Why can't space travel exist on FE?

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Sculder

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2013, 07:23:49 AM »
Air Canada flight AC2133 from Honolulu to Sydney direct left 15 minutes late and is scheduled to land 40 minutes late, making its aggregate flight length 25 minutes longer or 8hrs 20 minutes total. On a straight line route from Honolulu to Sydney on your map, which would cross North America and Europe, I would conservatively estimate it crosses 70% of the Earth's circumference (if you provide a scale for your map, I will happily provide a more accurate number), making this a 28,000km flight yielding an average velocity of approximately 3,300km/h.

I will update you with the landing time.

I was thinking of doing some calculations myself showing how, according to that FE map, some airline routes would have to be flown at supersonic speeds to reach their destination anywhere near the scheduled time. But having no scale on that map put me off it.

However if your estimate is good, I'd also add that, as far as I know, no airliner has a range of 28000km, so no airliner could do a 28000km flight without stopping for fuel.

For the record, Air Canada 2133 uses a Boeing 777-200LR; the standard range is cited for it is some 17,500km. A Boeing 777-200LR holds the record flight distance for a non-stop airline flight: On November 10, 2005, the first −200LR set a record for the longest non-stop flight of a passenger airliner by flying 11,664 nautical miles (21,602 km), eastward from Hong Kong to London. That's still far short of the 28000km.

Edit: another thing - At no point does Air Canada 2133, in its route from Honolulu to Sydney, fly over North America, the Atlantic, or to the south of Africa. It also flies almost entirely over water. This easily shows that it's route is not a straight line on that map. So the flight distance should be even greater than your estimate. So would the average velocity.

Let's recap: Boeing is secretly hiding the fact their 777-200LR has a huge range, the kind of range strategic bombers can achieve only through multiple air refuels, and that it has a speed that can rival or exceed that of an SR-71 Blackbird, supposedly the fastest air-breathing jet ever made. Wooo, go Boeing!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 07:50:21 AM by Sculder »
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #91 on: March 29, 2013, 07:40:55 AM »
Air Canada flight AC2133 from Honolulu to Sydney direct left 15 minutes late and is scheduled to land 40 minutes late, making its aggregate flight length 25 minutes longer or 8hrs 20 minutes total. On a straight line route from Honolulu to Sydney on your map, which would cross North America and Europe, I would conservatively estimate it crosses 70% of the Earth's circumference (if you provide a scale for your map, I will happily provide a more accurate number), making this a 28,000km flight yielding an average velocity of approximately 3,300km/h.

I will update you with the landing time.

I was thinking of doing some calculations myself showing how, according to that FE map, some airline routes would have to be flown at supersonic speeds to reach their destination anywhere near the scheduled time. But having no scale on that map put me off it.

However if your estimate is good, I'd also add that, as far as I know, no airliner has a range of 28000km, so no airliner could do a 28000km flight without stopping for fuel.

For the record, Air Canada 2133 uses a Boeing 777-200LR; the standard range is cited for it is some 17,500km. A Boeing 777-200LR holds the record flight distance for a non-stop airline flight: On November 10, 2005, the first −200LR set a record for the longest non-stop flight of a passenger airliner by flying 11,664 nautical miles (21,602 km), eastward from Hong Kong to London. That's still far short of the 28000km.

Do the few direct flights to Australia use any jet streams to reach its destination? Pilots regularly use jet streams on international flights to save on time and fuel. Jetstreams can reach 400 mph, which is just a bit less than the speed planes travel without jet streams.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 07:47:01 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #92 on: March 29, 2013, 07:46:13 AM »
Obviously that and OMG, we can't navigate for s***!

The pilots would be traveling in the same south-western direction and the same longitudes to reach Australia.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 08:04:51 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Sculder

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #93 on: March 29, 2013, 08:08:01 AM »
905km/h the cruising speed of a 777-200LR. 644km/h the quoted speed of the jet steam (400mph). Assuming jet streams are always this fast and they follow the flight path from Honolulu to Sydney. Also assuming jet streams of 640km/h reverse direction to accommodate return flights on the same flight path.

905 + 644 = 1549
1549<3300

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jason_85

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2013, 08:08:50 AM »
The sun does not have to be visible for 24 hours straight to see the sun at midnight

Obvious and irrelevant. I am and always was talking about the point at which the sun is farthest / closest to the state of Tasmania. You brought the midnight sun into it, not me. It's a moot point though because it is always dark in Tasmania at midnight, regardless of the time of year.

Daylight savings time does not correlate 12pm with the sun directly overhead and 12am with the sun directly opposite.

Obvious, but interesting; what do you mean by directly opposite to overhead?
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markjo

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #95 on: March 29, 2013, 10:06:24 AM »
Do the few direct flights to Australia use any jet streams to reach its destination? Pilots regularly use jet streams on international flights to save on time and fuel. Jetstreams can reach 400 mph, which is just a bit less than the speed planes travel without jet streams.
Jet streams travel primarily east.  Flights from the US to Australia travel primarily southwest.  In other words, the jet streams are traveling the wrong way to help.
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Rama Set

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #96 on: March 29, 2013, 10:36:33 AM »
So you did not even read the blog?

"Unfortunately, there are no populated areas near the Antarctic circle where the sun is visible 24 hours a day"

She is suggesting Antarctic cruises to see the midnight sun in the Southern Hemisphere.

How does that sentence imply that it's impossible to view the sun at midnight in Tasmania?

Tasmania is a populated area.

It is possible to see the sun at midnight, yet not have the sun be visible for 24 hours of the day.

This is an equivocation. We are talking about the Midnight Sun, a phrase meaning the phenomenon of the sun remaining in the sky for the summer months. We are not talking about a sun at midnight. This was made clear by the use of the phrase "the Midnight Sun" and the link to the Wikipedia article defining and refining the definition of the phenomena.

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You still have not presented evidence that Tasmania does not receive a Midnight Sun

First of all, I shouldn't have to, because I, like the millions of others who live in Australia know that Australian states do not experience the midnight sun. This should be enough to place the onus on you in any reasonable conversation. Since this is not a reasonable conversation, here is a picture of the antarctic circle, drawn on a world map. The antarctic circle is at 66 degrees south of the equator, and defines the point south of which a midnight sun is seen. If you are not familiar with this, here is the wikipedia article on the midnight sun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_sun it corroborates what I have just said. Tasmania is at Tasmania just over 40 degrees south of the equator (http://www.distancesfrom.com/au/tasmania-latitude-longitude-tasmania-latitude-tasmania-longitude/LatLongHistory/389166.aspx). Since 40 degrees is less than 66 degrees, we can state that Tasmania is outside the antarctic circle.

The sun does not have to be visible for 24 hours straight to see the sun at midnight. Daylight savings time does not correlate 12pm with the sun directly overhead and 12am with the sun directly opposite.

Again equivocating on Midnight Sun.
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markjo

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #97 on: March 29, 2013, 10:43:20 AM »
So you did not even read the blog?

"Unfortunately, there are no populated areas near the Antarctic circle where the sun is visible 24 hours a day"

She is suggesting Antarctic cruises to see the midnight sun in the Southern Hemisphere.

How does that sentence imply that it's impossible to view the sun at midnight in Tasmania?

Have you personally been to Tasmania and witnessed the sun being visible at midnight?  We all know how you are about wanting RE'ers to personally verify their claims, so I think that fair is fair.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Homesick Martian

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #98 on: March 29, 2013, 11:12:50 AM »
I'm still most impressed by the astonishing case of Kiribati!

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Rama Set

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #99 on: March 29, 2013, 03:09:51 PM »
So you did not even read the blog?

"Unfortunately, there are no populated areas near the Antarctic circle where the sun is visible 24 hours a day"

She is suggesting Antarctic cruises to see the midnight sun in the Southern Hemisphere.

How does that sentence imply that it's impossible to view the sun at midnight in Tasmania?

Tasmania is a populated area.

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On your view every direct flight from LAX must experience substantial delays for your model to be accurate not some all. I will see about finding evidence of one on-time flight to render your hypothesis false.

There are very few direct flights. Please do some research.

Air Canada flight AC2133 from Honolulu to Sydney direct left 15 minutes late and is scheduled to land 40 minutes late, making its aggregate flight length 25 minutes longer or 8hrs 20 minutes total. On a straight line route from Honolulu to Sydney on your map, which would cross North America and Europe, I would conservatively estimate it crosses 70% of the Earth's circumference (if you provide a scale for your map, I will happily provide a more accurate number), making this a 28,000km flight yielding an average velocity of approximately 3,300km/h.

I will update you with the landing time.

Update and Erratta on AC2133 (Honolulu to Sydney direct):

I forgot to factor the time zone differences in to the flight time. The original flight time with a 10:45pm Honolulu time on March 28th take off and 6:15am Sydney time landing on March 30th was 10.5hrs. The flight actually departed at 11:45pm Honolulu time and landed 6:58am Sydney time for an 10.25hr flight time.

Source for departure time: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA2133/history/20130329/0845Z/PHNL/YSSY

Source for arrival time: http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/flights/flight-arrivals-and-departures/airport-visit-planner.aspx?fnum=AC2133+Arriving+30%2F03%2F2013+6%3A15%3A00+AM&act=&ttype=

Going back to my extremely conservative estimate of a 28,000kms for the journey on the FE map Tom is championing, this would require an average velocity of 2400km/h. This is well beyond the specifications for this craft even with a 400kph jet stream. The tracklog does not show it flying over either continent, so we can assume that the flight length was an oblong route with a path longer than 28,000kms making the required velocity to match the flight time even longer.

I am left with very few options here:

1. Boeing 777s in fact travel at super sonic speeds and have a range 62.5% longer than the published specifications (on the low end of the travel distance estimate).

2. The times that are published for take-offs and landings are incorrect.

3. The map put forward by Tom is not feasible.

I suppose option 1. is possible but it begs the question why are Boeing, airlines and airport authorities lying about the capabilities of their crafts? It does not seem like a viable answer to me. Option 2. seems even less likely. People use this published info to meet their loved ones on flights and any inaccuracies measured in hours on a consistent basis (read: almost every time) would be noticed. Option 3. seems the most likely as its proponent has himself said it was inaccurate. It places well-known land masses in geographic relationships that are known not to exist (e.g. New Zealand lying further from the Equator than Antarctica).

I submit that the map supported by Tom is not an accurate representation of the shape of the Earth.
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Pythagoras

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #100 on: March 30, 2013, 01:08:44 AM »
I second that ^^^^


Tom your map is horrendously inaccurate as shown by this evidence alone. Maby FE needs a new one?

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Sculder

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #101 on: March 30, 2013, 06:36:23 AM »
^^ Motion carried.  ;D

The idea of that map being anywhere near accurate has got more holes in it than a wheel of Swiss cheese.  ;D
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 06:38:25 AM by Sculder »
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jason_85

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #102 on: March 30, 2013, 08:25:10 AM »
If he keeps trying to tell me we have a midnight sun I'm gonna snap.
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

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Rama Set

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #103 on: April 02, 2013, 05:23:51 AM »
Tom Bishop?  I was wondering if you wanted to comment on my report of the flight time and path of AC2133 that departed Honolulu and arrived in Sydney?
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jason_85

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #104 on: April 02, 2013, 04:16:54 PM »
...or any of the countless mistakes in your maps and barrage of made up facts you answered said questions with.
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OMEGA MAN

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #105 on: April 03, 2013, 10:35:18 PM »
So you did not even read the blog?

"Unfortunately, there are no populated areas near the Antarctic circle where the sun is visible 24 hours a day"

She is suggesting Antarctic cruises to see the midnight sun in the Southern Hemisphere.

How does that sentence imply that it's impossible to view the sun at midnight in Tasmania?

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On your view every direct flight from LAX must experience substantial delays for your model to be accurate not some all. I will see about finding evidence of one on-time flight to render your hypothesis false.

There are very few direct flights. Please do some research.


 "Please do some research." I have noticed you write this (and you write it very often) when you have no answer.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 10:41:34 PM by OMEGA MAN »
BOLLOX.

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jason_85

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #106 on: April 03, 2013, 10:36:48 PM »
 ??? I don't get it.
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

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Rama Set

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #107 on: April 04, 2013, 05:24:44 AM »
??? I don't get it.

I think Omega Man wrote the last paragraph and included it in the quotation accidentally.
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Rama Set

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #108 on: April 04, 2013, 05:25:57 AM »
Tom-AC2133 Honolulu-Sydney direct. How did it make the flight so quickly? 
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Sculder

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #109 on: April 04, 2013, 05:32:07 AM »
Right, Tom Bishop is gonna give a you a reasonable answer on this about the same time that Parsifal is gonna clear up things regarding the well known fact the sun is made up of quark-gluon plasma.  ;D
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sceptimatic

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #110 on: April 04, 2013, 05:37:00 AM »
You all talk like you know what you are talking about and that FE believers have no clue, when the actual truth is, you lot don't have a clue. You are all running of a collective pat on each others backs like kids throwing stones and hitting the kid stood out in the play ground and praising each other each time you hit.

Most of you RE crew are all indoctrinated to the point of ridiculous and there's not much hope for you. ;D

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sandmanMike

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #111 on: April 04, 2013, 05:42:18 AM »
You all talk like you know what you are talking about and that RE believers have no clue, when the actual truth is, you lot don't have a clue. You are all running of a collective pat on each others backs like kids throwing stones and hitting the kid stood out in the play ground and praising each other each time you hit.

Most of you FE crew are all indoctrinated to the point of ridiculous and there's not much hope for you. ;D

Fixed that for ya  ;D

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sceptimatic

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #112 on: April 04, 2013, 05:44:42 AM »
You all talk like you know what you are talking about and that RE believers have no clue, when the actual truth is, you lot don't have a clue. You are all running of a collective pat on each others backs like kids throwing stones and hitting the kid stood out in the play ground and praising each other each time you hit.

Most of you FE crew are all indoctrinated to the point of ridiculous and there's not much hope for you. ;D

Fixed that for ya  ;D
I think you have just basically answered my question right there.  ;D

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sandmanMike

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #113 on: April 04, 2013, 05:59:14 AM »
You all talk like you know what you are talking about and that RE believers have no clue, when the actual truth is, you lot don't have a clue. You are all running of a collective pat on each others backs like kids throwing stones and hitting the kid stood out in the play ground and praising each other each time you hit.

Most of you FE crew are all indoctrinated to the point of ridiculous and there's not much hope for you. ;D

Fixed that for ya  ;D
I think you have just basically answered my question right there.  ;D

Last I checked gravity still existed, and you could go watch a rocket launch live.  I've provided you with the information to do so, it's up to you to take it upon yourself to come out of your shell and experience what the RE has to offer you.

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Dog

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Re: Why can't space travel exist on FE?
« Reply #114 on: April 06, 2013, 01:50:14 AM »
Good stuff lately. The quark-gluon plasma bail, the fact they can't explain AC2133, and Scepi dodging the question(although this isn't unusual(see: every post scepi has ever made)).