Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.

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Aera23

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Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2024, 09:08:53 PM »
Steel ships float because the shape of the ship allows air to be stored in it, the air doesn't weigh much, allowing the ship to be larger, displacing as much water as it weighs.
*sigh*  I want the BS density makes things go up and down explanation, not the real scientific explanation.
Ohh, that explanation may involve "the denser the material is, the lower it falls" (partially true, fails without gravity, unless gravity is renamed to be the 2nd type of density)
~~~^.^~~~
I am bulmabriefs144, Smasher of Testicles.  You see? Titles are ridiculous.

Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2024, 09:15:19 PM »
An aluminum table is on the ground, and becomes part of the ground, it isn’t just a table of aluminum alone, it’s a table resting on solid ground.

The grounds mass is holding up the table. Which makes the table sturdier and gives it more density when on ground.

I’m specifically referring to objects within one medium, surrounded by one medium.

If the table was in water, the steel balls greater density would push the table down in water, right? Because water is less dense than the ground, and relative density comes into play once again.

You cannot ignore the ground as a medium below the table, it’s the most important thing here.

So why does the denser ball not push down the table on ground, but does in water, is their different densities. One greater than the ball, the other lesser than the ball.

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markjo

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Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2024, 09:49:49 PM »
The grounds mass is holding up the table. Which makes the table sturdier and gives it more density when on ground.
Would you please do us a favor and give us your definition of mass, density and weight, just so that we can see how they may differ from the mainstream physics definitions?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Username

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Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2024, 10:23:14 PM »
The whole youtube density nonsense solves no issues that other flat earth models haven't solved and introduces a whole mess of problems that they short sightedly ignore or fail to address. Until this changes, I don't understand why anybody seriously discusses it.
So long and thanks for all the fish

Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2024, 10:43:34 PM »
Mass and density exist, weight does not.

Weight is a made up term for a made up force, but mass is the one and only correct term for it.

They couldn’t explain how their made up force could pull down all objects of all masses at the same rate of acceleration and speed within air.

So they made up a term called weight, which is their mass acted on by their made up force gravity.

That still didn’t explain objects that rise up against the made up force, so they made up another force called buoyancy.

But it still doesn’t explain anything at all.

If there were such a force, it would act like all actual forces do. A pulling down force that will pull down and hold down almost all objects being of lesser mass and lesser of that same pulling down force, would act just like magnetic fiorce does within objects of magnetic properties to metallic objects. But every object, not specific objects. 

Magnetic force is proven to exist, and is consistent as a force, like all actual forces are.







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JackBlack

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Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2024, 11:55:04 AM »
An aluminum table is on the ground, and becomes part of the ground, it isn’t just a table of aluminum alone, it’s a table resting on solid ground.
So why doesn't water, with a steel ball then floating on that?

But also, the ground is not more dense than a steel ball.

The ground holds the object up, because it is solid and would need to be broken apart for the object to go through.

I’m specifically referring to objects within one medium, surrounded by one medium.
No, you weren't. That is obvious from your post:
Sand rests on denser soil, the soil rests on even denser rock.
The air rests on the surface of Earth, becoming a layer of denser air, and air above that layer is less dense than air below it, and so on upward with all the air.

Here you are specifically saying sand is resting on denser soil and that is resting on denser rock.
That is quite clearly NOT talking about an object surrounded by a medium.

If the table was in water, the steel balls greater density would push the table down in water, right?
No, the weight would.
If you got a material the same density as the table and placed that on top of the table, it would also push the table down, because you have increased the weight, so you need to increase the amount of fluid displaced.

So why does the denser ball not push down the table on ground, but does in water, is their different densities.
No, it isn't. As explained above.
A steel ball is denser than the ground. And we can go for even denser like lead or osmium. Far denser than Earth.
The difference is that the ground is solid while water is a liquid.
Water, being a liquid, can flow, and pushes things upwards by surface tension or a pressure differential (you know, that thing you still flee from because you can't explain?)

Nothing to do with density, and coherent with why a steel ball placed on an aluminium table doesn't magically phase through it.


Weight is a made up term for a made up force, but mass is the one and only correct term for it.
No it isn't.
Mass has no directionality, weight does.
Weight can be directly measured with various instruments.

They couldn’t explain how their made up force could pull down all objects of all masses at the same rate of acceleration and speed within air.
They could, quite trivially, with you just ignoring it and repeatedly lying about.

That still didn’t explain objects that rise up against the made up force
No, it directly explains the pressure gradient observed in fluids, and the resulting upwards force from this pressure gradient.
Again, you know that thing you need to continually flee from because you can't explain it at all?

If there were such a force, it would act like all actual forces do.
And it does. With you unable to show any fault and instead needing to repeatedly lie to everyone.

Magnetic force is proven to exist, and is consistent as a force, like all actual forces are.
Just like gravity.

If you want to claim magic density, explain what causes the pressure gradient and why this doesn't push things up.
Until you do, your claims remain refuted delusional BS.

Then you can address the other issues you have consistently fled from:
1 - Why down?
2 - Why that rate?
3 - Why doesn't the rate depend directly on density or even the difference in density?
4 - Why does the rate vary across Earth?

Simple questions you can't answer that show you are spouting pure BS.

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markjo

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Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2024, 03:05:04 PM »
Mass and density exist, weight does not.
I didn't ask you whether or not they exist, I asked you do define them.  So please answer the question that was asked,

Weight is a made up term for a made up force, but mass is the one and only correct term for it.
Oh?  What does your bathroom scale measure?  Why does your bag of potato chips say "sold by weight, not by volume)?

So they made up a term called weight, which is their mass acted on by their made up force gravity.
Actually weight is mass acted upon by any form of acceleration which includes, but is not limited to, gravity.  What do you think that fighter pilots mean when they talk about pulling g's?

That still didn’t explain objects that rise up against the made up force, so they made up another force called buoyancy.

But it still doesn’t explain anything at all.
What does it not explain?

If there were such a force, it would act like all actual forces do. A pulling down force that will pull down and hold down almost all objects being of lesser mass and lesser of that same pulling down force, would act just like magnetic fiorce does within objects of magnetic properties to metallic objects. But every object, not specific objects. 
Whether or not gravity is a force depends on who you ask.  According the Standard Model of particle physics, gravity is a fundamental force.  On the other hand, according to General Relativity, gravity is not a force, but curved space-time that influences the movement of matter.  In Newtonian classical mechanics (which is mostly what we're discussing here), gravity is generally treated as a form of acceleration as described by GR.

Magnetic force is proven to exist, and is consistent as a force, like all actual forces are.
Are you saying that there shouldn't be any difference between Newtonian forces (mass x acceleration) in classical mechanics and fundamental forces in particle physics?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2024, 11:52:00 PM »
The steel ball is only denser than one part of the entire ground, or one part of the whole sand in a desert.

Your made up force exists in the core of ball Earth, which you claim is its source, so everything should be pulled to the core, but nothing is pulled to that core. 

Actual forces don't use objects density and adjust equally by strength as if all were one object!

Wind emits one force of strength, and unlike your made up force, does not adjust its strength to objects of different mass or surface area.

You claim wind has more force used over larger surface areas, than smaller surface areas…

No, the whole area of a wind hits a larger surface area than a smaller area is hit with that same wind.

The variable is objects surface area which is hit by a wind.

Same as a current in a river, hits over an area along tge river as one force, spread over the river, will hit longer objects across it with more of its current force spanning across the rivet.

And they certainly never achieve the most amazing feat that your magical force can do, which doesn’t make any sense, just a stupid excuse they made up for it…

Forces don’t vary their strength, to any properties of the objects. It is the objects which are the variable in how much of that ONE SINGLE strength of a force which is variable in it. It’s one strength of force, always that one strength.

When they first spoke about a force unknown to exist at all, to theoretically be found to exist, but has yet to be discovered so far, they didn’t ever find a force at all, they always said it was a theoretical force, not proven to exist at all.

Because if they claimed this force was real, they’d have to show proof of it being a real force, and they had no proof it was real or existed at all.

What they did, was to gradually evolve it into a ‘real’ force over time. It’s never been real or proven to exist, it’s taken to be a real force, but it’s all bs.

They had and still have many problems. Forces don’t vary in strength outward, when it’s emitted from their sources…

They cannot, will not, do not vary in strength, except over more distance from their sources of origin.

Forces are sources of energy, emitted outward from their sources, and they lose strength over more distance outward from their sources of origin.

They cannot vary their strength of energy which they emit outward.

There cannot be an actual force which emits a single strength of energy outward, from its source of origin, acting on everything there, within the area nearest to it, then suddenly changes it’s one original strength it emitted outward, to whatever the level of strength needed to act out the same single rate on every and all objects it contacts!!

No force can do such a thing, and it proves no force is there at all.

The actual reason that all objects in air fall through it at the same speed and same acceleration, which cannot occur by any actual forces, are not due to a force. Not possible by any actual forces.

Actual forces have been proven to exist, can be demonstrated to exist.

Gravity is a made up bs concoction, sold as a theoretical force which has no proof of existing at all. Never was real, isn’t real, it’s all made up and utter bs that fails miserably.


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JackBlack

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Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2024, 01:50:34 PM »
The steel ball is only denser than one part of the entire ground, or one part of the whole sand in a desert.
No, the steel ball is denser than the ground in its entirety.

Your made up force exists in the core of ball Earth, which you claim is its source, so everything should be pulled to the core, but nothing is pulled to that core.
No, your STRAWMAN does.

But again, this pull is not magic. It cannot magically just pull objects so they occupy the same space. Not unless it is incredibly strong to overcome the forces that would hold the object together.

Actual forces don't use objects density and adjust equally by strength as if all were one object!
Again, actual forces are proportional to some property of the object.
We have been over this countless times, with you unable to defend your delusional BS.
For wind it is area.
For gravity it is mass.

Forces don’t vary their strength, to any properties of the objects. It is the objects which are the variable in how much of that ONE SINGLE strength of a force which is variable in it.
Which is just a game of semantics.
You have the one strength of gravity, the gravitational field, with it "hitting" a different mass. Just like your wind hits a different area.

Again, take 2 identical 1 kg blocks. What is the force on each from gravity?
Now join them together into a 2 kg block. What should the force be?
Should joining them magically cut down the force?
Or should the new force be the sum of the force on each part?

When they first spoke about a force unknown to exist at all
Again going to your fantasy.

Gravity was known to exist for quite some time.
And it has been proven to exist beyond any sane doubt. There are even experiments you can do which you refuse to because it will show you are wrong.

They had and still have many problems.
Yet you cannot demonstrate a single one.

Forces don’t vary in strength outward, when it’s emitted from their sources…
No, real forces typically do vary, often following an inverse square law or something else depending on the nature of the force.
And this is NOT the force on the object.
Instead it is the strength of the field. With some property of the object then effecting what the actual force is.

Just like wind has a certain strength, effectively the wind speed and density of the fluid.
But this will impact a different force onto objects based upon their area and shape.

They cannot, will not, do not vary in strength, except over more distance from their sources of origin.
Nor does gravity.

The actual reason that all objects in air fall through it at the same speed and same acceleration, which cannot occur by any actual forces, are not due to a force.
You keep asserting this BS, but you cannot justify it at all.

Actual forces have been proven to exist, can be demonstrated to exist.
Just like gravity.

And yet again, you flee from the pressure gradient because you know it kills your delusional BS

If you want to claim magic density, explain what causes the pressure gradient and why this doesn't push things up.
Until you do, your claims remain refuted delusional BS.

Then you can address the other issues you have consistently fled from:
1 - Why down?
2 - Why that rate?
3 - Why doesn't the rate depend directly on density or even the difference in density?
4 - Why does the rate vary across Earth?

Simple questions you can't answer that show you are spouting pure BS.

Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2024, 03:53:39 AM »
[quote{We have been over this countless times, with you unable to defend your delusional BS.
For wind it is area.
For gravity it is mass[/quote]

No, you haven’t a clue about it.

Wind is spread over an area, as a single force of strength.

That means each object hit by that span of wind, which is of one strength along its span, will be hit by various amounts of the one force of wind. The wind doesn’t add or reduce its strength of one level of force, the objects will be hit by a larger SPAN of the one wind force, or less of that span of force.

Wind is a force over an area, so it is an objects surface area which is the variable to how much of the one wind force that hits it.

If you claim your made up force emits one level of energy outward, it should act on all objects of different masses with that one level of strength.

Unlike wind which is a span over an area, where objects of various surface area are hit by various degrees of the spanning out force. The span of wind is the same the objects surface area is the variable here.

And once again, you ignore the worst most absurd feature of your goofy force.

This force would make all objects of different masses, after emitting out one level of force or strength from the ball Earth core, somehow, for no possible reason, after emitting out one level of force, detect or sense or indicate in some unknown way, each objects mass, instantly, and then, by another unknown way, instantly change its one level of strength, increasing or descreasing it, to the objects masses.

All of this is done by the made up force, because it wants to make sure they’re all pulled down by its force at the same rate! 

Nobody also knows why it chose this specific rate to pull all things down at either,

These things aren’t important to explain with a force that’s been made up, anyway.

Right, all of that just happens because you say it does.

What a stupid, convoluted story you need to make up, stretched.beyond even most fairy tales.   

The worst part is that your made up force must have an explanation for why it would pull different masses down at the same rate, when there is absolutely nothing that can ever explain that.

It’s nonsensical. Forces don’t know or detect things of objects it hits, let alone adjust its strength to the objects, and balance them out equally to respond the same way to that force.

Truly insane



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JackBlack

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Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2024, 01:58:29 PM »
No, you haven’t a clue about it.
I clearly do. Because you keep just repeating the same pathetic BS without even attempting to address what I said.

Look at how much you continually flee from simple questions that show you are spouting delusional BS.

Wind is spread over an area, as a single force of strength.

That means each object hit by that span of wind, which is of one strength along its span, will be hit by various amounts of the one force of wind. The wind doesn’t add or reduce its strength of one level of force, the objects will be hit by a larger SPAN of the one wind force, or less of that span of force.

Wind is a force over an area, so it is an objects surface area which is the variable to how much of the one wind force that hits it.
Again, you can do the same with gravity:
"Gravity is spread over a mass, as a single force of strength.

That means each object hit by that span of gravity, which is of one strength along its span, will be hit by various amounts of the one force of gravity. The gravity doesn’t add or reduce its strength of one level of force, the objects will be hit by a larger SPAN of the one gravity force, or less of that span of force.

Gravity is a force over a mass, so it is an objects mass which is the variable to how much of the one gravity force that hits it."

This force would make all objects of different masses, after emitting out one level of force or strength from the ball Earth core, somehow, for no possible reason, after emitting out one level of force, detect or sense or indicate in some unknown way, each objects mass
No more so than wind detects the area.

Again, gravity acts on each bit of mass.

You would expect the same force in a 2 kg mass as you would in the combined sum of two separate 1 kg masses

Nobody also knows why it chose this specific rate to pull all things down at either,
It didn't choose a specific rate no more so than magnets chose a specific force.

It is a constant of proportionality just like other real fundamental forces. It then depends upon this constant, as well as the mass and distance to the primary (and its distribution of mass).
And as pointed out, it isn't a constant rate. It varies over Earth.

These things aren’t important to explain with a force that’s been made up, anyway.
Which is why you refuse to make any attempt to do so and instead just keep repeating the same pathetic BS.

The worst part is that your made up force must have an explanation for why it would pull different masses down at the same rate
Again, not a made up force.
A real force you can verify exists yourself, which you choose not to because you want to live in a fantasy.
And this real force can explain it, with that explanation provided to you repeatedly.

Once more, take two identical separate 1 kg objects. Each of these will accelerate downwards at the same rate, based upon the force of gravity acting on each.
Now join them together. The same force is acting on each part of the object.
Why should it magically change because they are now 1 object?
That means the ratio of force to mass remains the same so the acceleration remains the same.

Not hard to understand.

It’s nonsensical. Forces don’t know or detect things of objects it hits, let alone adjust its strength to the objects, and balance them out equally to respond the same way to that force.
Nor does gravity.
So yes, your BS is truly insane nonsense.

Now again, care to address the simple issues you keep fleeing from?

If you want to claim magic density, explain what causes the pressure gradient and why this doesn't push things up.
Until you do, your claims remain refuted delusional BS.

Then you can address the other issues you have consistently fled from:
1 - Why down?
2 - Why that rate?
3 - Why doesn't the rate depend directly on density or even the difference in density?
4 - Why does the rate vary across Earth?

Simple questions you can't answer that show you are spouting pure BS.

Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2025, 02:46:19 AM »
No, you’re trying to say your made up force will emit one level of strength outward, yet will vary its strength equally to all objects of different masses, to pull them all down as if they’re the same mass.

Only your made up force makes objects act the same way to a force.

Magnets don’t pull all objects of different masses in the same way or same rate of speed pulling them in!

No force acts on different objects and masses or surface areas and adjusts them to act equally as if they’re one sane object!

You said a wind uses more or less force by surface area of objects.

Gravity would adjust for different surface areas and make them move the same distance! That’s what you forgot to mention! For good reason, it’s stupid as hell to say such crap!

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markjo

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Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2025, 10:10:37 AM »
Magnets don’t pull all objects of different masses in the same way or same rate of speed pulling them in!
Magnets don't pull all objects, period.  Magnets only pull (or push) certain materials with certain properties.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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JackBlack

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Re: Density doesnt make things go up or down, gravity does.
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2025, 01:06:38 PM »
No, you’re trying to say your made up force will emit one level of strength outward, yet will vary its strength equally to all objects of different masses, to pull them all down as if they’re the same mass.
No, I am saying the real force of gravity behaves in a manner similar to wind. There is one "strength" for wind that is the speed and density, for gravity is the strength of the gravitational field (or curvature of spacetime). This then acts on the different objects resulting in a force proportional to the area for wind or mass for gravity.

I am showing how your BS attempt to get out of proportional forces for wind works equally well for gravity.
To show how you are lying to everyone.

No force acts on different objects and masses or surface areas and adjusts them to act equally as if they’re one sane object!
Except in cases where whatever the force is proportional to is also proportional to the mass.
For example in a magnetic field all objects travelling at the same velocity with the same mass to charge ratio will be deflected the same.
In an electric field, all objects with the same mass to charge ratio will be accelerated the same.
For wind, all objects with the same shape and the same surface area to mass ratio will be accelerated the same.

The only way in which gravity is special, is that the thing it is proportional to is mass.
Or alternatively, for all known substances, the gravitational mass and inertial mass have a single constant of proportionality, typically taken to be 1.

You said a wind uses more or less force by surface area of objects.
I said wind applies a force proportional to the surface area of an object.
Just like gravity does based upon mass.

Gravity would adjust for different surface areas
No, gravity is based upon mass, not surface area.

Now again, care to address the simple issues you keep fleeing from?

If you want to claim magic density, explain what causes the pressure gradient and why this doesn't push things up.
Until you do, your claims remain refuted delusional BS.

Then you can address the other issues you have consistently fled from:
1 - Why down?
2 - Why that rate?
3 - Why doesn't the rate depend directly on density or even the difference in density?
4 - Why does the rate vary across Earth?

Simple questions you can't answer that show you are spouting pure BS.