The model is all that matters...

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2024, 02:31:59 AM »

I mean, that link to the “Electric sun” (sic), and a smorgasbord of rammel and pseudo-science underlines my point, actual science with results against woo merchants huff-puffing in their bubbles of cosy mutual onanism.
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Suicide is dangerous- other philosophies are available-#Life is great.

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sandokhan

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2024, 03:09:30 AM »
All of you, the RE, should change your names to Idi-Amin. The British and the American diplomats had left the country. The only embassy representatives left were the Soviets and Amin had a quarrel with them. So they headed for the airport to leave the country as well. At that point, Amin's only advisor told him: "you can't affort to let the Russian leave, they'd be no one left". So Amin grabbed a broken harmonica, and took the jeep to the airport. Just as the Soviet delegation was about to board the plane, Amin started to play a well-known russian folksong with that harmonica.

You, the RE, are in a similar situation.

You, the RE, are denying (calling them "delusional BS") your very best RE physicists.

The final conclusion reached by these famous physicists is this: gravity is described by emissive/receptive gravitons, which emit/absorb aether through wormholes, and these gravitons are quantum entangled.

The only stable wormhole is an aether absorbing wormhole.

Here are the bibliographical references, read for yourselves:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=92282.msg2418397#msg2418397

These are the very best RE physicists, no question about it, and they have finally solved the riddle of gravity: the final conclusion, it is not attractive at all.

So, naturally, we have to wonder about the story we are being told, namely that the Earth has an orbital speed of 29km/s. Then, the quantum entagled gravitons cannot explain how an object at the surface of a sphere (geoid) can adhere to that surface given this speed.


Jura, please give up your failed incursion into heliophysics. What? You do not like the electric sun theory?

Then, explain the CNO paradox: remember, these are the very best RE heliophysicists at work.

CNO CYCLE DEFIES THE SOLAR NUCLEAR FURNACE HYPOTHESIS

An extraordinary look at the CNO cycle:

Observational Confirmation of the Sun's CNO Cycle

https://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0512/0512633.pdf (a must read)

This paper provides the latest proofs which show the following:

Measurements on gamma-rays from a solar flare in Active Region 10039 on 23 July 2002 with the RHESSI spacecraft spectrometer indicate that the CNO cycle occurs at the solar surface, in electrical discharges along closed magnetic loops.

"But the nuclear furnace theory assumes that these nuclear events are separated from surface events by hundreds of thousands of years as the heat from the core slowly percolates through the Sun’s hypothetical “radiative zone”."

A clear debunking of the currently accepted solar model.

"To confirm these surface events Iron Sun proponents point to the telltale signatures of the “CNO cycle” first set forth in the work of Hans Bethe. In 1939 Bethe proposed that the stable mass-12 isotope of Carbon catalyzes a series of atomic reactions in the core of the Sun, resulting in the fusion of hydrogen into helium. This nucleosynthesis, according to Bethe, occurs through a “Carbon-Nitrogen-Oxygen (CNO) cycle,” as helium is constructed from the nuclei of hydrogen atoms—protons—at temperatures ranging from 14 million K to 20 million K.

For some time now, solar scientists have observed the products expected from the CNO cycle, but now they see a relationship of these products’ abundances to sunspot activity. This finding is crucial because the nuclear events that standard theory envisions are separated from surface events by hundreds of thousands of years as the heat from the core slowly percolates through the Sun’s hypothetical “radiative zone”. From this vantage point, a connection between the hidden nuclear furnace and sunspot activity is inconceivable."

Proponents of the Iron Sun, therefore, have posed an issue that could be fatal to the standard model.


https://web.archive.org/web/20120204044737/http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts2005/The_Suns_Origin.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20080509075056/http://www.omatumr.com/papers.html

In his autobiography, “Home Is Where the Wind Blows,” Sir Fred Hoyle documents the abrupt, and seemingly inexplicable U-Turn in astronomy, astrophysics, solar physics immediately after “nuclear fires” ended the Second World War:

[Referring to Hoyle’s meeting with Sir Arthur Eddington one spring day in 1940]: “We both believed that the Sun was made mostly of iron, two parts iron to one part of hydrogen, more or less. The spectrum of sunlight, chock-a-block with lines of iron, had made this belief seem natural to astronomers for more than fifty years.” . . . (page 153)

“The high-iron solution continued to reign supreme in the interim (at any rate, in the astronomical circles to which I was privy) until after the Second World War,” . . .

“when I was able to show, to my surprise, that the high-hydrogen, low iron solution was to be preferred for the interiors as well as for the atmospheres.” (page 153-154)

“My paper on the matter confounded a doctrine of (Raymond) Lyttleton, who used to say there are three stages in the acceptance by the world of a new idea.

1. The idea is nonsense.

2. Somebody thought of it before you did.

3. We believed it all the time.
This matter of the high-hydrogen solution was the only occasion, in my experience, when the first and second of these stages were missing.“ (page 154)

Two other recent papers confirm that the Sun’s energy spectrum varies in the manner expected from a pulsar core that is shielded by turbulent layers of ordinary atomic matter:

_ a.) Judith L. Lean and Matthew T. DeLand, “How Does the Sun’s Spectrum Vary?” Journal of Climate, 25, 2555–2560 (April 2012)


_ b.) C. Martin-Puertas, K. Matthes, A. Brauer, R. Muscheler, F. Hansen, C. Petrick, A. Aldahan, G. Possnert, B. Van Geel, “Regional atmospheric circulation shifts induced by a grand solar minimum,” Nature Geoscience 5 , 397-401 (June 2012)


SOLID SURFACE OF THE SUN paradox.

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/index.html

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/model.htm

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/sunquakes.htm

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/moss.htm

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/tsunami.htm?

« Last Edit: March 07, 2024, 03:17:09 AM by sandokhan »

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2024, 05:13:35 AM »

 aether

What is aether, and how does it work if you don’t believe in the fundamental force of gravity.  Gravity that is used to accurately and reliable calculate trajectories of bullets.  How would you replace gravity with aether, and would it increase the accuracy of modeling trajectories of bullets.

Hey.  Asked you a question..

Telluric currents (ether, gravitational/electromagnetic waves) propagate like this, in double helix/torsion fashion:



Beta radiation is actual electrons being emitted. Let’s take it to something real. An example is the radioactive decay of Strontium-90 which is a beta (electron) emitter. 

If Strontium 90 creates a field of electrons why isn’t it a gravitons/gravity generator?

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2024, 05:15:07 AM »
All of you, the RE, should change your names to Idi-Amin.

From the one that is derailing the thread off topic..



Since you don't know much about gravity

I really didn’t know the opening post was all about gravity.

I thought the opening post was more about….


Here is a short screen recording of that software being run on my machine:



What I would like to point out about this particular model of the Earth, is that in the simulation software, it says that the sun is 32 miles in diameter and that it is 3,000 miles above the flat surface of the Earth. But there are two key points that I bring into question:

1) The moon is reflecting the light of the sun above areas of the Earth that are shown as being dark
2) The model does not show the sun rising from below the horizon nor does it show the sun setting below the horizon

What seems puzzling to me, is that it depicts the sun as shining light down like a spotlight, yet you can clearly see that the moon is reflecting light from the sun which would mean that the light that is emitting from the sphere of the sun is in fact going out in all directions, yet it shows that at any given time, parts of the Earth are dark.


Care to address the actual opening post.  (Seen this used in another site). Instead of changing the subject and throwing out flack? 


But it does beg the question what keeps the sun aloft with the moon on a flat earth?  Where the sun is a physical object that emits radiation and light that are physically blocked by a moon during a solar eclipse?  🤔

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2024, 05:16:37 AM »

You, the RE, are in a similar situation.



Hmm.  How does the sun stay in orbit in flat earth delusion? 

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2024, 07:57:15 AM »
No Sandy, your post above again underlines my point, on one hand you send me to a “electric sun”, but then you cite a must read that bases it’s findings on a low Earth orbital satellite, aimed at a sun 93 million miles away, you are right, I’m not an expert on the sun and it may well be based on the core of a supernova, although the consensus is against that and spectral lines don't show it, but you’re missing the point.

Your musings are from data from a low Earth orbital satellite.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2024, 08:34:48 AM by Jura-Glenlivet II »
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Suicide is dangerous- other philosophies are available-#Life is great.

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sandokhan

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2024, 09:56:49 AM »
You can become an expert in heliophysics faster than any other way, by reading my messages on the subject.



The opening post must totally kill flat earth for you to pointlessly try to derail this thread.  So sad. 

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JackBlack

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2024, 12:40:32 PM »
All of you, the RE, should change your names to Idi-Amin.
No thanks.
You should change your name to lying conman.

Again, where is your mechanism?

If you don't have one, then stop complaining about the RE not having one.

These are the very best RE physicists
No, they aren't.
You didn't link to any physicist.
You instead chose to link the ravings of a mad man, who has been shown to repeatedly lie to others, and misrepresent the results/findings/claims of actual physicists.
Someone who has been shown to have absolutely no integrity at all, who will flee after their BS is repeatedly exposed.

None of the BS you are spouting is relevant to the discussion.
You are just bringing up the same refuted BS that has been refuted countless times.
If you want to link to a thread, then link to one in the debate forum where people can see your insane claims and the refutation of your BS.

Again, either provide a mechanism yourself, which doesn't suffer from the same problems (i.e. EVERYTHING IS EXPLAINED); or address how the sun can be hidden from view from so many people when it is meant to be above a flat Earth.

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sandokhan

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2024, 01:20:37 PM »
The final version of the RE gravity is actually what FET describes as being the mechanism for gravity.

J.S. Bell's theorem was a game changer, for the first time quantum entanglement was proven to exist. If quantum entanglement is a superluminal highway, where does it take place? This is when gravitational wormhole theory took off, from the very start, physicists realized that only an aether absorbing wormhole has the stability required to function.

Let us first establish the correct quantum physics setting for the correct description of gravity: there are two kinds of gravitons, one which absorbs aether and one which emits aether (the antigraviton).


https://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-th/9202054.pdf

Gravitons and Loops

Abhay Ashtekar, Carlo Rovelli and Lee Smolin

The “reality conditions” are realized by an inner product that is chiral asymmetric, resulting in a chiral asymmetric ordering for the Hamiltonian, and, in an asymmetric description of the left and right handed gravitons.

The first step towards this goal is to recast the Fock description of graviton also in terms of closed loops.


https://arxiv.org/pdf/1010.3552.pdf

Chiral vacuum fluctuations in quantum gravity

Is made up of the right handed positive frequency of the graviton and the left handed negative frequency of the anti-graviton.


This is why jackblack is a modern version of Idi Amin: he's got no one else he can rely on. All of the best RE physicists agree with me: gravity is not attractive. Moreover, these famous physicists have provided the mechanism of the grey wormhole (both absorbing and emissive). He is now calling the work of the best RE physicists as "delusional  BS" as their findings contradicts his belief in pure magic. This is the end of the line for you jack, gravity cannot be and is not attractive.


In 1969, Dr. H.G. Ellis published his famous paper in which he had proved that the only working model of an wormhole is that which absorbs aether. Imagine trying to publish a paper whose title includes the word "ether drainhole" in 1969 in the most famous and prestigious journal of mathematical physics in the world. It took four years for the peer-reviewers to verify each and every equation, since they could not believe it could be true, and finally, in 1973, his paper was published in the Journal of Mathematical Physics:

Ether flow through a drainhole: A particle model in general relativity
Journal of Mathematical Physics. 14: 104–118

http://euclid.colorado.edu/~ellis/RelativityPapers/EtFlThDrPaMoGeRe.pdf


Julian Sonner, a senior postdoc in MIT’s Laboratory for Nuclear Science and Center for Theoretical Physics, has published his results in the journal Physical Review Letters, where it appears together with a related paper by Kristan Jensen of the University of Victoria and Andreas Karch of the University of Washington.

The tangled web that is gravity

He found that what emerged was a wormhole connecting the two entangled quarks, implying that the creation of quarks simultaneously creates a wormhole. More fundamentally, he says, gravity itself may be a result of entanglement. What’s more, the universe’s geometry as described by classical gravity may be a consequence of entanglement—pairs of particles strung together by tunneling wormholes.


The deepest connection between gravity and quantum entanglement:

“The universality of the gravitational interaction comes directly from the universality of entanglement- it is not possible to have stress-energy that doesn’t source the gravitational field because it is not possible to have degrees of freedom that don’t contribute to entanglement entropy.”

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1405.2933.pdf

Universality of Gravity from Entanglement


RE final version of gravity: gravitons are aether absorbing wormholes connected by quantum entanglement, gravity is not attractive.

FET gravity: gravitons are aether absorbing wormholes connected by quantum entanglement, gravity is not attractive.

A personal disaster for jackblack and his ilk.

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2024, 01:38:40 PM »
The final version of the RE gravity is actually what FET describes as being the mechanism for gravity.




Asked you several questions.


 aether

What is aether, and how does it work if you don’t believe in the fundamental force of gravity.  Gravity that is used to accurately and reliable calculate trajectories of bullets.  How would you replace gravity with aether, and would it increase the accuracy of modeling trajectories of bullets.

Hey.  Asked you a question..

Telluric currents (ether, gravitational/electromagnetic waves) propagate like this, in double helix/torsion fashion:



Beta radiation is actual electrons being emitted. Let’s take it to something real. An example is the radioactive decay of Strontium-90 which is a beta (electron) emitter. 

If Strontium 90 creates a field of electrons why isn’t it a gravitons/gravity generator?

But it does beg the question what keeps the sun aloft with the moon on a flat earth?  Where the sun is a physical object that emits radiation and light that are physically blocked by a moon during a solar eclipse?  🤔


Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2024, 01:41:09 PM »

A personal disaster for jackblack and his ilk.

How?  You can’t even explain how it would replace gravity to more accurately and better predict something like bullet trajectories? 

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sandokhan

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2024, 02:15:29 PM »
Bullet trajectories is small fry. Let's go for the big prize: long range artillery ballistics.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2029817#msg2029817 (introduction)

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2032069#msg2032069 (FE and RE formulas)

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2106204#msg2106204 (conclusions)

I am the only FE who has ever dared to address the long distance artillery topic, no one else had been able to explain this within FET.


Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2024, 06:46:20 PM »
Bullet trajectories is small fry. Let's go for the big prize: long range artillery ballistics.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2029817#msg2029817 (introduction)

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2032069#msg2032069 (FE and RE formulas)

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2106204#msg2106204 (conclusions)

I am the only FE who has ever dared to address the long distance artillery topic, no one else had been able to explain this within FET.

Big fry for you would be explaining the mechanism behind the gravitational attraction between a drop of ocean water and a planetary iron core. (With diagrams) Your gravitons creating wormholes which suck in aether, explains nothing, pal.

I've noticed keeping explanations simple is not in your repertoire, is it, sandykhun? You really are an expert flat earther at attempting to waste the scientific reader's time by causing a ton of reading just to understand what the fuck you are attempting to argue. I tip my hat to you.

Confucius say, woman who fall asleep on beach will wake up with a sandokhan. What a lucky woman, ey? Just like anyone who wakes up to find one of your word salad riddles - an irritation likely to cause an unpleasant rash.


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JackBlack

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2024, 01:05:25 AM »
FET gravity: gravitons are aether absorbing wormholes connected by quantum entanglement, gravity is not attractive.

A personal disaster for jackblack and his ilk.
And more dishonest BS.

It is a disaster FOR YOU!
You bitch and moan about the RE model, claiming there are faults, but the garbage you provide is worse.

Again, we have evidence of gravity, of mass attracting mass.
It doesn't matter what BS you want to dress that up in, that means water can stay on a round Earth.
Meanwhile, you have no explanation for the sun, or how your BS magically allows a flat Earth.

You make BS appeals to authority, even though these experts agree Earth is round.

Your dishonest demands for a mechanism are shown to be dishonest BS when you refuse to provide a mechanism for your BS.
What BS mechanism is there for your BS wormholes to be connected by BS quantum entanglement?
What BS mechanism is there for your BS wormholes to absorb your BS aether?
What BS mechanism is there for your BS wormholes absorbing your BS aether to move things?

You have no mechanism. You have a collection of BS that you throw together.

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2024, 01:43:14 AM »
Bullet trajectories is small fry. Let's go for the big prize: long range artillery ballistics.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2029817#msg2029817 (introduction)

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2032069#msg2032069 (FE and RE formulas)

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2106204#msg2106204 (conclusions)

I am the only FE who has ever dared to address the long distance artillery topic, no one else had been able to explain this within FET.


So.  So.  You can’t use it to explain bullet trajectories.  You can only flack the thread.


So?  What keeps the wormholes from sucking up or clumping up all the aether? 


Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2024, 01:44:58 AM »

 Your gravitons creating wormholes which suck in aether, explains nothing, pal.



Damn you beat me to it…


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sandokhan

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2024, 03:08:31 AM »
From now on, I will be using only your RE physicists' words to describe gravity. Remember, these are 100% dedicated heliocentrists.

Abhay Ashtekar, Carlo Rovelli and Lee Smolin

The “reality conditions” are realized by an inner product that is chiral asymmetric, resulting in a chiral asymmetric ordering for the Hamiltonian, and, in an asymmetric description of the left and right handed gravitons.

Julian Sonner, a senior postdoc in MIT’s Laboratory for Nuclear Science and Center for Theoretical Physics, has published his results in the journal Physical Review Letters, where it appears together with a related paper by Kristan Jensen of the University of Victoria and Andreas Karch of the University of Washington.

The tangled web that is gravity

He found that what emerged was a wormhole connecting the two entangled quarks, implying that the creation of quarks simultaneously creates a wormhole. More fundamentally, he says, gravity itself may be a result of entanglement. What’s more, the universe’s geometry as described by classical gravity may be a consequence of entanglement—pairs of particles strung together by tunneling wormholes.

Brian Swinglea and Mark Van Raamsdonk

Department of Physics, Harvard University
Department of Physics and Astronomy,University of British Columbia

The deepest connection between gravity and quantum entanglement:

“The universality of the gravitational interaction comes directly from the universality of entanglement- it is not possible to have stress-energy that doesn’t source the gravitational field because it is not possible to have degrees of freedom that don’t contribute to entanglement entropy.”


What are you going to do now, deny your own brightest RE scientists?

Steve Lamoreaux has performed experiments, in full vacuum, at Yale University, using two plates, which were pushed towards one another, no attractive gravity.


The best physicists from MIT, Harvard are telling you that gravitons are connected by quantum entanglement (a superluminal highway) through wormholes which absorb aether (the only stable, working wormhole model).


Now, I have published the correct description for the mechanism years ago, and it is only in the last couple of years that physicists have begun to realize that I was right.

These are my quotes:

All subquarks, bosons and antibosons are connected by gray wormholes (receptive/emissive) created by the counter-rotating tetrahedrons (one is a shadow of the other) located in the center of the pyramidion. (June 2020)

All gravitons are distinct wormholes and are connected by a hyperspace which manifests itself in the very center of the gray wormhole. In the center of the wormhole is the mechanism which provides the constant torque necessary for the wormhole to rotate at very high speeds. Without that torque being applied constantly, all wormholes would collapse instantly, there would be no atoms, no visible matter. All gravitons/antigravitons consist of billions of bosons/antibosons.

The torque is being provided by the counter-rotating tetrahedrons (one is the shadow of the other) to be found in the center of the boson/antiboson:

https://www.reunitingall.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/tetaedro-estrella.gif

A constant source of acoustic power is needed to keep the counter-rotating tetrahedrons spin at a tremendous speed: each tetrahedron has imbedded in itself an acoustic turbine in the shape of a swastika. One swastika is emissive, the other one is receptive.

Acoustic turbines were introduced in the 19th century, for the first time:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Armen_Sarvazyan/publication/46034486/figure/fig1/AS:377905155723265@1467111018623/Acoustic-turbine-of-V-Dvorak-and-A-Mayer-Koenig-1889.png

In the center of the two counter-propagating tetrahedrons we find the source of the sound which is being emitted and the connection to the hyperspace.

The energy levels of the boson are created by four counter-propagating Riemann zeta function waves on two single segments which are to be found to the left, respectively to the right, of the counter-rotating tetrahedrons:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2006301#msg2006301

The zeros of the zeta function constitute a fractal applied to those two segments.

At that sub Planck scale, mathematics becomes physics, and physics merges with mathematics. (June 2020)


This paper was just published last year:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.03707.pdf

Do a search with "riemann", "zeta", "Gutzweiller", "gluing", "wormhole".

The author presents the Cotler-Jensen wormhole (an abstract or virtual version of the Ellis wormhole) and then states that the actual wormhole is constructed/glued together by the Riemann zeta phase function. He even obtains a trace formula similar to the Gutzweiller trace formula which features the Riemann zeta zeros.

Here is another paper:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.03081.pdf

Ellis drainhole solution in Einstein-Æther gravity and the axial gravitational quasinormal modes

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2024, 03:17:17 AM »
From now on,

Anyway. If your done flacking this thread. 

 More in line with this thread and the spirit of the opening post.

Why have amateur high altitude balloonists with equipment shown constantly the distance to the horizon vs gain in altitude is constant with a spherical earth, and not a horizon for a flat plane earth with an even higher ice wall? 

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JackBlack

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2024, 03:31:08 AM »
From now on, I will be using only your RE physicists' words to describe gravity.
i.e. you will accept what people who think Earth is round say?
So you accept that Earth is round?

Because remember, the problem with your BS is that you were demanding a mechanism, while you refuse to provide one yourself.

Care to provide the mechanism?
If not, care to stop with the pathetic BS and instead address the sun?

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sandokhan

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Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2024, 04:51:46 AM »
Don't you just love this? The final version of the RE concept of gravity is... the gravitational theory from FE. Amazing!

For those who are dreaming about balloons, they must explain this first:

"The ingredients of the air—oxygen, nitrogen, argon and other gases—though not in a compound but in a mixture, are found in equal proportions at various levels of the atmosphere despite great differences in specific weights. The explanation accepted in science is this: “Swift winds keep the gases thoroughly mixed, so that except for water-vapor the composition of the atmosphere is the same throughout the troposphere to a high degree of approximation.”  This explanation cannot be true. If it were true, then the moment the wind subsides, the nitrogen should stream upward, and the oxygen should drop, preceded by the argon. If winds are caused by a difference in weight between warm and cold air, the difference in weight between heavy gases high in the atmosphere and light gases at the lower levels should create storms, which would subside only after they had carried each gas to its natural place in accordance with its gravity or specific weight. But nothing of the kind happens.

When some aviators expressed the belief that “pockets of noxious gas” are in the air, the scientists replied:

“There are no ‘pockets of noxious gas.’ No single gas, and no other likely mixture of gases, has, at ordinary temperatures and pressures, the same density as atmospheric air. Therefore, a pocket of foreign gas in that atmosphere would almost certainly either bob up like a balloon, or sink like a stone in water.”

Why, then, do not the atmospheric gases separate and stay apart in accordance with the specific gravities?

Ozone, though heavier than oxygen, is absent in the lower layers of the atmosphere, is present in the upper layers, and is not subject to the “mixing effect of the wind.” The presence of ozone high in the atmosphere suggests that oxygen must be still higher: “As oxygen is less dense than ozone, it will tend to rise to even greater heights.” Nowhere is it asked why ozone does not descend of its own weight or at least why it is not mixed by the wind with other gases."

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2024, 05:54:49 AM »
Don't you just love this?


You keep trying to derail this thread?

Asked you a simple question.

More in line with this thread and the spirit of the opening post.

Why have amateur high altitude balloonists with equipment shown constantly the distance to the horizon vs gain in altitude is constant with a spherical earth, and not a horizon for a flat plane earth with an even higher ice wall?

Also….

Did you ever take the time and post a sketch of how a solar and lunar eclipse would work on a flat earth.


I know.  You don’t like these simple things that easily disproves flat earth.  You would rather derail threads with long winded mealy mouth lies to create an illusion of wiggle room when all evidence proves the Heliocentric solar system. 

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2024, 06:09:51 AM »

 gases—

Whose Molecules have kinetic energy and motion due to temperature.  And most gasses in the atmosphere have very similar molecular weights.


Quote
Entropy of Mixing

A gas will always flow into a newly available volume and does so because its molecules are rapidly bouncing off one another and hitting the walls of their container, readily moving into a new allowable space. It follows from the second law of thermodynamics that a process will occur in the direction towards a more probable state. In terms of entropy, this can be expressed as a system going from a state of lesser probability (less microstates) towards a state of higher probability (more microstates). This corresponds to increasing the W in the equation S=kBlnW.

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Supplemental_Modules_(Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry)/Thermodynamics/Ideal_Systems/Entropy_of_Mixing


Quote
The atomic / molecular weights are:
Nitrogen: 14.0067 x 2 = 28.0134 g/mol (remember it is
N2)

Oxygen: 15.9994 x 2 = 31.9988 g/mol (remember it is 02)

Argon: 39.948 g/mol
Carbon dioxide: 44.01 g /mol


https://socratic.org/questions/what-is-the-molecular-weight-of-air

I have worked in enclosed areas where R-114 refrigerant settling out in low areas like a bilge was a concern.  But O2 at 31.9988 g/mol vs R-114 at 170.92 g/mol. 


« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 06:11:36 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2024, 06:16:37 AM »

 then the moment the wind subsides,

When does the atmosphere ever “stop” when there is always air rising, cooling, sinking?  Or cooling off on the night side, and sinking?  Along with gases where their own molecules are in constant kinetic motion. 

*

JackBlack

  • 21900
Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2024, 12:54:12 PM »
Don't you just love this?
Your continued spamming? No. What is there to love about it?

You can't defend your fantasy, so you just keep spouting BS.
When one pile of BS fails, you move on to the next.

You cannot show any fault with the RE model, so you bitch and moan about the lack of a mechanism, while refusing to provide a better alternative.

Look at you now. Can't defend that steaming pile of BS, so you flee to other BS.

How about you stop with all the BS and try explaining how the sun magically vanishes in your fantasy?

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2024, 05:32:19 PM »
Don't you just love this? The final version of the RE concept of gravity is... the gravitational theory from FE. Amazing!

For those who are dreaming about balloons, they must explain this first:

"The ingredients of the air—oxygen, nitrogen, argon and other gases—though not in a compound but in a mixture, are found in equal proportions at various levels of the atmosphere despite great differences in specific weights. The explanation accepted in science is this: “Swift winds keep the gases thoroughly mixed, so that except for water-vapor the composition of the atmosphere is the same throughout the troposphere to a high degree of approximation.”  This explanation cannot be true. If it were true, then the moment the wind subsides, the nitrogen should stream upward, and the oxygen should drop, preceded by the argon. If winds are caused by a difference in weight between warm and cold air, the difference in weight between heavy gases high in the atmosphere and light gases at the lower levels should create storms, which would subside only after they had carried each gas to its natural place in accordance with its gravity or specific weight. But nothing of the kind happens.

When some aviators expressed the belief that “pockets of noxious gas” are in the air, the scientists replied:

“There are no ‘pockets of noxious gas.’ No single gas, and no other likely mixture of gases, has, at ordinary temperatures and pressures, the same density as atmospheric air. Therefore, a pocket of foreign gas in that atmosphere would almost certainly either bob up like a balloon, or sink like a stone in water.”

Why, then, do not the atmospheric gases separate and stay apart in accordance with the specific gravities?

Ozone, though heavier than oxygen, is absent in the lower layers of the atmosphere, is present in the upper layers, and is not subject to the “mixing effect of the wind.” The presence of ozone high in the atmosphere suggests that oxygen must be still higher: “As oxygen is less dense than ozone, it will tend to rise to even greater heights.” Nowhere is it asked why ozone does not descend of its own weight or at least why it is not mixed by the wind with other gases."

I do love this! This is educational and vital to my flat earth thesis! You are educating the forum on how to pretend to answer a question with so many words that don't answer the question, but the reader doesn't know that, until the reader has read all those words to find out. Brilliant!!!

Do you have a formula for the word count of one of your posts to how many minutes of a person's life who reads said post, you have just wasted?

At a guess, how many days of Jack Black's life do you think you have robbed from him?

Only an evil genius such as yourself, could have devised a model for robbing the time of the Globe earth enthusiast and flat earth debunker. You are deserving of an award! The other genius of your agenda, is there is no offence in any country for wasting a person's time.

It is most definitely a form of fraud, but your defence is likely that you are never wasting a person's time, you are educating them in scientific history, jargon, and facts and figures.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 05:41:36 PM by Smoke Machine »

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2024, 10:21:47 PM »
Sandokan,
gravity is understood as a bending of spacetime because of existing masses. It is an intrinsic property of spacetime. The object follows it's path in spacetime, and because of the bending, it deviates from a straight line and seems like it is attracted to the mass.
On the other hand, can you explain the process that is constantly excellerating earth  since it's existence? One would need an enormous amount of energy for that. Where does it come from? Is sun being excellerated in the same way? What about the stars? Are they accelerated the same way or will we finally fly past them?

Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2024, 04:44:13 PM »
Oh yes, if earth is constantly accelerating, it will reach the speed of light, which would limit it. And to keep accelerating takes increasing amounts of energy, the closer you get to the speed of light, so even being able to approach it would be a challenge.

If it is (somehow) finally approached, time would effectively stop for all people.


Image source: https://space.stackexchange.com/a/5016
~~~^.^~~~
I am bulmabriefs144, Smasher of Testicles.  You see? Titles are ridiculous.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 49896
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2024, 04:58:26 PM »
All motion is relative.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

?

Cameron 1964

  • 134
  • On the run from the Illuminati
Re: The model is all that matters...
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2024, 07:09:14 PM »
I'll agree with you only when somebody else (other than me) will present the following: the algorithm for the zeta zeros (without using mathematical analysis), and thus solve the Riemann hypothesis for good; as a good measure on top of that to invent a new formula for the logarithm using only the square root function. It ain't gonna happen. Until then, I am better than they are, you should know this by now. Talk to any high-ranking mathematician and show them my algorithm, they'll slap your face for free for having doubted me.

Since you don't know much about gravity in general you might be surprised to find out that the mechanism for gravity (sorry, it is not attractive) has been put forth, and all physicists agree on that.

Pay attention.

Gravity is a wormhole in the center of a right-handed graviton which absorbs aether.

Got it?

In 1969, Dr. H.G. Ellis published his famous paper in which he had proved that the only working model of an wormhole is that which absorbs aether. Imagine trying to publish a paper whose title includes the word "ether drainhole" in 1969 in the most famous and prestigious journal of mathematical physics in the world. It took four years for the peer-reviewers to verify each and every equation, since they could not believe it could be true, and finally, in 1973, his paper was published in the Journal of Mathematical Physics:

Ether flow through a drainhole: A particle model in general relativity
Journal of Mathematical Physics. 14: 104–118

http://euclid.colorado.edu/~ellis/RelativityPapers/EtFlThDrPaMoGeRe.pdf

The weight of an object is given by the amount of aether which can be absorbed.

One cannot have quantum gravity without particles, unless a non perturbative observable can be defined in their place

"Absence of particles means absence of Poincare invariance, no standard Fock space.

Particle physics is defined by local perturbative quantum field theory (Poincare groups).

However, Planck level physics is governed by general covariance.

That is why quantum gravity must be defined in terms of loops/knots.

Knot theory is the physical theory that classifies the independent physical states of the quantum field.

Genuine quantum gravitational physics is non perturbative.

General relativity forced in the quantum perturbative framework doesn't work."

Dr. Carlo Rovelli
Are knots quantum states of spacetime?
Knots, Topology And Quantum Field Theory (pg. 51-69)

A graviton is a string with closed loops.


None other than the greatest mathematician of all time, B. Riemann, had said this about gravity:

B. Riemann stated in 1853 that "gravitational aether sinks toward massive objects where it is absorbed, at a rate proportional to their mass, and is then emitted into another spatial dimension".


Quantum Gravity is not a quantization of the spacetime coordinates, metric.....If this were the case, one would have had quantized the spacetime coordinates long ago. In String Theory, from the two-dim world sheet point of view , the spacetime coordinates are nothing but a finite number of scalar fields whose quantization is essentially trivial by selecting the conformal or orthonormal gauge. The same arguments applies with the ( linearized ) spin two graviton. Quantum Gravity it is something much deeper than the naive notion of coordinates and gravitons. It is something that doesn’t need any spacetime background nor metrics whatsoever. Morever, it involves something that disposes of the ill-conceived notion of having a fixed dimension. The classical spacetime that we perceive with our senses is just a long distance averaging effect associated with a quantum network of processeses of a deeper underlying Quantum Universe. To merge Quantum Mechanics with Relativity it is necessary to enlarge the Einsteinian view of Relativity to a New Relativity Principle.


Quantum entanglement is the needle that stitches together the cosmic zero point energy tapestry.

All subquarks, bosons and antibosons are connected by gray wormholes (receptive/emissive) created by the counter-rotating tetrahedrons (one is a shadow of the other) located in the center of the pyramidion.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1005.3035.pdf

Building up spacetime with quantum entanglement


https://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.08444.pdf

Recovering Geometry from Bulk Entanglement

A version of the ER=EPR conjecture is recovered, in that perturbations that entangle distant parts of the emergent geometry generate a configuration that may be considered as a highly quantum wormhole.


https://www.quantamagazine.org/black-holes-prove-that-anti-de-sitter-space-time-is-unstable-20200511/ (Horava-Lifshitz ether model wormhole requires anti de-Sitter space)


https://arxiv.org/pdf/1409.1503.pdf

Rotating Ellis Wormholes in Four Dimensions


https://arxiv.org/pdf/1309.2448.pdf

Rotating Wormholes in Five Dimensions


https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.02143.pdf

Wormholes Immersed in Rotating Matter

We here add a new twist to this quest by immersing the wormhole throat inside rotating matter, which we take as composed of a complex boson field, since this allows for the possibility to impose rotation on the bosonic field by the choice of an appropriate ansatz.


https://arxiv.org/pdf/1608.05253.pdf

Geometry of Spinning Ellis Wormholes


https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0508117.pdf

Rotating Scalar Field Wormhole


https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0502099.pdf

Phantom energy traversable wormholes


Julian Sonner, a senior postdoc in MIT’s Laboratory for Nuclear Science and Center for Theoretical Physics, has published his results in the journal Physical Review Letters, where it appears together with a related paper by Kristan Jensen of the University of Victoria and Andreas Karch of the University of Washington.

The tangled web that is gravity

He found that what emerged was a wormhole connecting the two entangled quarks, implying that the creation of quarks simultaneously creates a wormhole. More fundamentally, he says, gravity itself may be a result of entanglement. What’s more, the universe’s geometry as described by classical gravity may be a consequence of entanglement—pairs of particles strung together by tunneling wormholes.




http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0905/0905.1667.pdf

A Scenario for Strong Gravity in Particle Physics

At the Planck scale it may well be impossible to disentangle black holes from elementary particles.

G. ‘t Hooft, On the quantum structure of a black hole, Nucl. Phys. B256 , 727 (1985)

We suggest that the behavior of these extreme dilaton black holes….can reasonably be interpreted as the holes doing their best to behave like normal elementary particles.

All particles may be varying forms of stabilized black holes.


https://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-th/9202014.pdf

Black Holes as Elementary Particles


https://mappingignorance.org/2013/11/22/entangled-through-a-wormhole/


https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F1-4020-4339-2_6



The deepest connection between gravity and quantum entanglement:

“The universality of the gravitational interaction comes directly from the universality of entanglement- it is not possible to have stress-energy that doesn’t source the gravitational field because it is not possible to have degrees of freedom that don’t contribute to entanglement entropy.”


https://arxiv.org/pdf/1405.2933.pdf

Universality of Gravity from Entanglement


At this point you might ask, what about other wormhole models? They are not stable, only the Ellis wormhole is a true working model.

Einstein-Gauss-Bonnet wormholes

EGB wormhole model: dilaton and electrovacuum.

The EdGB is unstable.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1804.11170.pdf

The electrovacuum has huge issues with it as well.
 
The causality constraints of higher curvature models were studied, and it was shown in
particular that a theory such as EGB has to be supplemented with massive higher-spin fields in order to be free of causality problems. Causal structure of Einstein-Gauss-Bonnet (EGB) theory has also been studied in [29,30], where different notions closely connected to causality are studied in detail, such as the relation between Killing horizons and characteristic hypersurfaces, hyperbolicity in the near horizon regions.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.6737.pdf


Kaluza-Klein wormholes

https://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.59.064018

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/9807086.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1309.1320.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-th/9909102.pdf

Aether compactification of the Kaluza-Klein dimensions:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/0802.0521.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20150319104103/bourabai.ru/winter/relativ.htm (Planck plasma)

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1920865#msg1920865 (Kaluza-Klein particles, Planck ether, two consecutive messages)

Kaluza-Klein wormholes must use ether.


Conformal Weyl gravity wormholes

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1510.05054.pdf

https://www.arxiv-vanity.com/papers/0801.4401/

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.04145.pdf

Weyl ether:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2182319#msg2182319

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1608.00285.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.06355.pdf


Palatini f(R,T) wormholes

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0703132.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/0712.1141.pdf


Cartan wormholes

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/9802046.pdf

We also discuss wormhole throats in the presence of fully antisymmetric torsion and find that the energy condition violations cannot be dumped into the torsion degrees of freedom.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/9901020.pdf

The Cartan torsion theory is a dynamical degenerate case of the more general Poincare gauge theory of gravity. The NEC would always have to be violated for such a specific torsion even in the more general Poincare gauge theory of gravity.

The resulting forces from the Einstein-Cartain torsion theory are some 27 orders of magnitude smaller than the gravitational effects of GR. Further, the EC theory applies to static field geometries around rotating objects.

Dynamical Ricci torsion is some 21 to 22 orders of magnitude larger than EC torsion.


Ricci flow wormholes

https://arxiv.org/pdf/0809.0957.pdf

Spacetime foam = zero point energy = ether

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1012/1012.5264.pdf



Do not ever doubt that I am very good at what I do.

So you concur, gravity exists and holds water onto the surface of the earth.
Thanks for the physics lessons and confirmation of gravity&s existence.👍
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.