James's theory on dinosaurs

Exactly. A logical FET becomes saturated with imaginative additions from REers to transform a legitimate theory into a tall tale.

Exactly. A logical FET becomes saturated with imaginative additions from REers to transform a legitimate theory into a tall tale.

Then show us why this dinosaur theory is any better than my posted theory (that the aliens from Alpha Centauri moved the dinosaurs and plants over the ocean), or my other posted theory (that humans travelled back in time and did it). Making a tall tale like these or the one about dinosaurs making ships is easy. Finding evidence is what changes them from tall tales into scientific theories.

We can do many things, but we cannot convert a tall tale about dinosaurs into a tall tale.

Have we observed aliens? No.
Has time travel, backwards, been observed? No

Have dinosaurs been observed building structures? YES!

Remember,

birds are dinosaurs.

Have we observed aliens? No.
Has time travel, backwards, been observed? No

Have dinosaurs been observed building structures? YES!

Remember,

birds are dinosaurs.

Ancient dinosaurs haven't been observed building structures.  And speak for yourself when it comes to having observed aliens.  I'm sure there are people who would disagree (not me, but there are people).

Aliens from worlds separate from Earth,* you perfidious pedant.

no cursing in the upper boards ichi,

Wait, I am confused, dinosaurs were not very smart, did they do this great ocean travel by accident?

Aliens from worlds separate from Earth,* you perfidious pedant.

I wasn't being pedantic, there are people who claim to have seen aliens from other worlds.  I'd say their accounts are at least as reliable as Brother James' dreams/hallucinations.

Wait, I am confused, dinosaurs were not very smart, did they do this great ocean travel by accident?

I can't imagine the people that mastered boats and populated the South Pacific thousands of years ago were much smarter than dinosaurs. If they could do it in just a matter of a few thousand years, surely it's not too hard to imagine that dinosaurs could have done it in the millions of years they had on the planet.

Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on March 21, 2012, 10:42:31 AM

Wait, I am confused, dinosaurs were not very smart, did they do this great ocean travel by accident?

I can't imagine the people that mastered boats and populated the South Pacific thousands of years ago were much smarter than dinosaurs. If they could do it in just a matter of a few thousand years, surely it's not too hard to imagine that dinosaurs could have done it in the millions of years they had on the planet.

Thousands of years ago we were still humans, we may not have been as knowledgeable as we are now, and with less emphasis one education we were certainly on average less intelligent, but i am looking at the EQ of the dinosaurs, and frankly its minuscule compared to homo sapiens, monkeys, and dolphines, even elephants.

Quote from: Pongo on March 21, 2012, 01:05:11 PM

Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on March 21, 2012, 10:42:31 AM

Wait, I am confused, dinosaurs were not very smart, did they do this great ocean travel by accident?

I can't imagine the people that mastered boats and populated the South Pacific thousands of years ago were much smarter than dinosaurs. If they could do it in just a matter of a few thousand years, surely it's not too hard to imagine that dinosaurs could have done it in the millions of years they had on the planet.

Thousands of years ago we were still humans, we may not have been as knowledgeable as we are now, and with less emphasis one education we were certainly on average less intelligent, but i am looking at the EQ of the dinosaurs, and frankly its minuscule compared to homo sapiens, monkeys, and dolphines, even elephants.

And you can continue the list: the IQ of dinosaurs was minuscule compared to a dog's, a cat's, a cow's.

Ancient dinosaurs haven't been observed building structures.

Ancient Egyptians have not been observed building structures. Therefore...?

Have we observed aliens? No.
Has time travel, backwards, been observed? No

And have we found Deinonychi in enough quantity to justify the idea that they had a culture? No. (Remember, they could have made their tools with wood, but they would have left, at least, their skeletons). And have they been found close to the remains of the creatures they supposedly took across the oceans? No. And have we found any creature that had the ecological sense to carry all living things, including plants, predators, herbivores so big that it was impossible to use them as food?

Even we, humans, have never even attempted moving such enormous amount of different flora and fauna, enough to populate a continent or two. And remember, the geological strata also matches. Did the Deinonichi also carry geological strata in their 4 meter rafts?

All I ask of you is that you believe in one unobserved phenomenon, be it space travel or time travel. And yes, it is too much to ask.

Why should anybody believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Why should anybody believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Well, there are two possible reasons:

1) They really want to (por ejemple, religious converts)
2) They were raised to believe so (por ejemple, most RE'ers)

This phenomenon, however, has quite a bit of evidence. For instance, fossils of certain ancient dinosaurs of the same species have been found on separate continents.

Quote from: Cat Earth Theory on March 21, 2012, 10:02:38 AM

Ancient dinosaurs haven't been observed building structures.

Ancient Egyptians have not been observed building structures. Therefore...?

But we have artifacts from the ancient Egyptians.  No so for ancient dinosaurs.

Quote from: EireEngineer on March 21, 2012, 05:42:27 PM

Why should anybody believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Well, there are two possible reasons:

1) They really want to (por ejemple, religious converts)
2) They were raised to believe so (por ejemple, most RE'ers)

This phenomenon, however, has quite a bit of evidence. For instance, fossils of certain ancient dinosaurs of the same species have been found on separate continents.

Which is completely reasonable if continents shift, which we can currently record them doing.  And our theory of how they are moving uses a mechanism that would have been present when the dinosaurs were around.

I was taught RE, and for an extensive period of time now i have been exposed to FE and never have i seen a single topic that is better explained by FE than it is by RE.  At best FE offers inadequate semi plausible alternatives to things that RE predicts extremely well, and on many topics FE has absolutely no theory.

Quote from: Pongo on March 21, 2012, 01:05:11 PM

Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on March 21, 2012, 10:42:31 AM

Wait, I am confused, dinosaurs were not very smart, did they do this great ocean travel by accident?

I can't imagine the people that mastered boats and populated the South Pacific thousands of years ago were much smarter than dinosaurs. If they could do it in just a matter of a few thousand years, surely it's not too hard to imagine that dinosaurs could have done it in the millions of years they had on the planet.

Thousands of years ago we were still humans, we may not have been as knowledgeable as we are now, and with less emphasis one education we were certainly on average less intelligent, but i am looking at the EQ of the dinosaurs, and frankly its minuscule compared to homo sapiens, monkeys, and dolphines, even elephants.

Do you have the IQ stats for all dinosaurs?

Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on March 21, 2012, 02:21:33 PM

Quote from: Pongo on March 21, 2012, 01:05:11 PM

Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on March 21, 2012, 10:42:31 AM

Wait, I am confused, dinosaurs were not very smart, did they do this great ocean travel by accident?

I can't imagine the people that mastered boats and populated the South Pacific thousands of years ago were much smarter than dinosaurs. If they could do it in just a matter of a few thousand years, surely it's not too hard to imagine that dinosaurs could have done it in the millions of years they had on the planet.

Thousands of years ago we were still humans, we may not have been as knowledgeable as we are now, and with less emphasis one education we were certainly on average less intelligent, but i am looking at the EQ of the dinosaurs, and frankly its minuscule compared to homo sapiens, monkeys, and dolphines, even elephants.

Do you have the IQ stats for all dinosaurs?

You cannot test the IQ of dead things.  We have calculated every EQ for all the dinosoars that we have complete skeletons for.  Another issue is that it is not very effective outside of mammals, because mammals have more brain power devoted outside of cognitive functions than reptiles, and therefore require larger brains.  But on average the EQ of cold blooded dinosaurs is lower than mammals and birds.

Mean EQ for reptiles are about one tenth of the EQ for mammals. EQ in birds (and estimated EQ in dinosaurs) generally also falls below that of mammals, possibly due to lower thermoregulation and/or motor control demands.[18] Estimation of brain size in the oldest known bird, Archaeopteryx, shows it had an EQ in the upper reptilian range, but below that of living birds.

The general consensus according to most people who devote their entire life to researching this is that dinosaurs were not ship builders, they were just relatively smart overgrown reptiles.

Leading archeologists argue that dinosaurs were warm blooded.

Leading archeologists argue that dinosaurs were warm blooded.

There is no evidence to support that all dinosaurs were warm blooded, and in fact its nearly impossible for some of the uber large ones to have been warm blooded.  It is true that there has been a general shift since the 60s towards the idea that dinosaurs were faster, smarter, and warmer than we thought, but there is no evidence beyond faster than expected bone growth and perhaps their lifestyle.

There is also no way to rule out a third option of some sort, with no living specimens to examine.

Regardless the point still stands that the general consensus is that most dinosaurs were dumber than the average mammal, and the average land mammal cannot create boats and get across oceans.

Quote from: Pongo on March 21, 2012, 11:41:48 PM

Leading archeologists argue that dinosaurs were warm blooded.

There is no evidence to support that all dinosaurs were warm blooded, and in fact its nearly impossible for some of the uber large ones to have been warm blooded.  It is true that there has been a general shift since the 60s towards the idea that dinosaurs were faster, smarter, and warmer than we thought, but there is no evidence beyond faster than expected bone growth and perhaps their lifestyle.

There is also no way to rule out a third option of some sort, with no living specimens to examine.

Regardless the point still stands that the general consensus is that most dinosaurs were dumber than the average mammal, and the average land mammal cannot create boats and get across oceans.

Most mammals can't use tools. Does that mean that all mammals can't use tools?

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 21, 2012, 05:19:29 PM

Quote from: Cat Earth Theory on March 21, 2012, 10:02:38 AM

Ancient dinosaurs haven't been observed building structures.

Ancient Egyptians have not been observed building structures. Therefore...?

But we have artifacts from the ancient Egyptians.  No so for ancient dinosaurs.

So you agree that whether or not anyone has observed ancient dinosaurs/Egyptians building structures has no bearing on whether they did or not. Glad we cleared that up.


Now, what are the odds of us having found sea-faring boats made by dinosaurs, given the state of the fossil record?

Quote from: Cat Earth Theory on March 21, 2012, 06:06:14 PM

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 21, 2012, 05:19:29 PM

Quote from: Cat Earth Theory on March 21, 2012, 10:02:38 AM

Ancient dinosaurs haven't been observed building structures.

Ancient Egyptians have not been observed building structures. Therefore...?

But we have artifacts from the ancient Egyptians.  No so for ancient dinosaurs.

So you agree that whether or not anyone has observed ancient dinosaurs/Egyptians building structures has no bearing on whether they did or not. Glad we cleared that up.

James brought up that we've seen dinosaurs build structures.  I was merely pointing out that we haven't seen ancient dinosaurs (i.e. what most people mean when they say dinosaur) doing that, so it's proof of nothing.  We certainly haven't seen birds building ships with sails and berths to hold goods, either.

I'm afraid you can't use semantics to magic away the fact that you have no evidence of boat-building ancient dinosaurs.  Unless we're counting the hallucinations of a schizophrenic as evidence, now.

Modern dinosaurs don't need to build grand ships. They evolved a means of flight.

Um, dinosaurs fly so dinosaurs didn't need ships.  Argument over.

Um, dinosaurs fly so dinosaurs didn't need ships.  Argument over.

Not the early ones.

Quote from: Cat Earth Theory on March 22, 2012, 10:31:24 AM

Um, dinosaurs fly so dinosaurs didn't need ships.  Argument over.

Not the early ones.

How do you know?

I believe that these early civilizations of dinosaurs may have, in fact, been dragons.

Now, what are the odds of us having found sea-faring boats made by dinosaurs, given the state of the fossil record?

Archeologists have found a number of fossilized dinosaur bones, eggs, nests and even feces.  Why should it be unreasonable to expect to be able to find fossilized dinosaur boats?