The North Star proves Flat Earth is false

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Erland

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The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« on: October 08, 2025, 02:16:16 PM »
The following is an easy proof that the most popular Flat Earth model is false.

According to this model, the Earth is a flat circular disk with the North Pole in its center, at the bottom of a semispherical dome, on which the stars are attached.

But, since the North Star (Polaris) is always at its zenith (or very close to it) over the North Pole, the North Star will have an elevation angle of at least 45 degrees viewed from any point on the Earth. If you draw it, you'll see that it has to be like this.

But if you live in southern United States, or in Southern Europe, or in Southern Asia, or any place farther south, you will easily see that the North star has a considerably smaller elevation angle than 45 degrees, if it is visible at all.
I live in Sweden and here the elevation angle is greater than 45 degrees, but I have been in the Caribbean and seen the North Star at a much lower elevation than 45 degrees.

And from the Southern hemisphere, the North Star isn't visble at all!

Therefore, this Flat Earth model is false.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2025, 03:22:59 PM »
Not entirely.

That assumes that stars are very, very far away.  FET doesn't believe they are.  There are a few explanations that FET has that explains this.
If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

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Erland

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2025, 04:10:55 PM »
Not entirely.

That assumes that stars are very, very far away.  FET doesn't believe they are.  There are a few explanations that FET has that explains this.
Actually not. I assumed here that the stars are attached to a semispherical dome. If we assume that the dome meets the flat Earth disc at the edge of the Earth, this means the radius of the dome equals the radius of the Earth disc, which would be 20000 km. This is then the distance from the North Pole to any star.

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Torve

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2025, 04:41:48 PM »
Let's play fair and grant that Fe'ers are not in a position to know the exact shape of the supposed dome.

Still, polaris is located at a finite height above the north pole, thus it should be viewable at an angle greater than some minimum angle anywhere on earth.

Which it isn't.

Also, how can the southern cross be visible "near the rim" but not from high northern latitudes?

Explain that one, flatheads!

« Last Edit: October 08, 2025, 04:44:07 PM by Torve »

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2025, 11:46:14 PM »
This wouldn’t make any sense to see all the stars above a vast surface of Earth, it’s ridiculous to think such a thing would be possible at all.

One single point on a massive flat surface, are you serious?!

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2025, 11:47:26 PM »
This wouldn’t make any sense to see all the stars above a vast surface of Earth, it’s ridiculous to think such a thing would be possible at all.

One single point on a massive flat surface, we’d see all things above it? are you serious?!

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JackBlack

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2025, 01:54:06 AM »
This wouldn’t make any sense to see all the stars above a vast surface of Earth, it’s ridiculous to think such a thing would be possible at all.
Why?
What is blocking the view?

If there is a light hanging down from the ceiling in a large hall, then regardless of where I am in that hall, I can still see the light, because nothing is blocking the view.
What magic is blocking the view in your fantasy?

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2025, 04:05:47 AM »
When that light is a thousand miles from you, on a flat surface, you’d certainly never see it, nor would you see its light reach out to you either.

Nothing is blocking out the light or it’s span or cast outward of light…

It is again a factor of distances, and angles between the distant objects, of light or not of light, their relative angles over more and more distance apart block them each out from one another.

What you still fail to understand, because there’s no real world example of it, would and could and certainly SHOULD have been well proven long ago, with the tests I mentioned earlier on.

Horizons are also illusions, they aren’t real features on the surface three miles away, one and two miles away, or two hundred miles away on the Earths surface.

They’re all illusions we see over a long flat surface, and we live on one huge flat surface of Earth.

Don’t you remember saying a curved surface was physically curving the actual surface downward and ‘blocking it out’ from view?

That’s very much a physical curving downward surface, blocking out all things and entire surface by curving down physically, blocking everything physically out with a physically existing curving down surface!

The curving downward surface wasn’t a curve, because everyone here knows and understands that curves on spheres are always going downward more and more, with ever more distance.

Although we’ve not ever seen what this curved surface of their most grotesque invention WOULD look like, without having seen anything close to that, it’s been simulated from their specs and rate of curvature, I’m quite sure of that being done many times, but have never shown any of them at all. and never will show any of them, not yet anyway. Maybe when it falls apart to dust they’ll show them to us, it won’t matter at that point to show them.

Same as they claimed was ‘proof’ that Earth was a ball, based on other bs claims they made earlier on, it all is based on the original lies, which nobody knows or has a clue about existing as the first lies which sprouted the many many others that are never ending today or in future.

The sad thing is how easy it is to prove its flat, but nobody knows it yet

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JackBlack

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2025, 02:17:00 PM »
When that light is a thousand miles from you, on a flat surface, you’d certainly never see it, nor would you see its light reach out to you either.
So you are saying people directly below the light cannot see it?

It is again a factor of distances
No, it isn't.
This just sets an angle.
Using the commonly spouted FE BS of the north pole star being 5000 km above Earth, even someone at the south pole should see Polaris ~16 degrees above level.
And taking the north pole, a point 45 degrees north, and a point just north of the equator are already enough to show the massive problem.

If it was a factor of distance then you get a=atan(h/d).
We know the equator is roughly twice the distance from the north pole as 45 degrees north is.
We can get h=tan(a)*d.
And note that for a=45 degrees, that would give h=d.
We also know that at the north pole, a being roughly 90 degrees means d is roughly 0.
So at the equator we need a=atan(1/2) = 26.6 degrees.
So it should still be high in the sky. Yet instead we find it at an angle of elevation of roughly 0.

We can also compare pictures from various locations and see how the sky appears the same, just rotated, as if we are viewing it from the same angle and Earth had rotated.
We know it isn't some star blocking the view, because you can compare these views as you go south from the north pole, tracking the Polaris, and see how nothing is blocking the view, it just gets lower and lower until it drops below the horizon of the round Earth.

We also know it isn't simply the light getting dimmer, because there is no significant change in brightness.

The other simple way we know it CANNOT be distance, or something blocking the view due to angle, is by also looking at other stars.
We can look at a constellation, and measure its angular size.
And when we do, we see that as long as the constellation is visible (so we can see it), it is the same.
It has the same angular size. It is not a smaller angular size as you would expect with greater distance.
It has the same shape. It is not distorted as you would expect from looking at it from another angle.

This shows we are looking at it from roughly the same direction, and roughly the same distance.
This shows that the reason the angle between Earth's surface at our location and it is changing is because the orientation of Earth's surface is changing, i.e. Earth is round.


Horizons
I see you have yet again realised you have no answer, and are now desperately spouting the same pathetic, refuted BS.
If you want to spout that crap, go to that thread.

Explain why Polaris is not observed high in the sky.

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2025, 12:39:40 AM »
You’re already assuming stars are all trillions of miles away from Earth, and stars like Polaris are 50 times larger than our Sun, which you’ve also assumed is 93 million miles away from Earth and is so big it could fit over a million ball Earth’s in it!

You make up everything to fit your fairy tale, which is entirely built on lie after lie, then claim it all works with your pile of bs lies!

You pick out an illusion to fit your bs story, say the other things aren’t illusions at all, to again fit your bs story.

There’s no way to figure out angular views of objects at two points apart unless you know their exact size and exact distance away, and the region around them and to them as well.

Stars are under a massive dome, fixed in place under a massive concave wall under this dome. That effects their distance from one point on Earth, too

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2025, 12:46:24 AM »
What’s really funny is that you claim to know where all stars and sun and moon are from Earth, and know their sizes, and claim you know their angular distance based on nothing but bs claims to start with.

Then ignore that there ARE TWO viewpoints over the earths surface which we DO know any areas size is, and can view it from those two angles across both lines of the surface to see it’s entirely flat.

Your story is pure bs, ignores the facts and realities, makes up trash and nonsense

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JackBlack

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2025, 01:48:55 PM »
You’re already assuming stars are all trillions of miles away from Earth
No, we aren't.
It is a CONCLUSION.

Do you understand the difference?

A conclusion is something based upon the available evidence.

This is how you can go about concluding that yourself.

Go look at the night sky. Find Polaris, and some stars near to it.
Measure the angular separation between these stars, and note them down.
Then go to somewhere completely different on Earth, and do the same.

And you find the angular separation between them is the same.
i.e. you moving has not changed the angular separation.

That means (i.e. the conclusion is) that these stars are very far away, many times the distance than the distance between the points of observation.

See how there is no assumption there?
Just basic geometry.

So no, we are not making things up.
We are making conclusions based upon the available evidence.
This contradicts your pathetic fantasy so you need to ignore all that and instead just falsely claim it is an assumption.

But all you are doing by doing that is showing you are wilfully lying to everyone.

And what makes your claim even more utterly pathetic, that wasn't even what was being discussed.

Again, taking the common FE BS claim that Polaris is 5000 km above Earth, which can also be obtained directly from knowing that 45 degrees north is 5000 km from the north pole, and the angle of elevation to Polaris is 45 degrees at 45 degrees north, and then putting in the equator, which is twice as far as the north pole, so 10000 km away from the north pole, you get an angle of elevation of 26.6 degrees.
Yet in reality, it is observed near the horizon at an angle of elevation of roughly 0 degrees.

So the only assumption there is assuming Earth is flat.
The difference is now with this assumption, we reach a contradiction.

So by assuming Earth is flat, which reach an impossibility; which shows Earth isn't flat.

Care to address what is being said instead of going off on a pathetic tangent of lies?

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2025, 09:50:34 PM »
The one central star positioned directly above the center of our flat Earth, which has never once moved in its one position, you believe is proof for an Earth ball speeding and spinning through endless space?

Now I’ve heard everything!

Your story is that Earth and all stars speed through endless space, how could a single fixed in position above Earths center point star, ever support that story?!?  It only supports the very opposite of your story, and only proves your story is complete bs

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2025, 10:22:10 PM »
Seeing that every one of our stars above Earth, are the very same stars in the very same positions above Earth, since we have seen them to this very day, and every day in future, meaning they’ve been all the same stars over thousands and thousands of years, will certainly crush your story instantly, and does.

Anyone who claims there are countless billions and trillions more stars and ‘planets’ and ‘Suns’ and ‘galaxies’ that exist beyond us that we can ever see by human eye, that some of which have been seen through the telescopes of today and before now, are nothing but more lies they’ve told us, all along the way.

The very same constellations of multiple stars are all the same, as all the others are the very same, and it clearly proves their claims are utter bs, that alone destroys their story.

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2025, 12:53:31 AM »
You’re wrongly assuming that the central star over Earths center point of the flat surface of Earth, is above a ball Earth pole they used for their north point for their ball Earth fable.

What an incredible coincidence to have a North Pole of a ball Earth at the exact center point of the flat Earth, and another amazing coincidence that one star is directly above the center point of the flat Earth to become the same single star above the ball Earth’s ‘north pole’, too!

Why would there ever exist above Earth, one star which never moves at all from its position, if all stars are speeding through endless space, along with Earth, of course!

Let’s figure out how we’d actually see those stars move above a rotating ball Earth on its fixed path of rotational movements…

First thing they had to do with the Sun circling above the flat Earth, inward and outward again over each year, didn’t work with the sun above the ball Earth North Pole, and South Pole too.

So they ‘tilted’ the ball Earth within directionless ‘space’ to the Sun for their two poles, as best they could, anyway.

What they couldn’t do, or mention, is that the stars wouldn’t move with each point on Earth which is only rotating in one path within endless space!

Imagine yourself on a rotating ball Earth, which rotates in one direction or path within ‘space’.

You are on the rotating ball, somewhere on it, while it is rotating in a specific path or direction in ‘space’.

The stars don’t seem to move at all, they claim, yet they do, but not appear to move being so far from Earth!

But what they will never mention to us, which we should all know without them telling us about it, is that we’d all see stars moving above us differently on different points on Earth.

We’d not all see them circling above us on a rotating ball Earth.

They’d match with Earths rotational path, each point would be different to the path of rotation.

Earth would be circling in one path of direction, not every path would be in that same circle on ball Earth.

Stars would be seen relative to each point on Earth, relative to its path of rotation.

The only place we’d see stars circling around us would be at each point atop and below the path it spins in.

At points along its path of rotation, stars would pass by us opposite its rotational path, one direction opposite the spin of Earth.

There would be all sorts of different paths we’d see stars ‘moving in’ on Earth.

A fact proving their story is complete bs, once again

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JackBlack

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2025, 01:53:27 AM »
The one central star positioned directly above the center of our flat Earth, which has never once moved in its one position, you believe is proof for an Earth ball speeding and spinning through endless space?
Are you capable of reading what people say at all?

No, they are NOT saying it is proof that Earth is moving at all.
Instead, they are correctly pointing out it is proof beyond any sane doubt that Earth is round.
And it is so irrefutable you need to deflect from it straight away.

And your statement is also pure BS.
Polaris traces out a small circle every day. It is not magically fixed.
And over thousands of years, different stars take the place of the pole star.

Yet again, you are just asserting pathetic BS.

But that motion of Polaris is entirely irrelevant to the argument at hand.

What is important is that it appears in a different location in the sky for different observers, while constellations are not distorted nor appear with different angular sizes.

The ONLY sane explanation for that is that the reference, i.e. the surface of Earth, is at a different orientation.

If you think there is an alternative, then provide it.

Again, key points to note is that consteallations, other than appearing rotated, appear the same to all observers.
The angular size does not change, nor do they appear stretched or squashed in any direction, nor do the stars appear to have moved relative to each other.

This means they must be being seen from roughly the same angle and roughly the same distance.


Seeing that every one of our stars above Earth, are the very same stars in the very same positions above Earth, since we have seen them to this very day
No, they aren't.
Lying wont save you.
It just shows how pathetic and desperate you are.

are nothing but more lies they’ve told us, all along the way.
Based on what? That it doesn't match your pathetic fantasy?
You yet again assert they are lies, with absolutely no evidence at all.

The very same constellations of multiple stars are all the same
Regardless of where on Earth you are, showing they are incredibly far away and are being viewed from roughly the same direction.
So the only sane explanation for the apparent difference in position relative to Earth's surface, is the portion of Earth's surface you are standing on is at a different orientation.
i.e. Earth is round.

Do you have a better explanation?

You’re wrongly assuming
No. We CONCLUDE, based upon the evidence and argument you need to flee from.

What an incredible coincidence to have a North Pole of a ball Earth at the exact center point of the flat Earth
It isn't an amazing coincidence.
The lying FE scum simply took the north pole centred azimuthal equidistant projection and presented that as their FE.
But because of all the problems that causes in the south, not all FE cultists accept that.
Some have a south pole centred fantasy. Others have a bipolar fantasy.

another amazing coincidence that one star is directly above the center point of the flat Earth
Except it isn't.
It is NOT directly above the north pole.
And again, over thousands of years, that star changes.


one star which never moves at all from its position
Repeatedly lying will not save you.

Given how many stars there are, it is incredibly likely that one star will fall close enough for people to say it is good enough.

Let’s figure out how we’d actually see those stars move
How about before that, you try dealing with the argument at hand, and explain how we can see the same constellations all over Earth, with no distortion, yet having them appear in a completely different part of the sky?


Stop with your pathetic BS of deflecting from the topic at all costs.

And if you do want to try figuring out how something would actually work for the RE model, make sure you are actually using the RE model, not your pathetic strawmen.
And don't just make it pathetic, vague BS.

we’d all see stars moving above us differently on different points on Earth.
You mean how we can look up towards the north celestial pole, and see them appear to circle the pole in one direction; and we can look towards stars near the south celestial pole and see them appear to circle in the opposite direction, and see stars near the celestial equator, which instead appear to circle about an axis roughly parallel to the axis of Earth?

i.e. exactly what we see in reality?

All you are doing is further proving your BS wrong.

Now care to stop with all the pathetic BS and explain why we see the constellations appear the same yet in drastically different parts of the sky?

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2025, 04:29:42 AM »
They are all circling around Earth in the same direction, west to east.

Thanks for bringing this up, it shows Earth isn’t a ball with two opposing poles on it.

Look at their ACTUAL direction of movement. Not your viewpoint to them. Your view of stars is outward from your position and it is changed to view them inward from your other position of them.

That is not two different directions. They move in one same direction, everywhere above Earth

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2025, 06:45:47 AM »
They use earlier lies they made up to support every other lie they later make up

One of their most important and significant lies was the lie about all stars being trillions of miles away from Earth. The lie that really sold their endless universe lie, was the distant stars lie.

That lie was built upon many other lies, of course. The lie about a ball Earth and the lie about ball Earth orbiting the lie about the massive distant Sun was taken and made into another lie about parallax of stars, how the stars look at some angle in relation to other stars, using bs distances and sizes and motions of Earth ball in vast distances orbiting the humongous Sun, and all the rest of the bs….

After that, it’s easy to claim all stars are trillions of miles away from Earth. It’s all bs, but it works perfectly anyway! Who cares about this crap!

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Unconvinced

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2025, 07:22:04 AM »
When that light is a thousand miles from you, on a flat surface, you’d certainly never see it, nor would you see its light reach out to you either.

LOL

You can see Polaris in the entire northern hemisphere (that’s everywhere north of the equator to flat earthers).  Regardless of how high you bozos think it is, it’s over 6000 miles from the North Pole to the equator.

Your nonsense is demonstrably wrong.  Time to reevaluate instead of ignoring basic facts, maybe?

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JackBlack

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2025, 12:13:24 PM »
They are all circling around Earth in the same direction, west to east.
i.e. just like we expect for a round Earth.
And we clearly see that this is 2 poles, due to the north and south appearing to circle in opposite directions, one clockwise, one counter clockwise.
Completely unlike what is expected for a flat Earth.
And going for the stars in the south, which we observe circling the south celestial pole, they are moving east to west, when considered where they are. But for your delusional fantasy, they would moving east to west, turning to the south, going beyond the southern rim continuign to turn to then head back to the east to then come north and cross the southern rim again.

So notice how in your delusional fantasy they are NOT simply moving east to west?

But again, that isn't the topic.

They use earlier lies they made up to support every other lie they later make up
You mean flat Earthers?
Yes, FE scum like you do that repeatedly.
As you are doing now.

One of their most important and significant lies was the lie about all stars being trillions of miles away from Earth.
Again, not a lie.
A fact, a conclusion based upon the evidence, evidence you cannot refute.

Again, when we view a constellation, regardless of where on Earth we view it from, it appears the same, just rotated.
It's angular size does not change.
And it does not appear distorted.
This shows it is being viewed from basically the same distance, and basically the same direction.
And given the vast distances separating people, the distance to the star must be many times that.

You know this to be the case, which is why you entirely ignore this and need to repeatedly spout pathetic crap.

Again, stop with all the pathetic crap and deal with this fact.

That lie was built upon many other lies, of course. The lie about a ball Earth and the lie about ball Earth orbiting the lie about the massive distant Sun was taken and made into another lie about parallax of stars
You mean facts supported by mountains of evidence which you don't like and which contradict your pathetic fantasy so you need to repeatedly dismiss as lies, while you have absolutely nothing showing them to be lies?


Again, stop spamming irrelevant crap; and all your pathetic assertions of lies.
Deal with the topic at hand.

Explain how we see the same constellations without distortion, but in drastically different parts of the sky.
Can you do that at all?
If not, can you show a shred of integrity for once in your pathetic, dishonest existence and admit you have no explanation?

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2025, 08:29:05 PM »
The fact that we have always SEEN these very same stars in their very same relative positions to other stars, to hold each star within these same groupings of stars in a specific shape or outline shapes, described as constellations of stars, that have never changed at all, for thousands or more years, is clearly proof that the stars have been the same from day one, and always will be the same…

Where did you ever get this bs story that the stars moved from where they once were, thousands of years ago?

That’s the same sort of bs story they always spew out, bs claims they make up to fit their bs fairy tale story, trillions or thousands of years ago, the bs excuse yet again!!

You really have no clue about this issue, and what would anyone of us, today, believe that thousands of years ago, but they cannot say exactly when it was, or that they have any sort of valid evidence for their claim, because it’s all bs, same as the rest is….

Once again your story killed itself by your own doing…

The constellations are the very same, at all points on Earth, not like the North Star which has moved a bit further out from where it first was, so the stars look the very same from anywhere above Earth as constellations, only possible being they are all extremely distant from Earth!

What would you ever base THIS bs claim on?

Typical bs claim, it’s never proven, but they know it’s true anyway!


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JackBlack

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2025, 02:58:51 AM »
The fact that we have always SEEN these very same stars in their very same relative positions to other stars
yet in different position relative to Earth, proves beyond any sane doubt that Earth is round.

Again, the fact the constellations appear the same regardless of where you are on Earth and when you view them, with no distortion like making it appear squished in one direction, and no change in the angular size, demonstrates beyond any sane doubt that they are being viewed from roughly the same distance and roughly the same direction.
That means the only possible way to explain the difference in observed position relative to Earth (e.g. the angle of elevation to the star) is by Earth being round.

A flat Earth simply doesn't work.

that have never changed at all, for thousands or more years, is clearly proof
...
Where did you ever get this bs story
..
That’s the same sort of bs story they always spew out, bs claims they make up to fit their bs fairy tale story, trillions or thousands of years ago, the bs excuse yet again!!

You really have no clue about this issue, and what would anyone of us, today, believe that thousands of years ago, but they cannot say exactly when it was, or that they have any sort of valid evidence for their claim, because it’s all bs, same as the rest is….
There you go projecting again.
YOU are the one who decided to come with a pure BS claim that the stars have been observed to be in the same position for thousands of years.
What evidence do you have to support his claim?
Absolutely nothing.

You call out an alleged BS story, of making up BS claims to fit a BS fairy tale story; yet that is exactly what you are doing.

Conversely, you can start you research on wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_star

only possible being they are all extremely distant from Earth!
What would you ever base THIS bs claim on?
Basic geometry.

Say you have 2 stars.
The distance directly from your eye to one of these stars is D.
The distance between them is d.
And the angle between the line from the first star to your eye and the line connecting the 2 stars is a.
This allows you to construct a triangle:

You can find the third side using the law of cosines, usually written as:
c^2=a^2+b^2-2*a*b*cos(C).
In this case, we can apply that as:
c^2=D^2+d^2-2*D*d*cos(a)
so c = sqrt(D^2+d^2-2*D*d*cos(a))
We can then use the law of sines:
a/sin(A) = b/sin(B) = c/sin(C)
and apply it as:
d/sin(b)=c/sin(a)
To get:
sin(b)=sin(a)*d/c
b = arcsin(sin(a)*d/sqrt(D^2+d^2-2*D*d*cos(a)))

If you change a, you change b.
If you change D, you change b.


You can also get this from simple observations.
If I get a simple disc, a short cylinder, I can look at it straight on and see it as a circle.
But if I rotate it about an axis, then the length along that axis remains the same, but the angular size along the other axis shrinks, with it appearing as an ellipse, and then a line.
And if I view it from further away, the angular size appears smaller.

This is pretty basic, with virtually everyone understanding it, and you even appealing to it in other threads.

So why play dumb here?

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2025, 05:10:02 AM »
The stars are within the large concave shape under the Firmament, below the dome over Earth. That’s what is round to see above the flat Earth, not a ball Earth below a flat sheet of stars over a ball Earth

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2025, 07:41:28 AM »
The stars are within the large concave shape under the Firmament, below the dome over Earth. That’s what is round to see above the flat Earth, not a ball Earth below a flat sheet of stars over a ball Earth

A good approximation of the universe for many purposes is to treat stars and other distant objects (galaxies, nebulae, other objects outside the solar system) as being on a sphere with very large radius with the spherical earth at its center. That is, a sphere (earth) within a sphere (the "celestial sphere") so large that parallax due to the radius of the earth is insignificant. The celestial sphere model is sufficient for almost all purposes until precision on the order of stellar parallax (due to the radius of earth's orbit around the sun, never more than 800 milliarcseconds, usually much less) is significant.

A "ball Earth below a flat sheet of stars over a ball Earth" is not a good approximation at any scale and is not used except as a flat-earth strawman.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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JackBlack

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2025, 12:51:52 PM »
The stars are within the large concave shape under the Firmament
That doesn't help you at all.

You still have the stars in specific position, where the distance and angle changes between observers or over time.
That will still produce distortion. That will still result in the angular size changing.

You will need more than a pathetic assertion to pretend things work.
Try actually addressing the issue.

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Erland

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2025, 02:55:44 AM »
This wouldn’t make any sense to see all the stars above a vast surface of Earth, it’s ridiculous to think such a thing would be possible at all.

One single point on a massive flat surface, are you serious?!
Then tell us: Where are the stars? What are the their distances to the Earth? Are they attached to a dome? If so, What's the shape of the dome? Etc. Etc.

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2025, 01:31:53 AM »
Their claims of stars being trillions of miles away is complete bs.

They use their other bs claims as being support for the next bs claims, as the bs claim
of far far away stars is built on other bs claims they’ve made before the next bs claims they’ll make up.


In a pitch black room, or place, of unknown size and dimensions, you see some tiny lights in the distance.


Do you believe that you can determine their distance from you, moving from one viewpoint of the tiny lights to other viewpoints, to change their relative angles you see them at?

You cannot know any of their distances from you, it’s impossible.

You don’t know anything about the lights. They could be at any angle each, or two are the same angles, all at different distances of the other lights, all different in size and shape and so on.

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JackBlack

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2025, 02:47:00 AM »
Their claims of stars being trillions of miles away is complete bs.
If that was the case, you would trivially be able to deal with the facts that show that.

Again, the FACT that the a given constellation appear the same (assuming you can see it), regardless of where you are on Earth, and what time you look at it; just rotated; i.e. without any change in angular size or distortion; shows beyond any sane doubt, that everyone is viewing these constellations from roughly the same direction and roughly the same distance.

This shows they are at least hundreds of thousands of km away. Showing the FE claim is pure BS.

And the fact they don't appear in the same location relative to Earth at our location (e.g. the angle of elevation of Polaris varies with latitude), shows that the reference, i.e. Earth's surface is at a different angle, i.e. Earth is round.

And this doesn't need us to know their exact distance, or for them to be trillions of archaic units away.

Instead, of just continually spouting pathetic crap, you try to deal with the argument presented?

P.S. you can determine the distance. By measuring the parallax as you move.

If you can't detect the parralax, i.e. get a measurement of "0", this shows they are very far away, with that distance dependent upon how far you moved, and how accurately you can measure.
e.g. if you move say the distance from the north pole to the equator in the FE fantasy (10 000 km), and can measure to 1 degree, but see no movement, that shows the object is at least 10 000km/(2 atan(1deg)) = 286 508 km away.

The problem with doing that directly on Earth is you falsely thinking Earth is flat, meaning you need a reference, such as the stars that are even further away. But again, none of this is needed.
The fact the angular separation between the stars does not change as we move around Earth or as we let time pass, shows they are incredibly far away.

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turbonium2

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2025, 04:11:20 AM »
Because the stars are always above Earth circling around it, so they’re seen the same way, anywhere on Earth seen.

Not because they’re trillions of miles from Earth, that’s complete nonsense.

Your argument doesn’t even work with having all the same stars above Earth since day one and ever since then!






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JackBlack

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Re: The North Star proves Flat Earth is false
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2025, 12:50:41 PM »
Because the stars are always above Earth circling around it
This does literally NOTHING to explain it.

Consider someone at the north pole, someone at 45 degrees north, and someone at the equator. All at the same longitude.

Then apply this diagram to 2 stars, Polaris and say Pherkad (Gamma Ursae Minoris) at a declination of roughly 72 degrees., with an observed angular separation between these 2 of roughly 18 degrees.