Circumnavigation

HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!

I am new, and I have many questions, but my big one is circumnavigation: three questions.

1: Why wouldn't I notice turning to circumnavigate? I was always told, if you flew in a straight line, you would eventually get back to where you were. Why wouldn't I notice turning?

2: What if I flew straight? What would happen?!

3: This is kind of a joke... Did Amelia Earhart fall off?

In RET, if you flew East to West anywhere except exactly on the equator, you would have to turn.  Why do you not notice this on a globe? 

In RET, if you flew East to West anywhere except exactly on the equator, you would have to turn.  Why do you not notice this on a globe?

I... do not understand. Please elaborate. The OP is stating that he doesn't notice turning when circumnavigating. You answer that you have to turn according to RET and asks why he does not notice. Is this sarcasm? I'm not getting it...

You have to turn when traveling east and west in either FET or RET, but you do not notice it because the turn is very slight. 

You have to turn when traveling east and west in either FET or RET, but you do not notice it because the turn is very slight.

Why not just follow a straight line, or arc, as the shortest distance?

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line. 

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 03:05:13 AM

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

On your fake globe, you could not travel in a straight line along any part of the earth, unless you want to fly off into your so called space.
You would have to follow the CURVE, meaning you would be turning and you don't notice this, do you? So why would you notice a turn on a circle as big as the earth is?

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 03:05:13 AM

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

Ignoring a downward curve, you are correct.  However, if you can not notice the turn while not traveling on the equator, then this point is moot, is it not?

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 03:46:41 AM

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 03:05:13 AM

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

On your fake globe, you could not travel in a straight line along any part of the earth, unless you want to fly off into your so called space.
You would have to follow the CURVE, meaning you would be turning and you don't notice this, do you? So why would you notice a turn on a circle as big as the earth is?

Clearly a downward curve, about 4" for every mile.  Not noticable.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 04:27:18 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 03:46:41 AM

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 03:05:13 AM

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

On your fake globe, you could not travel in a straight line along any part of the earth, unless you want to fly off into your so called space.
You would have to follow the CURVE, meaning you would be turning and you don't notice this, do you? So why would you notice a turn on a circle as big as the earth is?

Clearly a downward curve, about 4" for every mile.  Not noticable.

How does a plane account for this downward curve?

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 07:04:36 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 04:27:18 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 03:46:41 AM

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 03:05:13 AM

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

On your fake globe, you could not travel in a straight line along any part of the earth, unless you want to fly off into your so called space.
You would have to follow the CURVE, meaning you would be turning and you don't notice this, do you? So why would you notice a turn on a circle as big as the earth is?

Clearly a downward curve, about 4" for every mile.  Not noticable.

How does a plane account for this downward curve?

How do you think it does?  By maintaining the same height.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 10:14:59 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 07:04:36 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 04:27:18 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 03:46:41 AM

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 03:05:13 AM

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

On your fake globe, you could not travel in a straight line along any part of the earth, unless you want to fly off into your so called space.
You would have to follow the CURVE, meaning you would be turning and you don't notice this, do you? So why would you notice a turn on a circle as big as the earth is?

Clearly a downward curve, about 4" for every mile.  Not noticable.

How does a plane account for this downward curve?

How do you think it does?  By maintaining the same height.

How does the plane maintain the same height?

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 10:27:25 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 10:14:59 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 07:04:36 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 04:27:18 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 03:46:41 AM

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 03:05:13 AM

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

On your fake globe, you could not travel in a straight line along any part of the earth, unless you want to fly off into your so called space.
You would have to follow the CURVE, meaning you would be turning and you don't notice this, do you? So why would you notice a turn on a circle as big as the earth is?

Clearly a downward curve, about 4" for every mile.  Not noticable.

How does a plane account for this downward curve?

How do you think it does?  By maintaining the same height.

How does the plane maintain the same height?

Science gobbely gook.  What do you think?

By use of the altimeter to maintain a certain elevation above earth.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 10:32:09 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 10:27:25 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 10:14:59 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 07:04:36 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 04:27:18 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 03:46:41 AM

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 03:05:13 AM

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

On your fake globe, you could not travel in a straight line along any part of the earth, unless you want to fly off into your so called space.
You would have to follow the CURVE, meaning you would be turning and you don't notice this, do you? So why would you notice a turn on a circle as big as the earth is?

Clearly a downward curve, about 4" for every mile.  Not noticable.

How does a plane account for this downward curve?

How do you think it does?  By maintaining the same height.

How does the plane maintain the same height?

Science gobbely gook.  What do you think?

By use of the altimeter to maintain a certain elevation above earth.

So how does this altimeter know to keep dropping the planes height every 4 inches for every mile it travels?

Do you know what an altimeter is or even shows on a plane?

Do you know what an altimeter is or even shows on a plane?

It SHOWS altitude doesn't it?

My question is. How does it keep the plane from rising 4 inches per mile?

Quote from: BJ1234 on January 02, 2014, 11:15:22 AM

Do you know what an altimeter is or even shows on a plane?

It SHOWS altitude doesn't it?

My question is. How does it keep the plane from rising 4 inches per mile?

OK, so now if the altimeter shows the altitude, which is distance above the ground, to maintain the same altitude means to maintain the same distance above the ground. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 04:27:18 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on January 02, 2014, 03:46:41 AM

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 03:05:13 AM

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

If you travel on the equator you will travelling in a straight line and returning to where you started.  Similarly going south from the North Pole.

On your fake globe, you could not travel in a straight line along any part of the earth, unless you want to fly off into your so called space.
You would have to follow the CURVE, meaning you would be turning and you don't notice this, do you? So why would you notice a turn on a circle as big as the earth is?

Clearly a downward curve, about 4" for every mile.  Not noticable.

Turning to the left or right 4" for every mile would also not be noticeable, would it? 

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 11:19:52 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on January 02, 2014, 11:15:22 AM

Do you know what an altimeter is or even shows on a plane?

It SHOWS altitude doesn't it?

My question is. How does it keep the plane from rising 4 inches per mile?

OK, so now if the altimeter shows the altitude, which is distance above the ground, to maintain the same altitude means to maintain the same distance above the ground.

Don't hurt yourself, Scepti's clear misunderstanding of anything related to geometry is in the essence of his question.

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 11:19:52 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on January 02, 2014, 11:15:22 AM

Do you know what an altimeter is or even shows on a plane?

It SHOWS altitude doesn't it?

My question is. How does it keep the plane from rising 4 inches per mile?

OK, so now if the altimeter shows the altitude, which is distance above the ground, to maintain the same altitude means to maintain the same distance above the ground.

So how does the plane keep the same distance above the ground. What gadget does it have that makes it drop 4 inches for every single mile it flies?

The title of this thread is Circumnavigation.  You can not circumnavigate on a round or flat Earth by going on a straight line.

Sorry, but this is totally incorrect.

Ships and planes do travel in a straight line—along a great circle path.  They are not turning slightly all the time.  They travel on a path known as a "vertical curve".

Quote from: BJ1234 on January 02, 2014, 11:35:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on January 02, 2014, 11:19:52 AM

Quote from: BJ1234 on January 02, 2014, 11:15:22 AM

Do you know what an altimeter is or even shows on a plane?

It SHOWS altitude doesn't it?

My question is. How does it keep the plane from rising 4 inches per mile?

OK, so now if the altimeter shows the altitude, which is distance above the ground, to maintain the same altitude means to maintain the same distance above the ground.

So how does the plane keep the same distance above the ground. What gadget does it have that makes it drop 4 inches for every single mile it flies?

The autopilot or the actual pilot looking at the altimeter.  Level flight actually being a very slight descent, I'll let you work out the angle.  Please let us know the answer.

Turning to the left or right 4" for every mile would also not be noticeable, would it?

Most definitely would—to the plane's navigation system.

On a 1,000 mile flight, the plane would miss the runway by more than 300 feet LOL.

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 11:35:55 AM

Turning to the left or right 4" for every mile would also not be noticeable, would it?

Most definitely would—to the plane's navigation system.

On a 1,000 mile flight, the plane would miss the runway by more than 300 feet LOL.

Are you saying that a plane cannot correct for being blown off course by 4" every mile?  Planes are constantly making corrects to their bearing, yet, they do somehow manage to make it to the runway at their destination, do they not?  Your statement is sort of like saying that a person who has one leg longer than the other could never possibly walk a mile and arrive at the library because they could not possibly adjust and make corrections to their bearing. 

Are you saying that a plane cannot correct for being blown off course by 4" every mile?  Planes are constantly making corrects to their bearing, yet, they do somehow manage to make it to the runway at their destination, do they not?  Your statement is sort of like saying that a person who has one leg longer than the other could never possibly walk a mile and arrive at the library because they could not possibly adjust and make corrections to their bearing.

Uh... I think you may have misinterpreted the thrust of my comment?

Of course I understand that planes—in the real world—are constantly correcting for crosswinds.  I actually said that a deviation of 4" in every mile would be noticed and corrected by the plane's navigation system.

You said the deviation would not be noticeable—presumably to a passenger?  Which of course it wouldn't be.

But your implication was that a plane is constantly turning slightly left or right to maintain its allegedly curved path.  This is not so.  Planes always travel in dead straight lines from point A to point B.

If a plane was flying exactly east or west anywhere besides on the equator, would the plane not be turning if it was on a sphere? 

If a plane was flying exactly east or west anywhere besides on the equator, would the plane not be turning if it was on a sphere?

If it were following a line of latitude, yes. Would the slight turn be noticeable? That depends on which line of latitude it's following. Following 1°N, probably not, but following 89°N, most definitely!

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 01:38:41 PM

If a plane was flying exactly east or west anywhere besides on the equator, would the plane not be turning if it was on a sphere?

If it were following a line of latitude, yes. Would the slight turn be noticeable? That depends on which line of latitude it's following. Following 1°N, probably not, but following 89°N, most definitely!

I agree with you, Scintific, for the first time that I can remember.  Now, would the same thing happen on a flat Earth, aside from the equator part?

Quote from: jroa on January 02, 2014, 01:38:41 PM

If a plane was flying exactly east or west anywhere besides on the equator, would the plane not be turning if it was on a sphere?

If it were following a line of latitude, yes. Would the slight turn be noticeable? That depends on which line of latitude it's following. Following 1°N, probably not, but following 89°N, most definitely!

And what about 179 degrees south?  On monopole FE no, on RE you would most likely notice it.