Whenever any of those 'astronomers' have claimed to see something that nobody has ever seen, with any of our instruments, because only THEY have claimed to see these things, through only THEIR instruments, and nobody else HAS those same instruments as they have, of course, it must be CONFIRMED by others, seeing through THEIR instruments, or it is complete BS, and is NOT 'science', at all.
Yep. That's how science works. We've been going through a whole thing recently where labs are unable to replicate famous experiments. In the field of astronomy, you have Vulcan. One guy saw it with his instruments, but then no one else could see it with theirs, so it was declared false. People don't doubt the stars because they can see them with their own telescopes.
Nobody doubts every star above Earth exists, we have seen them by eye and/or OUR OWN instruments, which is easily validated by anyone who DID doubt some star exists, by seeing it themselves, by eye or by instruments.
The whole problem your side doesn't understand, or makes up excuses for, or hides from addressing, among other tactics....
When these liars, which you inexplicably believe are all honorable 'scientists', who NEVER lie, or hide the truth...make all sorts of claims, about seeing something in 'deepest space', through instruments that NOBODY ELSE HAS, or ever COULD PURCHASE - NOT because some of us could not AFFORD them, or have the same companies who built THEIR instruments, have the same instruments and OWN and USE them, in the same way....
No, that's not why nobody else has the same instruments, or have massive areas of land to put them on, or have a hill to prop them atop, or have millions to pay for one....
Even if we COULD buy the same instruments those liars have, I'm sure they'd say it requires technical knowledge, years of training, blah blah blah, before someone can operate and use these very complicated instruments 'properly', and must also have extensive knowledge of the atmosphere, and the stars, and how they interact with each other, and that's just off the top of my head.
Even having the very SAME instruments, and ideal areas to put them, wouldn't be enough for your side, it's about your denial of truth, and proof, it always HAS been, for your side.
And THAT is why, their entire 'careers' are simply to make claims, without any proof, any independent confirmation of those claims, in any way, since this so-called 'field of science' was spewed forth into existence, which has NEVER been a true, valid science, and in fact, is the very OPPOSITE of a valid, actual science.
Just because it exists, fools the masses as being a science, or trained monkeys teach it in schools, that does NOT, in any way, mean it IS an actual, valid science.
I would gladly debate that it is not a valid science, as long as it's an honest, open debate. Without any BS tactics, excuses, etc.
All of those here, who believe that astronomy is a valid science, are either misguided, convinced by the very few parts that ARE true, because they aren't relevant to their fairy tale story, at least, when they MADE those claims, like when they spewed on about how Saturn had first appeared to be virtually motionless, and could see NO MOVEMENT AT ALL, of Saturn....
Until they noticed, by taking multiple images of Saturn, over a span of time, over hours, after they claimed to see some 'features' of Saturn, after they'd already claimed to see an 'atmosphere' existing on Saturn, without any proof, before that.
There's so many BS claims made, just for this, to put it all in exact timeline is probably impossible, anyway.
So a claim made about seeing Saturn as MOTIONLESS, by claiming they LATER noticed, with their IMAGES, over the hours, showed some sort of 'features' of Saturn, or Saturn's 'atmosphere', HAD MOVED TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF SATURN!
And they also claimed to see these 'features' steadily, constantly move, to the right, go out of sight on the other side, appear once again on the left side, and finally, return to it's original position.
They kept making more and more claims, of Saturn as a SLOWLY rotating 'planet', because if they claimed Saturn always looked motionless, when it was seen, but found out, over a span of time, in their IMAGES, it actually DID move, and claimed to have TIMED one complete ROTATION of Saturn, which took 9.6 hours or so, and this claim has RECENTLY been said, by more liars, at NASA, to be a VERY CLOSE ESTIMATE of Saturn's 'actual rotation time'!
However, NASA said they found that out, with their 'space probes', NOT using any sort of telescopes on Earth! So they made up new BS, which nobody could ever confirm AT ALL, but it doesn't matter, since it's based on the previous BS claims, made centuries ago.
Anyone here who has seen videos of Saturn, close up, have seen Saturn is ALWAYS in motion, or, if you prefer, it 'appears' to be in constant motion, which means the SAME THING IS SEEN - that Saturn is, or appears to be, in constant, endless motion, and it has ALWAYS been seen that way, and is seen in every video of Saturn, close up.
So their claims about seeing Saturn as motionless, until they saw it over hours, and saw 'features' of it's 'atmosphere', had moved over to the right side, and claimed to know it rotated once every 9.6 hours......a claim that NASA said was 'very close to it's actual rotation time'...
Are clearly, obviously, proven to be a pack of lies, and you know it, whether you can ever admit it or not, you still know these are lies, or cannot accept it, or live in denial of reality.
Why can't you find videos showing what THEY claimed to see of Saturn?
They didn't see Saturn once, or 20 times, or one night, or 20 nights, or for a minute, or for 20 minutes, and then make all of these claims, you must realize at least THAT much, don't you?
Of course not. They would have to observe Saturn for YEARS, night after night, and take images over hours, again and again and again, to 'know' it's speed of rotation, to the very SECOND!
You're last, most ridiculous answer to this indisputible proof that they are all LIARS, is to say that they used 'different telescopes' than we have today, and therefore, I must prove that they did NOT see what they've claimed to see, of viewing Saturn as if it were MOTIONLESS, and that one claim, ALONE, is absolutely proven, without any doubt, as a LIE.....
I have proven it is a lie, with all the videos showing it in constant, endless motion, whether in real motion, or apparent motion, we see it in motion, and ALWAYS see it in motion, it always APPEARS to be in motion, and you have no excuse for your bunch of liars, we both know that.
So of course, you make a ridiculous, nonsensical argument about having different telescopes than we have today, which do not exist, or are used, today.
No, I already HAVE proven my claim is true, proven that they were, and still are, a pack of liars. There are THOUSANDS of different instruments we have today, which, if we used them all to see Saturn up close, would ALL see Saturn, in constant, endless motion, same as all the rest have shown.
THAT is the ONLY proof that exists, and it is consistent, and conclusive proof, that Saturn is in constant, endless motion, or appears to be in constant, endless motion, if you prefer.
Yet here you go, making up some BS argument that is so ridiculous, so brutally absurd, which only shows that you are nothing but a puppet, a defender, of those liars, for whatever reason, or reasons, I don't know, or care to know.
YOU have to show proof, that supports your liars, not me, who HAS all the proof, showing they were, and are, liars. about Saturn.