GPS satellites???

Airplanes create this thing called lift.

Airplanes create this thing called lift.

which is how they fly in RE, but in FE, the earth moves upwards. so regardless of lift or not, the earth would surely meet it.

Why do they need to create lift?  Because without it they would crash into the ground.  In either model.

A plane would only stay a flight it was facing away from the earth, IE, straight up. Its flying horizonatal to the earth, the earth would be moving upwards to meet it.

Sorry mate, now you're effectively moving into a full explanation of FE. I can't let you be that lazy. Search for hayley's comet and the like if you want. I'll let engineer take over the aeroplane bit. I'm going for lunch!

Why do they need to create lift?  Because without it they would crash into the ground.  In either model.

When did I say they didnt need lift??

When you said they had to fly straight up to keep from hitting the earth.

Quote from: "edlloyd"

A plane would only stay a flight it was facing away from the earth, IE, straight up. Its flying horizonatal to the earth, the earth would be moving upwards to meet it.

Sorry mate, now you're effectively moving into a full explanation of FE. I can't let you be that lazy. Search for hayley's comet and the like if you want. I'll let engineer take over the aeroplane bit. I'm going for lunch!

What? That lazy? That's science mate. Einstein had to be pretty in depth about relativity, did he not?

The only result to hayley's is in this thread.

Thanks for another helpful explanation.

What? That lazy? That's science mate. Einstein had to be pretty in depth about relativity, did he not?

The only result to hayley's is in this thread.

Thanks for another helpful explanation.

 :? I think I've been pretty helpful this morning buddy. Considering I'm at work, and I'm spending a lot of time typing out answers to your questions. At this point, I'm handing over as I need to eat lunch. My problem was that you keep introducing new questions, effectively de-railing the thread. If you couldn't find something specifically on Hayley's comet, you should definetly been able to find something on comets and meteors in general.

Quote from: "edlloyd"

What? That lazy? That's science mate. Einstein had to be pretty in depth about relativity, did he not?

The only result to hayley's is in this thread.

Thanks for another helpful explanation.

 :? I think I've been pretty helpful this morning buddy. Considering I'm at work, and I'm spending a lot of time typing out answers to your questions. At this point, I'm handing over as I need to eat lunch. My problem was that you keep introducing new questions, effectively de-railing the thread. If you couldn't find something specifically on Hayley's comet, you should definetly been able to find something on comets and meteors in general.

New questions?? What? You never gave an answer my thread of how GPS works did you? So what are you doing in this thread then?

New questions?? What? You never gave an answer my thread of how GPS works did you? So what are you doing in this thread then?

Actually I was answering this question:

I jump....but then I fall to the ground. Without gravity? What would cause this effect?

Quote from: "edlloyd"

New questions?? What? You never gave an answer my thread of how GPS works did you? So what are you doing in this thread then?

Actually I was answering this question:

Quote from: "edlloyd"

I jump....but then I fall to the ground. Without gravity? What would cause this effect?

Apology accepted

Apology accepted

It's a shame you turned out to be another typical RE'er after I invested so much of my morning trying to answer the questions you had. Looks like referring people to the FAQ and search really is the way to go.

Quote from: "edlloyd"

Apology accepted

It's a shame you turned out to be another typical RE'er after I invested so much of my morning trying to answer the questions you had. Looks like referring people to the FAQ and search really is the way to go.

Well...think about it. I said I fall to the ground in response to someone saying gravity didnt exists. But gravity exists, so that is how satelites orbit.

We, in affect, both at fault for not concentratin on the original debate of how does GPS work.

U tell people to stick to the subject, yet you didnt stick to this subject yourself. Hence...a cheeky comment

U tell people to stick to the subject, yet you didnt stick to this subject yourself. Hence...a cheeky comment

I had put the topic aside for one sec to try and help out a new member. Don't worry, I won't do it again.

Fine.  GPS works because of very accurate clocks.

Fine.  GPS works because of very accurate clocks.

lol no it doesn't
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS its satellites...how can we have Satellites, they themselves contradict FE theory

Quote from: "zach3792"

but gravity exists so that makes you retarded!!!!!!!!!PUT YOUR HELMET ON AND GET BACK IN THE CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prove it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  GET YOUR "SHIFT" and "1" KEY UNSTUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FAQ - says...

Q: "Why does gravity vary with altitude?"

A: The moon and stars have a slight gravitational pull.

lol no it doesn't

Actually, yes it does.

Quote from: "TheEngineer"

Fine.  GPS works because of very accurate clocks.

lol no it doesn't

Please explain how GPS is possible if they don't use very accurate clocks.

Quote from: "Quarrior"

Quote from: "TheEngineer"

Fine.  GPS works because of very accurate clocks.

lol no it doesn't

Please explain how GPS is possible if they don't use very accurate clocks.

engineer you seem quite clued up about FE...

could u answer in my moon crater thread as to why there are craters on the moon?

Quote from: "Quarrior"

Quote from: "TheEngineer"

Fine.  GPS works because of very accurate clocks.

lol no it doesn't

Please explain how GPS is possible if they don't use very accurate clocks.

It uses three satellites. A message is sent to the satellites from the ground by any GPS device. The three satellites then send a signal back to the device triangulating its position relative to the positions of the satellites above the surface of the earth. Remember these satellites are in geosynchronous orbit some 36 000km's above the surface of the Earth so time is not necessary.

Quote from: "TheEngineer"

Quote from: "Quarrior"

Quote from: "TheEngineer"

Fine.  GPS works because of very accurate clocks.

lol no it doesn't

Please explain how GPS is possible if they don't use very accurate clocks.

It uses three satellites. A message is sent to the satellites from the ground by any GPS device. The three satellites then send a signal back to the device triangulating its position relative to the positions of the satellites above the surface of the earth. Remember these satellites are in geosynchronous orbit some 36 000km's above the surface of the Earth so time is not necessary.

Nope.  The GPS unit in your car is a RECEIVER, not a transmitter.  Try again.

 I will give you a chance to redeem yourself:  Research how GPS works and then come back and explain how it is done without those clocks I mentioned earlier.

Nope.  The GPS unit in your car is a RECEIVER, not a transmitter.  Try again.

 I will give you a chance to redeem yourself:  Research how GPS works and then come back and explain how it is done without those clocks I mentioned earlier.

Wrong again. firstly I provided a link to how GPS works earlier in this forum.

Secondly any device which sends information to anything else is a transmitter. lol u just disproved yourself if the GPS unit is only a reciever, then it can NOT operate based on very accurate clocks, as to determine the position of an object using clocks is called multilateration, where a signal is sent to three fixed points on the earths surface and then these points can determine the transmitters position based on the time it took for the signal to be recieved at all three locations. This is DIFFERENT TO GPS which uses satellites...Check it on wiki lol, or google or even go back to my previous post.

GPS device requires the satellites to know the position of the device. I know the GPS system in your car is just a reciever...but I didn't mention that did I, not all GPS devices are simply recievers. ASIO uses GPS devices that can send and recieve information so that they can locate objects on the surface of the planet which are not GPS devices

Its pretty clear that u know nothing of what you are talking about. Everytime u make a counter-point i easily rebut. When will u ever prove me worng...I question your scientific background immensely.

lol u just disproved yourself if the GPS unit is only a reciever, then it can NOT operate
...
I know the GPS system in your car is just a reciever...

 :roll:

Let me help you out a little bit.

GPS 101 will now begin.

The transmitters have on board atomic clocks.  These are all sync'ed to what is known as GPS time.  These transmitters send out signals which contain three pieces of data:  The status of the transmitter, the position of the transmitter, and the current GPS time.

The receiver contains an antenna, a quartz clock, and a computer.  When it receives a signal, it calculates the transit time of the signal based on the time stamp contained within the signal, and using the known speed of light, determines the receiver's distance from the transmitter.  The receiver can be anywhere on the surface of a sphere whose radius is is the calculated distance from the transmitter.

After doing this for two signals, the receiver's possible location is now a circle where the two spheres intersect.  

One more signal narrows the position to two locations.

Using the earth as a fourth sphere, it has located its position on the surface of the earth.

Now, at start up, the receiver has no idea what the current GPS time is.  In order for it to set its clock without the lag caused by signal transit time, it must aquire four signals.  Knowing there is only a small time error, the receiver begins to calculate a time that would cause all four spheres to intersect at one point in space.  Since there is only one value for time that would allow this, it now knows GPS time, and sets its quartz clock accordingly.

It now needs only three signals to calculate its position.

Without the atomic clocks on the transmitters, time synchronization between the transmitters would not be possible and the receiver would be getting different time values for each signal.  This means that the location spheres would intermittently not intersect or two would meet at a single point in the upper atmosphere, making GPS useless.

Shit, I just learned something new tonight! Thanks Engineer!

But, aren't there units that use a satellite as well? Or are they all the same?

If you believe in such things as satellites, replace 'transmitter' in my post with 'satellite'.

If you believe in such things as satellites, replace 'transmitter' in my post with 'satellite'.

You seem confused by Multilateration and Trilateration. What you have described is Multilateration.

GPS uses trilateration...and I quote from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS

Trilateration is the mathematical basis behind the Global Positioning System (GPS) and similar systems.

What you said in your previous post was exactly what I was saying. The point about synchronized satellite clocks I thought was obvious.

The receiver contains an antenna, a quartz clock, and a computer. When it receives a signal, it calculates the transit time of the signal based on the time stamp contained within the signal, and using the known speed of light, determines the receiver's distance from the transmitter. The receiver can be anywhere on the surface of a sphere whose radius is is the calculated distance from the transmitter.

this is Multilateration, this is not how GPS works...

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_positioning

Multilateration, also known as hyperbolic positioning, is the process of locating an object by accurately computing the time difference of arrival (TDOA) of a signal emitted from the object to three or more receivers. It also refers to the case of locating a receiver by measuring the TDOA of a signal transmitted from three or more synchronised transmitters.

Multilateration should not be confused with trilateration, which uses absolute measurements of time-of-arrival from three or more sites.

Triliteration is used by GPS which is not the same as what you are presenting. I however do not deny the use of synchronized Atomic clocks on the satellite, it seems pretty obvious to me that they would use them to determine their own orbital position with reference to the point above the Earth's surface, distance to other satellites etc.

What you have described is Multilateration.

Multilateration is what you have described.  You said that the unit in your car transmits a signal to three receivers.  What  I have described is trilateration.  

Let's review.  You said:

It uses three satellites. A message is sent to the satellites from the ground by any GPS device. The three satellites then send a signal back to the device triangulating its position relative to the positions of the satellites above the surface of the earth.

Multilateration is :

Multilateration, also known as hyperbolic positioning, is the process of locating an object by accurately computing the time difference of arrival (TDOA) of a signal emitted from the object to three or more receivers.

I said:

The receiver contains an antenna, a quartz clock, and a computer. When it receives a signal, it calculates the transit time of the signal based on the time stamp contained within the signal, and using the known speed of light, determines the receiver's distance from the transmitter.

Measuring the time delay between transmission and reception of each GPS radio signal gives the distance to each satellite, since the signal travels at a known speed. The signals also carry information about the satellites' location. By determining the position of, and distance to, at least three satellites, the receiver can compute its position using trilateration.

Can you really be this stupid?

Quote from: "Quarrior"

What you have described is Multilateration.

Multilateration is what you have described.  You said that the unit in your car transmits a signal to three receivers.  What  I have described is trilateration.  

LOL you didn't even listen to what i said. I said GPS devices in your CARS are simply recievers, I never said anything about simple GPS devices being transmitters!!!!...I said Some GPS devices, which ASIO uses can however send information to satellites to calculate the position of something which does not have a GPS device. The transmission would Carry co-ordinants

I described Trilateration, YOU described multilateration you moron