The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun

Quote from: Smoke Machine on November 27, 2024, 01:32:39 AM

As all flat earthers will learn one day, is the truth never changes.

They will never learn that. They don't have a conception of truth, to them the truth is just what is convenient to them at any given time.

Well, it does seem to be a competition as to who can be the silliest.

Like I've said repeatedly, if they just want to ignore or deny everything pertaining to the earth being a globe and outer space, that would be fine, but they can't. A flat earther could potentially be that person who lives only within their immediate environment with no thought to worldwide matters, but they can't - they have to be silly.

I was talking to a friend earlier today who was telling me all about her Cruise ship expedition to Antarctica where they all trekked into Antarctica itself, exploring the continent. It cost her $20,000, and is probably outside the budget for most unemployable flat earthers.

The "final" experiment will be the final experiment for SOME flat earthers. NOT ALL flat earthers, mind you, but a percentage.

The "final" experiment refers to the final experiment to settle the debate which is accepted by a percentage of flat earthers and they accept will either solidify their flat earth belief or cause them to renounce and totally turn their back on it.

Somebody should start a poll for flat earthers for an indication of how many flat earthers on this site will be converted as a result of the final experiment.

Well, it does seem to be a competition as to who can be the silliest.

Like I've said repeatedly, if they just want to ignore or deny everything pertaining to the earth being a globe and outer space, that would be fine, but they can't. A flat earther could potentially be that person who lives only within their immediate environment with no thought to worldwide matters, but they can't - they have to be silly.

What they can't handle, and are running from, is being ignored. They crave attention, even negative attention is better than being ignored. This is what they have hit upon to get attention, and "being silly" is one apt description. Another would be "systematized trolling" in the strict sense of that word.

The "final" experiment will be the final experiment for SOME flat earthers. NOT ALL flat earthers, mind you, but a percentage.

The "final" experiment refers to the final experiment to settle the debate which is accepted by a percentage of flat earthers and they accept will either solidify their flat earth belief or cause them to renounce and totally turn their back on it.

You are probably right that a percentage, a small one I think, will turn their back on FE as a result of the Experiment. This would be the small number of people who have been caught up in it and do have a conception of truth, and another cohort who see it as a chance to get attention through denouncing other FEers as frauds on this basis and/or feel they have to now look elsewhere for it. Ridicule is the one kind of attention they can't consume. Among the people who will be turned off by it are Alex Stein and Candace Owens. They have too much to lose to have this light shone on them.

Another thing that may happen is infighting within FE and the possible demise of the "rim" model.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on November 27, 2024, 08:44:15 PM

Well, it does seem to be a competition as to who can be the silliest.

Like I've said repeatedly, if they just want to ignore or deny everything pertaining to the earth being a globe and outer space, that would be fine, but they can't. A flat earther could potentially be that person who lives only within their immediate environment with no thought to worldwide matters, but they can't - they have to be silly.

What they can't handle, and are running from, is being ignored. They crave attention, even negative attention is better than being ignored. This is what they have hit upon to get attention, and "being silly" is one apt description. Another would be "systematized trolling" in the strict sense of that word.

I agree that Flat Earth could be viewed as a form of trolling, for sure. They are trolling anybody who dares accept the mainstream view the earth is a globe, by trying to say if a person cannot prove earth curvature, then that person has to concede the Earth is Flat.

The 24 hour sun in the Arctic Region for Flat Earthers, is not in dispute, as somehow flat Earther's justify that as the sun moving closer in a circle around the Arctic. On their dinner plate model, which is the most widely accepted flat earth model, the 24 hour sun in the Antarctic, is impossible.

For those particular flat earthers, a 24 hour sun in the Antarctic, being that it is accepted there is only one sun and not multiple suns, and the Antarctic is a wall rim of the dinner plate earth, is damming proof, the dinner plate flat earth model, is a pile of dog shit. Thus, for those flat earthers, a 24 hour sun in Antarctica proves Earth curvature and means, Earth is a globe.

That fact that 24 hour sunlight in Antarctica, coincides simultaneously with 24 hours of night in the Arctic, and vice versa in Antarctica winter, makes the conclusion inescapable to the sane person.

A video addressing some of the arguments against the validity of the Experiment.

A video addressing some of the arguments against the validity of the Experiment.

Are you satisfied from his video that there are variables involved, including sunspots and the sun being seen from different other locations before and after the experiment, which quantify it to be an experiment, and not just an observation?

I am.

Experiments do involve observing.

The Final Observation sounds possibly better than the Final Experiment, but it's the same thing at the end of the day. Why split hairs?

There are more arguments in favour of the validity of the experiment, in that video, than against. I mean, what are flat earthers going to say about it? The same sunspots on the sun, seen from every location, should prove there is only one sun, and not multiple suns. If there is one sun, flat earthers will be forced to explain 24 hour sunlight in Antarctica. Simple.

Are you satisfied from his video that there are variables involved, including sunspots and the sun being seen from different other locations before and after the experiment, which quantify it to be an experiment, and not just an observation?

I am.

Experiments do involve observing.
[/quote]

Actually, to be pedantic, I don't agree that the F. Experiment is what the title says. It's an observation.

This comes from my own definition of an experiment, which may or may not have wider currency.

An experiment involves an observation and some kind of manipulation that causes the observed phenomenon to occur. Videoing a shooting star is an observation. Causing a satellite to go into reentry and videoing that is an experiment.

Do I think it is an important distinction? No. The title needs to capture attention. It's marketing. What is important is what is done, not what it is titled. But there is indeed a class of people who are more interested in the wrapping than the content.

Are you satisfied from his video that there are variables involved, including sunspots and the sun being seen from different other locations before and after the experiment, which quantify it to be an experiment, and not just an observation?

I am.

Experiments do involve observing.

Actually, to be pedantic, I don't agree that the F. Experiment is what the title says. It's an observation.

This comes from my own definition of an experiment, which may or may not have wider currency.

An experiment involves an observation and some kind of manipulation that causes the observed phenomenon to occur. Videoing a shooting star is an observation. Causing a satellite to go into reentry and videoing that is an experiment.

Do I think it is an important distinction? No. The title needs to capture attention. It's marketing. What is important is what is done, not what it is titled. But there is indeed a class of people who are more interested in the wrapping than the content.
[/quote]

Certain class of people, as in high stakes flat earthers, you mean?

Conducted simultaneously with participants on various parts of the globe as well as Antarctica, the sun's position closest to the horizon in Antarctica, should align with where the sun  is being seen in the sky over those other various parts of the world.

The chance it might not, is a variable. So, it is an experiment to see if the 24 hour sun is observed in Antarctica, and is observed in the sky in other parts of the world, which align with what the globe model predicts. If viewed as lots of simultaneous worldwide observations to test the globe model, then "experiment" works just fine.

Everybody knows how a movie or tv series about the fated maiden voyage of "The Titanic" will end, right? It's the same with the flat earth movement.  We all know where it will end.

Permanently caught in the headlights, Mark Sargent, says the flat earth movement is growing stronger every year, but where are the statistics on that? More likely, it is growing weaker and becoming more submerged like the Titanic, every year.

Everybody knows how a movie or tv series about the fated maiden voyage of "The Titanic" will end, right? It's the same with the flat earth movement.  We all know where it will end.

Permanently caught in the headlights, Mark Sargent, says the flat earth movement is growing stronger every year, but where are the statistics on that? More likely, it is growing weaker and becoming more submerged like the Titanic, every year.

Don't be so sure. Few people expected much of the bolsheviks back in the day. They were just another loony fringe.

Flat Earth is a phenomenon which appeals to a class of people which is not going to disappear. Through social media they grow stronger. Let's not forget, these people are immune to facts and logic. The Experiment is going to mean nothing to most of them.

Conducted simultaneously with participants on various parts of the globe as well as Antarctica, the sun's position closest to the horizon in Antarctica, should align with where the sun  is being seen in the sky over those other various parts of the world.

The chance it might not, is a variable. So, it is an experiment to see if the 24 hour sun is observed in Antarctica, and is observed in the sky in other parts of the world, which align with what the globe model predicts. If viewed as lots of simultaneous worldwide observations to test the globe model, then "experiment" works just fine.

This spiel about variables in the video is a non-sequitur as far as I'm concerned. All experiments involve variables, and all observations do as well, so this is not a discriminating factor.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 01, 2024, 11:14:00 AM

Everybody knows how a movie or tv series about the fated maiden voyage of "The Titanic" will end, right? It's the same with the flat earth movement.  We all know where it will end.

Permanently caught in the headlights, Mark Sargent, says the flat earth movement is growing stronger every year, but where are the statistics on that? More likely, it is growing weaker and becoming more submerged like the Titanic, every year.

Don't be so sure. Few people expected much of the bolsheviks back in the day. They were just another loony fringe.

Flat Earth is a phenomenon which appeals to a class of people which is not going to disappear. Through social media they grow stronger. Let's not forget, these people are immune to facts and logic. The Experiment is going to mean nothing to most of them.

If you're looking to equate most flat earthers with a class of people, I'd be looking at highest educational level.

You hear all the time that people with degrees in this and that are flat earthers, but I have my doubts about that. I mean, look at the self proclaimed flat earthers on this site for example. Do you seriously think any of them hold a degree in anything?

If they are immune to facts and logic, what does that actually mean for the rest of us? Aside from this crazy belief they have, how will their behaviour differ, or threaten the rest of society?

I'm certain their are some countries where they would just be rounded up and disposed of.

If you're looking to equate most flat earthers with a class of people, I'd be looking at highest educational level.

You hear all the time that people with degrees in this and that are flat earthers, but I have my doubts about that. I mean, look at the self proclaimed flat earthers on this site for example. Do you seriously think any of them hold a degree in anything?

Leaving present company aside, youtubers and media personalities that identify as FE are obviously deficient in understanding of science and nature (provide a counterexample, anyone).  They are a broadly similar group to creationists and other pseudoscience followers.

Actually, to be pedantic, I don't agree that the F. Experiment is what the title says. It's an observation.

What's in a name?  That which we call observational experiment, by any other name should be so useful. 

Seriously, don't get hung up on the name and ignore whole point of what's trying to be shown.

If they are immune to facts and logic, what does that actually mean for the rest of us? Aside from this crazy belief they have, how will their behaviour differ, or threaten the rest of society?

They will abandon their beliefs under certain circumstances, but not as a result of facts and logic. They will if their continued belonging causes them mental harm, which can be the result of being ridiculed, or if they fear for their physical safety, or of they cease to derive pleasure from belonging, or some or all of the above. What they are interested in is power, control, attention (positive and negative) and causing havoc. This is their pathetic route to achieve those ends, because their talents are insufficient to achieve them in more reasonable ways. This is a latent threat to the rest of society, because if this group of individuals achieves some sort of mainstream recognition, they WILL leverage it in destructive ways.

I'm certain their are some countries where they would just be rounded up and disposed of.

Very possibly. In our permissive society they are tolerated. In other, some would say more primitive societies, they would be at risk of physical harm in some cases.

What's in a name?  That which we call observational experiment, by any other name should be so useful. 

Seriously, don't get hung up on the name and ignore whole point of what's trying to be shown.

That is more or less what I said.

You certainly have strong and detailed beliefs about individuals who share a belief you dont. Why the passion, energy and message?

It appears passive aggressive at best, but probably has you commited to the idea's of your own invention for personal reasons.

I invite you to not collectivly judge people by their beliefs you react to out of reflex. It belies a serious personality fault, mainly, you have no tolerance for differences in culture and beleif. You also sound like you ignore the research and scientific aspects of the debate completely. Am I wrong?

Maybe you havnt been given the time of day to have some knowedge share that could help you change how you prejudice people about FE inquiry and belief. If you can see what they see, and accept that waas a deal break for their GE belief syatem, you could live more lightly..

<3

Thanks

You certainly have strong and detailed beliefs about individuals who share a belief you dont. Why the passion, energy and message?

It appears passive aggressive at best, but probably has you commited to the idea's of your own invention for personal reasons.

I invite you to not collectivly judge people by their beliefs you react to out of reflex. It belies a serious personality fault, mainly, you have no tolerance for differences in culture and beleif. You also sound like you ignore the research and scientific aspects of the debate completely. Am I wrong?

Maybe you havnt been given the time of day to have some knowedge share that could help you change how you prejudice people about FE inquiry and belief. If you can see what they see, and accept that waas a deal break for their GE belief syatem, you could live more lightly..

<3

Thanks

I have seen a lot of what you mention. Sometimes it is lies, like our friend who posts videos of the sunset through a hazy horizon. Sometimes it is a wordsalad of superficially scientific observations but lacks coherence and context. Sometimes it is fully unhinged, like our friend who told us the sun looked a bit funny in the sky.

For one thing I have proposed on these pages a simple experiment that would potentially disprove the Round Earth. No takers whatsoever. Can you explain that FEers are not interested in disproving the globe?

Can you give me a good reason why I should give credit to what is obviously nonsense?

You certainly have strong and detailed beliefs about individuals who share a belief you dont. Why the passion, energy and message?

It appears passive aggressive at best, but probably has you commited to the idea's of your own invention for personal reasons.

I invite you to not collectivly judge people by their beliefs you react to out of reflex. It belies a serious personality fault, mainly, you have no tolerance for differences in culture and beleif. You also sound like you ignore the research and scientific aspects of the debate completely. Am I wrong?

Maybe you havnt been given the time of day to have some knowedge share that could help you change how you prejudice people about FE inquiry and belief. If you can see what they see, and accept that waas a deal break for their GE belief syatem, you could live more lightly..

<3

Thanks

Oh? What's the serious personality fault, judging flat earthers, bellies?

That being uneducated, spreading misinformation, and offering fantasy for people to live their lives by, should be encouraged?

No. It should be discouraged. Delusions lead people to make poor and sometimes, dangerous decisions.

Flat Earthers see the trees and can't see the forest because of the trees. Simple.

Any research which arrives at the conclusion there is no earth curvature and the entire earth is flat and not a globe, is flawed or erroneous research.

Has the infighting within FE already begun?

Are Jeranism, Witsit and Acosta shills?

Some of the people here are kinda bad vibes .......any personal reasons or just .......this sociopathic narccissism thats been going around.

Do presume to tell me what I am-  mono eh mono, j/s. lol It helps!

Happy hunting

Some of the people here are kinda bad vibes .......any personal reasons or just .......this sociopathic narccissism thats been going around.

Do presume to tell me what I am-  mono eh mono, j/s. lol It helps!

Happy hunting

You're not making any sense.

This isn't your deer hunting forum.

Did you type that post after guzzling down a carton of beer?

Would this convince you?

Or are you so arrogant that you refuse to even consider for a moment that you could be mistaken?

Are Jeranism, Witsit and Acosta shills?

Dubay mentions some of them by name as being shills. Also, this video above shows a midnight sun but the earlier video does not. As I believe in a flat Earth at outward concentric plane, the early video is more plausible.

This isn't your dear hunting forum.

The animal is spelled "deer."

 "Dear" is your girlfriend.

If you don't take in anything about being wrong about flat Earth, you ought to at least learn that your spelling is incorrect.

Would this convince you?

Or are you so arrogant that you refuse to even consider for a moment that you could be mistaken?

I watched the video. What exactly might I be convinced of?

One thing I did notice is that Dubay is a liar. He demonstrably lies at 2:20.

Would this convince you?

You mean lying scum trying to deflect at all costs. Just like you do?
Where the majority of the video is spent just throwing out insults and BS, before they even get to the point of trying to justify the midnight sun in Antarctica?
There is still no coherent model of a FE that can explain it without just pushing the problem somewhere else.

Mr. Jack, I think it would be strong move for you to moderate your tone.

Has the infighting within FE already begun?

Meh.  The infighting within FE has already been going on for long time.  Eric Dubay has been calling just about every other FE'er a shill for years.

Quote from: Torve on December 02, 2024, 01:27:36 AM

Has the infighting within FE already begun?

Meh.  The infighting within FE has already been going on for long time.  Eric Dubay has been calling just about every other FE'er a shill for years.

Then perhaps I should change the question.

Are all FEers shills?

I think that FE is a case study of Poe's law in action.  It's impossible to tell the difference between a true believer and a dedicated troll.