).
We all have our roles in socialism; Some of us are masters, some of us are slaves. Why do some get to be masters? Well, who's going to make the slaves work? It's alway for the good of society, so why does it matter if you're the master or the slave? The end goal is the same for both: a great society!
The best part about this arrangement is it's not based on merit; it's based on force through a system defined before you were ever born and had a damn thing to say about it.
Socialism has no moral high ground, it never has. It's just a big deception to con you into bondage. Wake up.
Gotta comment on this one here.
1. Why must personal gain be about money? You know, some of us like to work to get better at our jobs, be well respected, gain prestige, ect...
2. Why must it be "you will do what we say"? Why can't you simply say "Do whatever makes you happy and we'll make sure you can do it"? Some people don't enjoy being leaders while others enjoy being workers. I've been both and hate being a leader.
3. You're describing a Caste System, such as what India has. Not a fan of that.
Tell me, how familiar are you with Star Trek?