James's theory on dinosaurs

I don't think many dinosaurs are really that limited by their bio-mechanics. Just look at modern dinosaurs, and how they can make intricate homes using nothing other than their mouths.

Modern bird's nests are not comparable with the ocean sailing that James is proposing.

In order for them to sail successfully they would have to have developed several different lines of technologies, any one of which should have left some evidence, even over that length of time.

In order for them to sail successfully they would have to have developed several different lines of technologies, any one of which should have left some evidence, even over that length of time.

Like what?

In order for them to sail successfully they would have to have developed several different lines of technologies, any one of which should have left some evidence, even over that length of time.

Like what? The natives that arrived to Hawaii or Easter island are supposed to have only used rafts or canoes.

Modern dinosaurs are able to intricately weave their homes out of sticks, and even water proof them. Are you suggesting ancient dinosaurs would be incapable of stringing logs together?

Quote from: EireEngineer on March 15, 2012, 05:12:46 PM

In order for them to sail successfully they would have to have developed several different lines of technologies, any one of which should have left some evidence, even over that length of time.

Like what? The natives that arrived to Hawaii or Easter island are supposed to have only used rafts or canoes.

They also had tools.

Modern dinosaurs are able to intricately weave their homes out of sticks, and even water proof them. Are you suggesting ancient dinosaurs would be incapable of stringing logs together?

Floating nests are not comparable with the ocean going ships that James proposed.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on March 15, 2012, 05:47:04 PM

Quote from: EireEngineer on March 15, 2012, 05:12:46 PM

In order for them to sail successfully they would have to have developed several different lines of technologies, any one of which should have left some evidence, even over that length of time.

Like what? The natives that arrived to Hawaii or Easter island are supposed to have only used rafts or canoes.

They also had tools.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on March 15, 2012, 05:47:04 PM

Modern dinosaurs are able to intricately weave their homes out of sticks, and even water proof them. Are you suggesting ancient dinosaurs would be incapable of stringing logs together?

Floating nests are not comparable with the ocean going ships that James proposed.

Irrelevant. The spirit of James's Theory is that ancient dinosaur fossils appear on different continents because the dinosaurs had migrated there via the ocean. Just because they may not have been able to build the warships of today (which is a different debate) does not mean they could not have created seaworthy vessels.

Quote from: markjo on March 15, 2012, 07:02:45 PM

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on March 15, 2012, 05:47:04 PM

Quote from: EireEngineer on March 15, 2012, 05:12:46 PM

In order for them to sail successfully they would have to have developed several different lines of technologies, any one of which should have left some evidence, even over that length of time.

Like what? The natives that arrived to Hawaii or Easter island are supposed to have only used rafts or canoes.

They also had tools.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on March 15, 2012, 05:47:04 PM

Modern dinosaurs are able to intricately weave their homes out of sticks, and even water proof them. Are you suggesting ancient dinosaurs would be incapable of stringing logs together?

Floating nests are not comparable with the ocean going ships that James proposed.

Irrelevant. The spirit of James's Theory is that ancient dinosaur fossils appear on different continents because the dinosaurs had migrated there via the ocean. Just because they may not have been able to build the warships of today (which is a different debate) does not mean they could not have created seaworthy vessels.

And by the same logic: That different species today can build something does not imply that a different species did so in the past.

Quote from: markjo on March 15, 2012, 07:02:45 PM

Floating nests are not comparable with the ocean going ships that James proposed.

Irrelevant. The spirit of James's Theory is that ancient dinosaur fossils appear on different continents because the dinosaurs had migrated there via the ocean. Just because they may not have been able to build the warships of today (which is a different debate) does not mean they could not have created seaworthy vessels.

Actually, it's quite relevant because James claims that ancient dinosaurs had a robust sea faring civilization.  This is far and away more advanced than mere floating nests.

Alrighty, can someone actually post the theory?

Alrighty, can someone actually post the theory?

Not really, because the theory has to be totally fluid to give the appearance of validity. The vessels have to be enormous when confronted with the fact that these dinosaurs would have needed gigantic boats to carry enormous dinosaurs and their food. Then the boats have to become small when confronted with the enormity of the task of making such huge boats, which not even us, with all our technology, can build out of wood.

The tools have to be simple and wooden when arguing that a dinosaur or a bird could have made it, and then have to become incredibly sophisticated when arguing that a big boat was done with them. And then they have to become simple again when arguing that every single piece of their technology rotted and disappeared.

They have not accepted that a technologically advanced culture is needed to make these large boats, and that this would mean having complete cities that also magically disappeared.

So, the answer is the same as with FET: you do not have one theory that explains most evidence, you have a myriad small theories that explain each single piece of evidence (in this case, each single piece of missing evidence), and which contradict each other.

They have also failed to show why my theory, by which the aliens from Alpha Centauri came and moved the dinosaurs and flora over the oceans, is not any better than their patchwork of theories. At least mine covers all bases with just one theory. (Of course my preferred theory is what real science tells us).

Edit: added bolded "not" to correct typo

Admittedly this is just a hunch, but I am willing to bet that any vessel large enough to carry anything bigger than a velociraptor, especially if it is only built out of plant materials, would run smack up against the inverse cube law.

Noah built an ark that could hold two of every animal in the world, I'm pretty sure that a dinosaur could build a similar boat to hold lots of its friends.

Noah built an ark that could hold two of every animal in the world, I'm pretty sure that a dinosaur could build a similar boat to hold lots of its friends.

Sorry, did you have some evidence about Noah that you forgot to provide?

Admittedly this is just a hunch, but I am willing to bet that any vessel large enough to carry anything bigger than a velociraptor, especially if it is only built out of plant materials, would run smack up against the inverse cube law.

Has a sizeable reed boat crossed the atlantic recently.

Ra II crossed the Atlantic Ocean and sailed the approx. 6,100 km from Safi in Morocco to Barbados in the West Indies in 57 days. Since this time the experiment had been successful, anthropologists across the entire world had to forget the old dogma that papyrus boats could not have brought cultural impulses from North Africa to Central America in pre-Columbian times.

Quote from: EireEngineer on March 16, 2012, 06:08:16 AM

Admittedly this is just a hunch, but I am willing to bet that any vessel large enough to carry anything bigger than a velociraptor, especially if it is only built out of plant materials, would run smack up against the inverse cube law.

Has a sizeable reed boat crossed the atlantic recently.

Ra II crossed the Atlantic Ocean and sailed the approx. 6,100 km from Safi in Morocco to Barbados in the West Indies in 57 days. Since this time the experiment had been successful, anthropologists across the entire world had to forget the old dogma that papyrus boats could not have brought cultural impulses from North Africa to Central America in pre-Columbian times.

Please, do tell us what "sizeable" means for you. Is this papyrus boat enough to carry one Diplodocus?

Or is it more like a "sizeable" boat that carried a couple of people and their food? The people in this photo don't even seem as big as anything other than a Velociraptor, but maybe that is just me.

Noah built an ark that could hold two of every animal in the world, I'm pretty sure that a dinosaur could build a similar boat to hold lots of its friends.

This logical fallacy is known as a non sequitur.  Noah was not a dinosaur therefore no conclusion about dinosaur abilities can be drawn from his ability to build an ark.

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on March 16, 2012, 08:54:14 AM

Noah built an ark that could hold two of every animal in the world, I'm pretty sure that a dinosaur could build a similar boat to hold lots of its friends.

This logical fallacy is known as a non sequitur.  Noah was not a dinosaur therefore no conclusion about dinosaur abilities can be drawn from his ability to build an ark.

But, in fact we can find clear indications of the opposite argument in this one. It has been demonstrated several times that Noah's ark is impossible to construct without steel. I have no problem with people believing in the literal explanation in the Bible, as long as they declare themselves non-scientists. Then they can declare that Noah's trip needed a miracle per minute, and it is their problem if they believe it.

But without miracles, it is impossible to make a sea-faring wooden 300 cubit vessel, even if you have metallic tools, opposable thumbs, more than twice the intelligence of any other animal and a culture that is thousands of years old, which created thousands of progressively larger boats with progressively better technology.

Noah built an ark that could hold two of every animal in the world, I'm pretty sure that a dinosaur could build a similar boat to hold lots of its friends.

Noahs Ark, supposedly of beam and plank construction of gopher wood, hits the inverse cube law a lot harder than even te dino straw boat would, lol

Why would they have to carry adult dinosaurs? They could easily carry the young or even the eggs.

Why would they have to carry adult dinosaurs? They could easily carry the young or even the eggs.

Are you suggesting that the young or even the eggs piloted the ship, maintained the ship, and tended to the passengers?

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on March 19, 2012, 08:40:46 PM

Why would they have to carry adult dinosaurs? They could easily carry the young or even the eggs.

Are you suggesting that the young or even the eggs piloted the ship, maintained the ship, and tended to the passengers?

They could have floated on currents. Or Pliosaurs could have pushed them like dolphins do to rafts nowadays.

Are you suggesting that the young or even the eggs piloted the ship, maintained the ship, and tended to the passengers?

What are you talking about? Your contention doesn't even make internal sense


I am suggesting that Deinonychus (James' main candidate), a dinosaur significantly shorter than the average human, could have easily brought the eggs or young of other species across the sea in small but sturdy vessels. There is no reason why fully grown species of massive dinosaur would have to be transported.

Quote from: ClockTower on March 19, 2012, 08:55:05 PM

Are you suggesting that the young or even the eggs piloted the ship, maintained the ship, and tended to the passengers?

What are you talking about? Your contention doesn't even make internal sense


I am suggesting that Deinonychus (James' main candidate), a dinosaur significantly shorter than the average human, could have easily brought the eggs or young of other species across the sea in small but sturdy vessels. There is no reason why fully grown species of massive dinosaur would have to be transported.

So when you asked "Why would they have to carry adult dinosaurs?", you meant beyond the Deinonychus adults running the ship? Got it.

They could have floated on currents. Or Pliosaurs could have pushed them like dolphins do to rafts nowadays.

They could have, but that is not what James is suggesting.  James is suggesting sailing ships along the lines of those used in colonial times (circa 15th - 18th century).

So when you asked "Why would they have to carry adult dinosaurs?", you meant beyond the Deinonychus adults running the ship? Got it.

Precisely, hence "they". That's what pronouns are for.

obviously the murgu had far more advanced biological technology than we have today

Quote from: ClockTower on March 19, 2012, 09:10:54 PM

So when you asked "Why would they have to carry adult dinosaurs?", you meant beyond the Deinonychus adults running the ship? Got it.

Precisely, hence "they". That's what pronouns are for.

ambiguous antecedent much? Oh, so now "they" refers to adult Deinonychi. What an amazing leap to the antecedent!

So now you want us to believe without any DSE that "they" carried the eggs of predator species across the Oceans. I assume "they" did so to have the fun of avoiding being eaten. Your outlandish claims are outlandish.

ambiguous antecedent much? Oh, so now "they" refers to adult Deinonychi. What an amazing leap to the antecedent!

Uh, this is what James has always suggested. It's not my fault that you've decided to enter the discussion despite apparently having no clue about what is being discussed. Much as it pains us, we read your posts. It would be nice if you returned the favour.

So now you want us to believe without any DSE that "they" carried the eggs of predator species across the Oceans. I assume "they" did so to have the fun of avoiding being eaten. Your outlandish claims are outlandish.

Gosh yes, imagine a species transporting creatures that could potentially predate upon them across the ocean. When has that ever happened?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_Rewilding#List_of_species_proposed_for_the_Pleistocene_Rewilding_project


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoo

Gosh yes, imagine a species transporting creatures that could potentially predate upon them across the ocean. When has that ever happened?

You are comparing a species and a civilization that has every weapon imaginable, which will leave a thousand or a million times as much of a footprint to archaeologists from the next tens of millions of years as the dinosaurs ever did, with a species who (in your mind) did nothing more than a few boats.

Lions and big predators pose almost no danger to humans. Small dinosaurs were in permanent danger from the larger ones. There is a reason why archaeologists are now finding a few Deinonychus in very limited locations on Earth, but future archaeologists will find humans everywhere. Humans are so powerful that they do not have any predators of importance, while Deinonychi were hunted by other dinosaurs and suffered from lots of dangers, to the point where they never were an important percentage of the living dinosaurs.

Other carnivore dinosaurs not just "could potentially predate upon them", other dinosaurs did predate on them.

This whole thread is a prime example of what happens when people confuse imagination with logic and evidence.