concord

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concord
« on: February 08, 2007, 03:28:30 PM »
so here is my *serious* statement

while it was still flying, I was lucky enough to make a trans atlantic trip in concord. in order to fly supersonic, concord must fly higher than most airliners. at this altitude, as I looked out the window, I saw the curve of the earth, something that I didn't notice while lower down, as I watched the sun rise over the curved horizon.

this earth is vast beyond our imagination. if you use your five senses in saying the earth is flat, you aren't taking into account the sheer size of the earth which tricks our eyes. as any illusionist will tell you, eyes CAN be tricked.

concord
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2007, 03:31:50 PM »
the windows were actually TV screens
tf?

concord
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2007, 03:32:49 PM »
Quote from: "Ezkerraldean"
the windows were actually TV screens


how predictable. and i guess all the eyewitnesses in the 60s all saw the curve in their ultra realistic tv screens

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Rick_James

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concord
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2007, 03:33:30 PM »
Quote from: "adder"
Quote from: "Ezkerraldean"
the windows were actually TV screens


how predictable. and i guess all the eyewitnesses in the 60s all saw the curve in their ultra realistic tv screens



Ezkerraldean is a troll, not an FE believer.

concord
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2007, 03:34:32 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "adder"
Quote from: "Ezkerraldean"
the windows were actually TV screens


how predictable. and i guess all the eyewitnesses in the 60s all saw the curve in their ultra realistic tv screens



Ezkerraldean is a troll, not an FE believer.


what would a more infomed response be then?

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Rick_James

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concord
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2007, 03:36:12 PM »
Quote from: "adder"
what would a more infomed response be then?


I believe you thought you saw curvature, but it was just the illusion given by not being able to see any further, due to atmospheric distortion. Other may give a different answer (be patient) but they're my thoughts.

concord
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2007, 03:36:13 PM »
Probably that the windows had a slight fisheye effect, or some such absurdity

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RenaissanceMan

concord
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2007, 03:38:28 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "adder"
Quote from: "Ezkerraldean"
the windows were actually TV screens


how predictable. and i guess all the eyewitnesses in the 60s all saw the curve in their ultra realistic tv screens



Ezkerraldean is a troll, not an FE believer.


And... that makes him different from, say... Tom Bishop, how? 95% of the idiots responding with pro-FE rhetoric are trolls.

concord
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2007, 03:39:53 PM »
okay then, it seems that any point made here can be explained away by the fact that what was seen was a fake.

what does this imply?
answer: that every, and I mean EVERY single aspect of this world. every airliner has to be fitted with lenses, every explorer that goes around the earth, every scientist that proves the earth is round has to be shut up.

bascially there are millions upon millions who make a living of making sure a rather pointless lie is preserved.

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Rick_James

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concord
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2007, 03:40:04 PM »
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
And... that makes him different from, say... Tom Bishop, how? 95% of the idiots responding with pro-FE rhetoric are trolls.


Your judgement of Tom is based on your opinion of him, not on the content of his posts.

concord
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2007, 03:53:04 PM »
Quote from: "adder"
okay then, it seems that any point made here can be explained away by the fact that what was seen was a fake.

what does this imply?
answer: that every, and I mean EVERY single aspect of this world. every airliner has to be fitted with lenses, every explorer that goes around the earth, every scientist that proves the earth is round has to be shut up.

bascially there are millions upon millions who make a living of making sure a rather pointless lie is preserved.


anyone?

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Rick_James

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concord
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2007, 03:57:13 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
I believe you thought you saw curvature, but it was just the illusion given by not being able to see any further, due to atmospheric distortion. Other may give a different answer (be patient) but they're my thoughts.

concord
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2007, 04:00:21 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "adder"
what would a more infomed response be then?


I believe you thought you saw curvature, but it was just the illusion given by not being able to see any further, due to atmospheric distortion. Other may give a different answer (be patient) but they're my thoughts.


HMMMMM

concord
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2007, 04:02:42 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
And... that makes him different from, say... Tom Bishop, how? 95% of the idiots responding with pro-FE rhetoric are trolls.


Your judgement of Tom is based on your opinion of him, not on the content of his posts.


The opinion of Tom is surely based on the contents of his posts?

concord
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2007, 04:03:22 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "Rick_James"
I believe you thought you saw curvature, but it was just the illusion given by not being able to see any further, due to atmospheric distortion. Other may give a different answer (be patient) but they're my thoughts.


ill believe it when i see a study that shows the atmosphere distorts a horizon line at that alititude

i'm done for today, if someone can give me a reason that doesn't involve a 300 year conspiracy, I'd appreciate it.
peace.

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Rick_James

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concord
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2007, 04:06:42 PM »
Quote from: "adder"
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "Rick_James"
I believe you thought you saw curvature, but it was just the illusion given by not being able to see any further, due to atmospheric distortion. Other may give a different answer (be patient) but they're my thoughts.


ill believe it when i see a study that shows the atmosphere distorts a horizon line at that alititude

i'm done for today, if someone can give me a reason that doesn't involve a 300 year conspiracy, I'd appreciate it.
peace.


I just gave you a reason that doesn't involve a conspiracy. You RE'ers are sure hard to please.

concord
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2007, 04:07:04 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "adder"
what would a more infomed response be then?


I believe you thought you saw curvature, but it was just the illusion given by not being able to see any further, due to atmospheric distortion. Other may give a different answer (be patient) but they're my thoughts.


But you above most of the distortion from the athomosphere though. Hence why telescopes are placed on mountains.

When I first went to Switzerland, I noticed how bigger Orion looked up in those mountains. The higher you are, the less atmosphere, the less distortion. So how does your argument work?

Rick, if you reckon at that height the horizon shows curvature because of atmospheric distortion, then why does the horizon not show more curvature lower down when there is more distortion due more atmosphere?

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Rick_James

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concord
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2007, 04:10:36 PM »
Quote from: "edlloyd"

But you above most of the distortion from the athomosphere though. Hence why telescopes are placed on mountains.

When I first went to Switzerland, I noticed how bigger Orion looked up in those mountains. The higher you are, the less atmosphere, the less distortion. So how does your argument work?

Rick, if you reckon at that height the horizon shows curvature because of atmospheric distortion, then why does the horizon not show more curvature lower down when there is more distortion due more atmosphere?


Because he's higher up, looking back down at the Earth, so there's more atmosphere between he and the earth, whereas in your Switzerland example, there's less atmosphere between you and the star.

concord
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2007, 04:14:31 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "edlloyd"

But you above most of the distortion from the athomosphere though. Hence why telescopes are placed on mountains.

When I first went to Switzerland, I noticed how bigger Orion looked up in those mountains. The higher you are, the less atmosphere, the less distortion. So how does your argument work?

Rick, if you reckon at that height the horizon shows curvature because of atmospheric distortion, then why does the horizon not show more curvature lower down when there is more distortion due more atmosphere?


Because he's higher up, looking back down at the Earth, so there's more atmosphere between he and the earth, whereas in your Switzerland example, there's less atmosphere between you and the star.


Exaclty...so when I looked across the pacific when in Taiwan, why was the curvature of the even more then, through even more, denser atmosphere.

If you have that effect looking down at 10miles in the air then would surely have that even more so looking across the pacific ocean, say 20miles, through even denser atmosphere.

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Rick_James

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concord
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2007, 04:17:52 PM »
Quote from: "edlloyd"
Exaclty...so when I looked across the pacific when in Taiwan, why was the curvature of the even more then, through even more, denser atmosphere.

If you have that effect looking down at 10miles in the air then would surely have that even more so looking across the pacific ocean, say 20miles, through even denser atmosphere.


I'm sorry, I really tried to understand what you're trying to say here, but couldn't. Can you explain what you're saying again for me?

concord
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2007, 04:20:18 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "edlloyd"
Exaclty...so when I looked across the pacific when in Taiwan, why was the curvature of the even more then, through even more, denser atmosphere.

If you have that effect looking down at 10miles in the air then would surely have that even more so looking across the pacific ocean, say 20miles, through even denser atmosphere.


I'm sorry, I really tried to understand what you're trying to say here, but couldn't. Can you explain what you're saying again for me?


U think when looking at that height, that there is more atmosphere to look through so makes the horizon look curved? Yes?

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Rick_James

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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2007, 04:24:02 PM »
Quote from: "edlloyd"
U think when looking at that height, that there is more atmosphere to look through so makes the horizon look curved? Yes?


I think when you are as high up as a concord (used to) fly, looking back at the Earth, you will only be able to see so far in every direction due to the amount of atmosphere between yourself and the earth. The fact that the fall-off is the same in every direction, creates a circular field of view, which I believe many people mistake for curvature.

concord
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2007, 04:29:53 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "edlloyd"
U think when looking at that height, that there is more atmosphere to look through so makes the horizon look curved? Yes?


I think when you are as high up as a concord (used to) fly, looking back at the Earth, you will only be able to see so far in every direction due to the amount of atmosphere between yourself and the earth. The fact that the fall-off is the same in every direction, creates a circular field of view, which I believe many people mistake for curvature.


But he said a dip, a curve. A circle is different to a curve in this instance. U argued its because of distortion. But the atmosphere is denser down here, so lookin across the pacific, why do not get a dipping/curving affect like up there?

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Rick_James

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concord
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2007, 04:47:03 PM »
Quote from: "edlloyd"
But he said a dip, a curve. A circle is different to a curve in this instance. U argued its because of distortion. But the atmosphere is denser down here, so lookin across the pacific, why do not get a dipping/curving affect like up there?


Yep, but I meant he coul donly see part of the circle (the rest was probably hidden by the rest of the plane). I'm not sure I understand what your talking about "down here". Are you saying there's more atmosphere on ground level than there is in the atmosphere?

concord
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2007, 04:50:51 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "edlloyd"
But he said a dip, a curve. A circle is different to a curve in this instance. U argued its because of distortion. But the atmosphere is denser down here, so lookin across the pacific, why do not get a dipping/curving affect like up there?


Yep, but I meant he coul donly see part of the circle (the rest was probably hidden by the rest of the plane). I'm not sure I understand what your talking about "down here". Are you saying there's more atmosphere on ground level than there is in the atmosphere?


Behind the plane?? Passeneger windows are the side of the plane? Why would need to see behind the plane? Do u mean 360 view? U said it dips because of atmosphere distortion.

Down here, the atmosphere is denser, so lookin across the pacific (longer than he would of seen lookin to the ground), more atmopshere to look through and denser as well...so why would this affect u told of be even more exagarated at sea level?

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RenaissanceMan

concord
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2007, 04:55:03 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "edlloyd"
But he said a dip, a curve. A circle is different to a curve in this instance. U argued its because of distortion. But the atmosphere is denser down here, so lookin across the pacific, why do not get a dipping/curving affect like up there?


Yep, but I meant he coul donly see part of the circle (the rest was probably hidden by the rest of the plane). I'm not sure I understand what your talking about "down here". Are you saying there's more atmosphere on ground level than there is in the atmosphere?


Here in the real world, there is more air closer to the ground. This is because gravity pulls the atmosphere down towards the center of the earth. Of course... it stops at the surface... for obvious reasons. As you go up, the atmosphere thins... at 100 miles or so, it's pretty much vacuum.

In the FE model, or course, there is no atmosphere above 150 feet as the acceleration produced by the UA would shove it over the ice wall and into the void.

concord
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2007, 04:57:45 PM »
Nah, one of these guys theorized that there's a dome over Earth. :lol:  :roll:

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Rick_James

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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2007, 05:01:24 PM »
Quote from: "edlloyd"
Behind the plane?? Passeneger windows are the side of the plane? Why would need to see behind the plane? Do u mean 360 view? U said it dips because of atmosphere distortion.

Down here, the atmosphere is denser, so lookin across the pacific (longer than he would of seen lookin to the ground), more atmopshere to look through and denser as well...so why would this affect u told of be even more exagarated at sea level?



Erm, well if he's looking out a plane window, his view is restricted to a small window. What i'm saying is that from his vantage point, he could only observe some of the circle (the rest was under the plane, etc, such as if it was a glass plane, he would be able to see much more of it)

Going by what you're saying, if there's more atmosphere closer to the ground (as there is) then he's effectively having to look through ALL the atmosphere. At ground level, you only need to look through some of it. I'm really finding it difficult to understand your examples, perhaps you could give them a bit more detail?

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RenaissanceMan

concord
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2007, 05:02:09 PM »
Quote from: "Ambassadork"
Nah, one of these guys theorized that there's a dome over Earth. :lol:  :roll:


Nice try. But hypothesizing don't make it so. Clearly... the problem with a dome is a deity would have had to put it there. These chumps all claim to be athiests as part of their "We're not like the old school idiots!" routine.

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Rick_James

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« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2007, 05:02:44 PM »
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
Here in the real world, there is more air closer to the ground. This is because gravity pulls the atmosphere down towards the center of the earth. Of course... it stops at the surface... for obvious reasons. As you go up, the atmosphere thins... at 100 miles or so, it's pretty much vacuum.

In the FE model, or course, there is no atmosphere above 150 feet as the acceleration produced by the UA would shove it over the ice wall and into the void.


Right, so if you were high up in the air, looking back at the earth, there's a lot of atmosphere to look through, distorting your view.