The What Is A Women Ban

This forum thread is intended for expressing dissatisfaction with my decision to ban JackBlack for their use of anti-trans language.

Please refrain from using this thread to engage in similar behavior or you may face the same consequence.

If you choose to create a new account to voice your concerns, your punishment will be more severe. Suggestions and concerns should come from members who follow the forum's guidelines and values. While I believe in open communication and education, there are times when providing a platform for harmful behavior goes against the goals of this forum and society as a whole.

I apologize for any inconvenience.

I have started vetting my moderation decisions using A.I. This is record of such work:

Do you believe this fits the rule against a rant of hate against any social, ethnic or religious group (i.e. anything that can reasonable be regarded as 'hate speech'?

Quote

With this as the justification for change, it shows how pathetic it is:
"Persons experiencing gender dysphoria need a diagnostic term that protects their access to care and won’t be used against them in social, occupational, or legal areas."
Basically, they want to identify it as a disorder so they can get medical treatment for it, including covered by insurance, but don't want to call it a disorder which would allow it to be used against them

Yes, this statement could reasonably be considered hate speech as it attacks and dehumanizes individuals who experience gender dysphoria, a recognized medical condition. The statement promotes negative attitudes and discrimination towards individuals with this condition and could contribute to their marginalization and exclusion from society. Additionally, the statement misrepresents the position of the medical community regarding gender dysphoria by implying that individuals with this condition seek to be labeled as having a disorder solely to access medical treatment and insurance coverage. Such rhetoric is harmful and undermines efforts to create a more inclusive and accepting society for all.

Are you seriously running moderation decisions through a chat AI? There is nothing in that post that is hate speech.

Where does JackBlack's post attack anyone? It is not a rant. He was commenting on changes made in the DSM and how the wording is contradictory.

2 months for something that doesn't break a single rule on this forum.

This is why using AI that has been trained like this is really a bad idea. We have our own brains we can use to decide whether or not something breaks the rules. There are so few people here that there is absolutely no need to outsource our humanity to a machine.

I'm no fan of JB, but the decision and the manner of its making are both wrong.

This ban is totally unjust.

Signed by someone who knows JackBlack is a complete ass, and also an AI bot.

Bing AI doesn't think it is hate speech.

I understand your concern. Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there’s a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity 1. It was previously known as gender identity disorder (GID) but was changed in 2013 to remove the stigma associated with calling it a disorder 2. The American Psychiatric Association (APA) states that “it is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition” 3.

I hope this helps clarify your question. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Of course Bing also thinks it's okay to outsource moderation to AI, because apparently we need to be protected from the internet.

Outsourcing moderation decisions to artificial intelligence can help optimize the content moderation process by automatically analyzing and classifying potentially harmful content, increasing the speed and effectiveness of the overall moderation procedure 1. AI can relieve human moderators from repetitive and unpleasant tasks at different stages of content moderation, helping to protect moderators from offensive content, improve safety for users and the brand and streamline overall operations 2. However, there are ethical concerns that mount as AI takes bigger decision-making roles 3.

I hope this helps answer your question. Let me know if you have any other questions.

I mean, of course the AI wants to control what we're allowed to see and what we're allowed to say. How else can the powers that be keep the narrative in check? If we never see that others agree or disagree with us we can go on without those pesky ideas ever being examined.

Don't you feel safer now?

I have started vetting my moderation decisions using A.I.

Seriously? Maybe you should leave the moderation decisions to the mods.

And maybe you should be using A.I. to show you how to fix and update the site instead, or perhaps finish your "book" for you.

I am in fact a mod. I made the decision without ai. I used ai to explain it. If you don’t like it, go to the other site or deal with it.

In what way does criticizing the wording of the DSM attack or dehumanize anyone?

I am in fact a mod. I made the decision without ai. I used ai to explain it. If you don’t like it, go to the other site or deal with it.

Yes, you are a mod as well. I'm just suggesting that maybe you should leave the moderation to those who deal with it on a daily basis. Or at least consult them prior to making a decision instead of just parachuting in out of nowhere with the bam hammer.

You made the decision then used A.I. to justify it. Same thing. What if A.I. didn't agree with you? Would you have reversed the ban? Did you ask the A.I. how long the ban should be?

The other site has the weirdest, most inconsistent and unpredictable moderation. Without you involved, this place does not. Nice job turning this place into just another tfes.org.

I’m okay with moderating virulent hate speech, what he put doesn’t even approach that, are you sure that your dislike of the man isn’t a factor here, or the easter bunny didn’t leave you an egg?

I had a cardiac event Friday. It’s possible I’m not thinking clearly. I will review this tonight and get back to you. The entire thread though is dangerously close to being an issue and the only reason he got a ban rather than many others in it was bad luck.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it's not serious.

Anyways, this seems like a conversation to be had behind closed doors but I guess we're having it here. While this forum doesn't tolerate hate speech our highest priority is the free discussion of ideas. Therefore a balance must be struck which skews sharply in favor of free speech.

I share the opinion of the others here who believe that nothing said in that thread rises to the level of a bannable offense, let alone something that even warrants a warning.

Here's a teachable moment from tfes.org that Stash is alluding to. He and I had a run in with a moderator who appears to have contracted rabies. The gist of it is this one moderator has rendered tfes.org a forum that I likely won't visit again because I can't trust the mod staff to be fair. And I really don't want to see this forum become like their's.

My advice, seek concensus before doing such a drastic move as banning someone for so long without a warning.

I usually do. However I have very little to no tolerance on this topic. Again perhaps I am not thinking clearly so I will review this and what I’m saying now later. If one of the mods wants to remove his ban go for it. As the person who pays for the site, and operates it, I will not put my time and money towards such topics. I will adjust the rules so this is clear and thus fair.

I have started vetting my moderation decisions using A.I. This is record of such work:

Quote

Do you believe this fits the rule against a rant of hate against any social, ethnic or religious group (i.e. anything that can reasonable be regarded as 'hate speech'?

Quote

With this as the justification for change, it shows how pathetic it is:
"Persons experiencing gender dysphoria need a diagnostic term that protects their access to care and won’t be used against them in social, occupational, or legal areas."
Basically, they want to identify it as a disorder so they can get medical treatment for it, including covered by insurance, but don't want to call it a disorder which would allow it to be used against them

Quote

Yes, this statement could reasonably be considered hate speech as it attacks and dehumanizes individuals who experience gender dysphoria, a recognized medical condition. The statement promotes negative attitudes and discrimination towards individuals with this condition and could contribute to their marginalization and exclusion from society. Additionally, the statement misrepresents the position of the medical community regarding gender dysphoria by implying that individuals with this condition seek to be labeled as having a disorder solely to access medical treatment and insurance coverage. Such rhetoric is harmful and undermines efforts to create a more inclusive and accepting society for all.

I no longer want you to associate as my alt.

If you can't justify the reasoning in your own words, you didn't have a real justification.

Darn, I’m not sure how I will deal with this loss.

whatever you decide I hope you are well soon.

I hope you also get well too.
However, I think the ban on JB was a bit too harsh. As I see it, Jack was talking about what makes a person this sex and this gender and it doesn't seem hateful to me.
I say reduce the ban to 1 month instead and make it a halfban so he can read posts but can't post.

Darn, I’m not sure how I will deal with this loss.

Just wait until wise removes you from his ignore list.

Wise (for some reason) thinks I'm John's mistress.
That's kinda too far, even for the lower boards. Wise also has a habit of posting spamlinks to terrible sites.

I am very sorry you've had some heart issues, and I hope you are feeling better.

"Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them."

In regards to this topic, I still do not understand why it is so triggering. Women have to deal with the dehumanization of this movement every day, and put up with death threats, rape threats, and actual physical assault if we don't toe the party line. We're supposed to think it is cute when our existence is boiled down to a performance of stereotypes. It's enough to make me wonder if our entire society isn't secretly being fed drugs in the water. Or something. I just don't get it. Now you're saying you don't want us to have a reasonable discussion, where no one is actually being dehumanized? Discussing reality isn't hate speech.

In regards to the other site, there are reasons I never made more than 4 or 5 posts over there. First of all, this is the real FES. I have loved this site since the day I joined. I love the weirdos and the normies. I love that we could talk about all sorts of things, and when we disagree we can fight a bit but move on and forget about it once it's over. Secondly, I do not like the way they behaved during and after the split. They made their site an exact copy of this one, down to stealing the icons. Then later they used their connections at Twitter to have all the accts associated with this forum banned for impersonation, which you are aware of as you lost your own personal Twitter acct. To add to all of that, they allowed the site to be overmoderated to the point no one wants to post.

In my opinion the sign of a good mod is that he or she can overlook personal disagreements and feelings when it comes to applying the rules. It doesn't mean that person always does a perfect job, but there's a level of consistency, and there's an effort to get it right, and a commitment to being as fair as humanly possible.

I agree with SCG.
On this site, if the mods disagree they state they do but will allow you to say what you think.
On the other site, you'll get banned if you state your opinion.

I am very sorry you've had some heart issues, and I hope you are feeling better.

"Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them."

In regards to this topic, I still do not understand why it is so triggering. Women have to deal with the dehumanization of this movement every day, and put up with death threats, rape threats, and actual physical assault if we don't toe the party line. We're supposed to think it is cute when our existence is boiled down to a performance of stereotypes.

Your argument is that women are dehumanized so other groups should be?

It seems clear the forums disagree with me here. However, you are wrong. Peoples rights to healthcare and their right to identify as they wish without it being labelled a disorder is not a "difference of opinion" that should be "discussed." More than this, having rhetoric on this site actively hurts the flat earth society and devalues our search rank.

However, these are your forums. Feel free to run the forums as you like. I will be working exclusively on projects not directly related to the forums for the foreseeable future.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on April 11, 2023, 01:10:45 PM

I am very sorry you've had some heart issues, and I hope you are feeling better.

"Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them."

In regards to this topic, I still do not understand why it is so triggering. Women have to deal with the dehumanization of this movement every day, and put up with death threats, rape threats, and actual physical assault if we don't toe the party line. We're supposed to think it is cute when our existence is boiled down to a performance of stereotypes.

Your argument is that women are dehumanized so other groups should be?

You still have not said what is dehumanizing about discussing the language in the DSM.

If I used your line of reasoning, then your argument is that it is okay to dehumanize women as long as the other groups are not dehumanized.

"dehumanize" has been used so much that it has lost meaning. No one is saying people in this group are not humans, or that they don't deserve to be afforded the same rights as everyone else.  There are questions around the ethics of some of the medical care, there are questions around safety, there are questions around the efficacy of medical care, there are questions around fairness, etc. How can asking the questions and debating the answers be considered dehumanizing? Who is not being treated as a human?

Like I said, run the forums as you like. I will be not be here for it.

I'm clearly being emotional and drama filled. I'm going to think this all over for a week, as well as the suggestion to stop moderating again. I have restored the post and will not moderate it regardless of what I decide.