Is FE a Christian heresy?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on January 26, 2025, 01:00:45 PM

In this Psalm, the heavens are described as a firmament, the sky is a booth where the sun enters into and out of, and it goes in a circuit around the sky instead of the Earth going around the sun.
Yeah, you may not agree with FE. But it's not a heresy. Rather it is part of the original OT teaching of the nature of the world.

Say it with me:

Geocentrism/Heliocentrism has NOTHING to do with the shape of the Earth.

Geocentrism/Heliocentrism has NOTHING to do with the shape of the Earth.

Geocentrism/Heliocentrism has NOTHING to do with the shape of the Earth.

Here is a geocentric round Earth.



The show is silly. So is that idea.

The final experiment decimates your flat earth rim model like a nuclear bomb going off, and you cannot handle it, so you resort to inventing pathetic excuses.

It's funny that you mention a nuke going off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fishbowl
The government had a number of code named projects after discovering "Antarctica" (or rather the rim). Among these was Operation Fishbowl, whereupon they used nukes to try to attack the firmament. Or as wikipedia puts it, "high altitude nuclear tests." But wiki's explanation falls apart when you realize if there isn't a firmament (and thus nothing to attack), quick question... what exactly were they firing nukes upward for? No, that's rhetorical.

So of the 3 FEers who went, you don't know 1.5 names?
How do you know that they aren't real FE'ers if you don't know who they are?

Actually, I don't know any of their names. In the the film The Painted Veil, a man takes a woman who has been cheating on him to Asia. He spends his life's work and ends up dying, building an irrigation system for one country. Later, her kid notices that some guy (the one she was cheating with before) seems to know her, and asks "Who was that, mommy?" She says, "No one important, darling."

These people have done nothing special for me.

All I know about these people is that the moment they went to Antarctica, they started shilling from RE.

These people's names are important to you, because like my dad talked about in a sermon about Nehemiah, we tend to name people who are part of our groups. So the fact that you know their names and I don't is because I never considered them my allies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fishbowl
The government had a number of code named projects after discovering "Antarctica" (or rather the rim). Among these was Operation Fishbowl, whereupon they used nukes to try to attack the firmament. Or as wikipedia puts it, "high altitude nuclear tests." But wiki's explanation falls apart when you realize if there isn't a firmament (and thus nothing to attack), quick question... what exactly were they firing nukes upward for? No, that's rhetorical.

Did you even bother reading the wiki article that you provided?

Why would they "attack the firmament" and risk possibly flooding the earth?

These people have done nothing special for me.

I hate to break it to you, but it's not all about you.

All I know about these people is that the moment they went to Antarctica, they started shilling from RE.

You do realize that YouTube FE'ers make money from their videos and/or sponsorship.  Why would they risk their income stream by shilling for RE?

These people's names are important to you, because like my dad talked about in a sermon about Nehemiah, we tend to name people who are part of our groups. So the fact that you know their names and I don't is because I never considered them my allies.

Those names are (or at least, were) fairly important to the FE community.  The fact that you don't know their names means that you are looking at FE from a very limited point of view and limited resources. 

Personally, I find it very strange that you are so passionate about FE, but are so unwilling to do any work to learn more about it.

I hate to break it to you, but it's not all about you.

You're one of those people living under the delusion that humans aren't ultimately self-interested. The sorta altruism myth.

If I meet a person and their first action is to rape me, I either learn their name or try to forget it. If they simply aren't interesting, then it's more likely I won't even ask their name.

Half the time, you guys run together tbh. It's not about you either. You just all come across as similar because you all argue the same stupid stuff. Jack Black is particularly annoying, and I think kabool is like "If you could only expand your mind, I could educate you on this." Sorry dude, I told you. I came from that crap. The rest of you, if I removed your name and avatar, I couldn't tell apart the text.

It's not about me. It's precisely because of that, that if I'm not invested in someone I don't care enough to learn who they are. If you were more personable, and stopped trying to convince me of things I don't care about, that might be different.

You do realize that YouTube FE'ers make money from their videos and/or sponsorship.  Why would they risk their income stream by shilling for RE?

Eric Dubay, one of the better known FE gurus, has only 221K subscribers. There's first of all a view and subscriber threshold for monetization. Then Youtube has this to say:

A key eligibility requirement for YPP is to follow YouTube monetization policies, which include YouTube’s Community Guidelines, Terms of Service, and Google AdSense program policies. These policies apply to a Creator’s channel as a whole, and not just individual videos.

You have to play ball with Youtube and Google, both of which actively hate the FE community.
Or have you not noticed this banner?

For that matter, some flat Earth stuff gets downgraded by their algorithms.

One of the things he talks about are how like the first actual flat Earth content in a given search was around the 95th video.

"They're making so much money! Why would they sell out?"

Here is a geocentric round Earth.

Based on what?

The fact they are travelling around the stars indicates it is not likely to be geocentric.

It's funny that you mention a nuke going off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fishbowl

Which has nothing at all to do with FE or the firmament, but that doesn't stop liars like you boldly proclaiming it is.

But wiki's explanation falls apart when you realize if there isn't a firmament (and thus nothing to attack), quick question... what exactly were they firing nukes upward for?

You mean your ability to comprehend falls apart.

They literally have a section labelled research directions indicating what they are doing.
None of it has anything to do with your delusional firmament.

All I know about these people is that the moment they went to Antarctica, they started shilling from RE.

How?
Again, why not be honest?
Once they went to Antarctica and realised your delusional fantasy is wrong, they started accepting more of the truth and admitted FE is BS.
No basis to conclude they are shills.
No basis to conclude they were never FEers.

That is just your delusional fantasy and paranoia talking.

These people's names are important to you

No, they aren't.
I don't care about them at all.
I just know one from liars like you appealing to them.

You're one of those people living under the delusion that humans aren't ultimately self-interested.

What they said didn't even indicate anything like that.
Instead, it is more about how the world isn't about you, no matter how much you want to pretend it is.
It is calling you out for being so self-interested.

Sorry dude, I told you. I came from that crap.

No, you came from actual crap, with a pathetic education where you didn't understand pretty much anything about the RE model, so you just rejected it without understanding it.

Eric Dubay, one of the better known FE gurus, has only 221K subscribers.

And how many are loyal cultists that watch every video he makes?
The view count is far more important.

There's first of all a view and subscriber threshold for monetization.

And have you bothered seeing what that is?
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/94522?sjid=2131891433618057376-AP

1000 subscribers, and either 4000 watch hours per year or 10 million shorts view over 90 days.
Just looking at the videos from the past few months, one is a 58 minute long video with 22k views.
If each viewer watched roughly 20% that would already hit the 4000 watch hours.
So that criteria is easily met by him.

Then Youtube has this to say:

Quote

A key eligibility requirement for YPP is to follow YouTube monetization policies, which include YouTube’s Community Guidelines, Terms of Service, and Google AdSense program policies. These policies apply to a Creator’s channel as a whole, and not just individual videos.

You have to play ball with Youtube and Google, both of which actively hate the FE community.
Or have you not noticed this banner?

Do you mean the banner which will appear on some videos but not all?
For both REers and FEers?

But more importantly, he has a patreon as well.
There good little cultists pay him directly, without youtube or Google stopping them.

Quote

I hate to break it to you, but it's not all about you.

You're one of those people living under the delusion that humans aren't ultimately self-interested. The sorta altruism myth.

If I meet a person and their first action is to rape me, I either learn their name or try to forget it. If they simply aren't interesting, then it's more likely I won't even ask their name.

Half the time, you guys run together tbh. It's not about you either. You just all come across as similar because you all argue the same stupid stuff. Jack Black is particularly annoying, and I think kabool is like "If you could only expand your mind, I could educate you on this." Sorry dude, I told you. I came from that crap. The rest of you, if I removed your name and avatar, I couldn't tell apart the text.

It's not about me. It's precisely because of that, that if I'm not invested in someone I don't care enough to learn who they are. If you were more personable, and stopped trying to convince me of things I don't care about, that might be different.

Quote

You do realize that YouTube FE'ers make money from their videos and/or sponsorship.  Why would they risk their income stream by shilling for RE?

Eric Dubay, one of the better known FE gurus, has only 221K subscribers. There's first of all a view and subscriber threshold for monetization. Then Youtube has this to say:

Quote

A key eligibility requirement for YPP is to follow YouTube monetization policies, which include YouTube’s Community Guidelines, Terms of Service, and Google AdSense program policies. These policies apply to a Creator’s channel as a whole, and not just individual videos.

You have to play ball with Youtube and Google, both of which actively hate the FE community.
Or have you not noticed this banner?

For that matter, some flat Earth stuff gets downgraded by their algorithms.

One of the things he talks about are how like the first actual flat Earth content in a given search was around the 95th video.

"They're making so much money! Why would they sell out?"

Did you really just accuse me of making posts as lame and boring as either Data's or Torve's??

Believe me, as boring as their posts are, if ever I'm struggling to get to sleep, I'll read one of Jack Black's posts. I save his posts to read, for those times I can't get to sleep, which is why I take so long to respond to some posts he makes to me sometimes. My Jack Black anti-insomnia bank of unread posts, is always full and ready to send me to sleep.

Just so you know, I can't differentiate your posts from Turbonium's. Wise is the only flat earther here who has my full respect.

If the shoe fits, wear it, Person Whose Name I Don't Know.

Get good.

Turbonium has a different idea about gravity, as noted in Three Flat Earthers, Three Different Notions Of Gravity.

That's the thing about flat Earthers. They tend to be independent of formalized teaching because any potential teachers could go the shill route and try to convince them all this was leading up to re-accepting RE. So the only things in common to flat Earthers are a certain wariness from having people they trust turn on them, and a certain humility from realizing they were wrong about RE back when they believed it. And a certain level of stubbornness I suppose. FE theories can be wildly different. I believe the moon's phases have nothing to do with the moon's being hit by sunlight, and the moon is actually casting light internally (if it were an obstructing object, one of the more common theories, quarter moon doesn't make sense with how straight the line is; and light shown on the moon wouldn't move from a curved spolight effect to a square halfway through) and is making that pattern as it charges up and powers down.

The difference between me and Turbonium is that I write novels. Bad novels, mind you. But yeah, I have novels.
https://www.scribblehub.com/profile/55589/bulmabriefs144/

Turbonium has a different idea about gravity, as noted in Three Flat Earthers, Three Different Notions Of Gravity.

That's the thing about flat Earthers. They tend to be independent of formalized teaching because any potential teachers could go the shill route and try to convince them all this was leading up to re-accepting RE. So the only things in common to flat Earthers are a certain wariness from having people they trust turn on them, and a certain humility from realizing they were wrong about RE back when they believed it. And a certain level of stubbornness I suppose. FE theories can be wildly different. I believe the moon's phases have nothing to do with the moon's being hit by sunlight, and the moon is actually casting light internally (if it were an obstructing object, one of the more common theories, quarter moon doesn't make sense with how straight the line is; and light shown on the moon wouldn't move from a curved spolight effect to a square halfway through) and is making that pattern as it charges up and powers down.

I would say it quite differently.

See with REers, there is a coherent model which works to describe reality. We can all use the same model, which works.

But for FE, there is no coherent model. There is no coherent explanation of why things fall which can actually withstand scrutiny. The closest I have seen is gravity with an infinite flat Earth, but that still has massive issues.
So instead, you come up with your insane ideas with no basis in reality and not care if they contradict each other.
Turbo can't even stick to one idea and instead needs to switch back and forth between 2 different, contradictory ideas. Neither of which makes sense.

But importantly, what this truly shows is that the majority of the FEers are wrong about how it works and are not coming up with a model based on reality.

It isn't humility you have, it is arrogance. If it was actually humility you would recognise you could be wrong about being wrong about RE; you would recognise you could have just completley misunderstood the model and rejected it due to that lack of understanding and accept that Earth could potentially be round and be open to hearing explanations of how things work with a RE and be open to potentially then accepting that Earth is round.
But instead, with your extreme arrogance you act like there is no possible way you could have been wrong about that and there is no possible way for Earth to be round.
Even after it has been repeatedly demonstrated that so many of your claims about the RE are outright lies, and what you claim does not come from the model at all.

Likewise, that humility would include you accepting you might be wrong about thinking Earth is flat, so when so many things don't work with a flat Earth you would accept Earth is not flat.
Instead, with your extreme arrogance you act like there is no possible way you could be wrong, and so do whatever you can to make excuses to pretend it could work on a flat Earth, or dismiss things as lies, or just entirely ignore things.

Quote

You do realize that YouTube FE'ers make money from their videos and/or sponsorship.  Why would they risk their income stream by shilling for RE?

Eric Dubay, one of the better known FE gurus, has only 221K subscribers. There's first of all a view and subscriber threshold for monetization.

Among other things, Eric Dubay wrote and sells several FE related books on Amazon.  He most certainly has a financial interest in FE.

BTW, you seem to know a fair bit about Eric Dubay, so you probably already know that he considers just about every other prominent (and not so prominent) FE'er to be a shill and/or controlled opposition.  Is that why you don't looking into other prominent FE'ers?  Does the cult of Eric Dubay feel so warm and fuzzy that you don't need to look elsewhere for your FE knowledge.

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that a search of Flat Earth usually involves about 50 or round Earth videos that I have to wade through. There's a bald dude who did the "Should the sun appear to shrink" video.

But for the most part, having flat Earth videos delisted and/or shoved way down the searches means that I tend not to look into them. It's too damned hard to search when you don't know their names offhand.

Yes, he does write books.

But his 200 Proofs is also a video watchable for free.


Did you know that most of my books are also free? And I think my yearly income as a writer has been less than $20. If his primary motive were to make money, he could do a great deal worse.

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that a search of Flat Earth usually involves about 50 or round Earth videos that I have to wade through.

Gee.  If only there were some other, if somewhat roundabout, way of finding some of the more prominent YouTube FE channels.  Like, maybe from the competition.
https://www.the-final-experiment.com/interviews

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that a search of Flat Earth usually involves about 50 or round Earth videos that I have to wade through.

Or you could try being intellectually honest and watching them as well.

Did you know that most of my books are also free? And I think my yearly income as a writer has been less than $20. If his primary motive were to make money, he could do a great deal worse.

And do you have a cult following?

Or you could try being intellectually honest and watching them as well.

Golly, indoctrinating myself when I was searching for the exact opposite topic does sound intellectually honest.

If you were honest, you'd admit there is a wee bit of bias.

But surely if you're being intellectually honest, by that idea, you'd agree to watch the an equal number of films of my choosing. I never said they were all flat Earth films either.

Alright then, no posting while I round them up.

Nahhh let's go with 15.

Mainly because alot of these are full length films.

And the last five will be flat Earth.

Holdon....

Golly, indoctrinating myself when I was searching for the exact opposite topic does sound intellectually honest.

No, what you are trying to do is indoctrinate yourself, by just looking for what you want and ignoring anything that challenges it.
Being intellectual honest would mean looking at the arguments from both sides.
Not just blindly accepting the crap promoted by your cult leader while ignoring any objection to it.

If you were honest, you'd admit there is a wee bit of bias.

In how you search and accept claims? Most certainly.
You will happily accept any crap that comes from your cult leaders that matches your fantasy, and happily reject anything which doesn't match.

But surely if you're being intellectually honest, by that idea, you'd agree to watch the an equal number of films of my choosing.

Equal number to what?
And why should it be an equal number rather than an equal time?

But more importantly, how is that being intellectual honest at all?
You are just spamming videos with no attempt to make any kind of coherent argument.
Compare that to you looking for a video on a particular topic and rejecting a bunch because they don't give you the conclusion you want.
Quite different.

No, what you are trying to do is indoctrinate yourself, by just looking for what you want and ignoring anything that challenges it.
Being intellectual honest would mean looking at the arguments from both sides.
Not just blindly accepting the crap promoted by your cult leader while ignoring any objection to it.

Uh huh.  Watch the videos I want you to watch, but I won't watch even one of your videos.

50 videos. But it was adjusted to 15, because a good portion of them were an hour and a half or more, making it an unequal watch.

Uh huh.  Watch the videos I want you to watch, but I won't watch even one of your videos.

Are you describing yourself?
Where you spam loads of crappy videos expecting people to watch them yet refuse to watch a single one yourself?

Again, if you are searching for something to try to understand, you shouldn't just cherry pick a single viewpoint. That is being intellectually dishonset.
If you are being intellectually honest, you should consider multiple viewpoints. Something you refuse to do.

No, I'm describing you.

You expect it to be "intellectually honest" to watch 50 videos that I don't want to watch, but when I ask you to watch not 50, not 45, not 30, but 15 videos, I daresay you haven't even watched one.

You are the most intellectually dishonest person on the plane(t).

Why do we need to watch a bunch of videos of Eric Dubay making pretty much the exact same wrong arguments that you're making?  Maybe if you could provide a video that explains why gravity can't possibly be a component of buoyancy, that might be worth watching.  For a good laugh at least.

No, I'm describing you.

You expect it to be "intellectually honest" to watch 50 videos that I don't want to watch, but when I ask you to watch not 50, not 45, not 30, but 15 videos, I daresay you haven't even watched one.

You are the most intellectually dishonest person on the plane(t).

No, you aren't describing me at all.

I'm not expecting you to watch 50 videos.
I'm not telling you to watch them.
Instead, I am calling out your intellectual dishonesty of looking for a video on something, just to hear the FE explanation and ignore any explanation from the RE.
You only want to hear from your cult leaders and ignore anything that goes against your fantasy.