Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory

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JackBlack

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2024, 02:21:07 PM »
I don't see any evidence that these people are not pilots.
I don't see any evidence other than a claim that they are.

This isn't a case of anyone disagreeing with me being a liar.
It is a known FE liar, someone who is known to repeatedly lie.

But again, this is deflecting from the issue.
What motivation is there to pretend Earth is round such that so many systems operate based upon that?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2024, 02:41:20 PM »
I don't see any evidence that these people are not pilots.
I don't see any evidence other than a claim that they are.

This isn't a case of anyone disagreeing with me being a liar.
It is a known FE liar, someone who is known to repeatedly lie.

But again, this is deflecting from the issue.
What motivation is there to pretend Earth is round such that so many systems operate based upon that?

There is more than one person in those videos. I don't see any evidence that they are lying. You have provided none. Once you can provide evidence for your claims we can consider your opinion.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2024, 03:29:59 PM »
ok, so we've established there have to be 100's of thousands of people in the know. So a big global conspiracy keeping flat earth knowledge secret.
I still don't get the motivation.
Who benefits from everyone thinking the earth is round when it's not?

It's a planar conspiracy.

The multi billion dollar "space" industry.
Two things. One, we already established that multibillion space money is peanuts compared to the multi trillion dollar budget of USA.
Two, what about North Korea? Why are they hiding the fact that earth is round? Wouldn't North Korea have all the more reason to reveal to the world that the earth is flat and that NASA and other space agencies are just a giant hoax? And we already established that they know the real shape of the earth. They have missiles capable of reaching atleast half the earth. That is not possible unless you design it specifically with the correct model of the earth.

North Korea:

North Korean rocket stage apparently explodes during launch

North Korea's spy satellite crashes into sea

North Korea satellite launch fails

North Korea rocket launch ends in failure

etc, etc

Sure, they're doing a great job. 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2024, 03:34:40 PM »
Tom, you're deflecting.
Space Cowgirl is so much more articulate. (If I could I'd ask Steve Miller to write her a song.)
It's a simple question.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2024, 06:12:09 PM »
Bet you weren't ready for that.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JackBlack

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2024, 06:53:17 PM »
Once you can provide evidence for your claims we can consider your opinion.
How about you provide evidence for yours?
Where is the evidence they are a pilot?
They don't even identify who they are, just vague claims.

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EarthIsRotund

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2024, 08:01:35 PM »
I don't see any evidence that these people are not pilots.
I don't see any evidence other than a claim that they are.

This isn't a case of anyone disagreeing with me being a liar.
It is a known FE liar, someone who is known to repeatedly lie.

But again, this is deflecting from the issue.
What motivation is there to pretend Earth is round such that so many systems operate based upon that?

There is more than one person in those videos. I don't see any evidence that they are lying. You have provided none. Once you can provide evidence for your claims we can consider your opinion.

You means the clearly faked CGI videos about the flat earth? Or where the "pilot" completely ignores high school physics? Or where he posts flat earth memes?
Sure, yeah, that is evidence alright. Let's say that, hypothetically, for the purpose of this thread, that the earth is flat. So that we can finally return to OP's topic. What purpose would NASA or whatever have to start the conspiracy? And did you even read the wiki article I've sent?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Nuclear_weapons
I love Mairimashita Iruma Kun

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EarthIsRotund

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2024, 08:03:13 PM »
ok, so we've established there have to be 100's of thousands of people in the know. So a big global conspiracy keeping flat earth knowledge secret.
I still don't get the motivation.
Who benefits from everyone thinking the earth is round when it's not?

It's a planar conspiracy.

The multi billion dollar "space" industry.
Two things. One, we already established that multibillion space money is peanuts compared to the multi trillion dollar budget of USA.
Two, what about North Korea? Why are they hiding the fact that earth is round? Wouldn't North Korea have all the more reason to reveal to the world that the earth is flat and that NASA and other space agencies are just a giant hoax? And we already established that they know the real shape of the earth. They have missiles capable of reaching atleast half the earth. That is not possible unless you design it specifically with the correct model of the earth.

North Korea:

North Korean rocket stage apparently explodes during launch

North Korea's spy satellite crashes into sea

North Korea satellite launch fails

North Korea rocket launch ends in failure

etc, etc

Sure, they're doing a great job.


Tell that to US Pacific Command.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Nuclear_weapons

Quote
On July 4, 2017, North Korea launched Hwasong-14 from Banghyon airfield, near Kusong, in a lofted trajectory it claims lasted 39 minutes for 930 km (578 mi), landing in the waters of the Japanese exclusive economic zone. US Pacific Command said the missile was aloft for 37 minutes, meaning that in a standard trajectory it could have reached all of Alaska, a distance of 6,690 km (4,160 mi).
I love Mairimashita Iruma Kun

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2024, 09:02:14 PM »
Bet you weren't ready for that.
Ya, ya, ya, yassh
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2024, 09:14:29 PM »
Tom, your trying to misconstrue my point. I am actually making the point that pilots would definitely know and have evidence that the earth is flat. As would sailors, navigators in general would know for sure the earth is flat because they would travel in straight lines
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2024, 05:54:39 AM »
And my point is simply that you cannot make those claims that are based on your own assumption. There are plenty of interviews with merchant marines, military sailors, and shipping industry experts on Mark Sargent's channel and a few similar channels from the wider Flat Earth movement, which detail that the reality is different than what you assume, and I am happy to spam those out for you.

When you make a claim that is based on your opinion I am just going to dismiss you, since you have done nothing to show your assumption to be accurate and have provided no specific evidence except for common dogma and media hype.

This Flat Earth subject is basically an ongoing television series and you are asking me plot questions while refusing to take the time to catch up yourself by watching the FE channels, or reading the tfes.org wiki, or any of the other things you should logically be doing if you were interested in FE.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 06:10:00 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2024, 06:24:25 AM »
Tom, so I take from your non response that you cannot articulate a motivation for the RE conspiracy. Or you have no idea you just know there is one? Is that what you're saying?
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2024, 06:40:52 AM »
ok, so we've established there have to be 100's of thousands of people in the know. So a big global conspiracy keeping flat earth knowledge secret.
I still don't get the motivation.
Who benefits from everyone thinking the earth is round when it's not?

It's a planar conspiracy.

The multi billion dollar "space" industry.
Two things. One, we already established that multibillion space money is peanuts compared to the multi trillion dollar budget of USA.
Two, what about North Korea? Why are they hiding the fact that earth is round? Wouldn't North Korea have all the more reason to reveal to the world that the earth is flat and that NASA and other space agencies are just a giant hoax? And we already established that they know the real shape of the earth. They have missiles capable of reaching atleast half the earth. That is not possible unless you design it specifically with the correct model of the earth.

North Korea:

North Korean rocket stage apparently explodes during launch

North Korea's spy satellite crashes into sea

North Korea satellite launch fails

North Korea rocket launch ends in failure

etc, etc

Sure, they're doing a great job.


Tell that to US Pacific Command.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Nuclear_weapons

Quote
On July 4, 2017, North Korea launched Hwasong-14 from Banghyon airfield, near Kusong, in a lofted trajectory it claims lasted 39 minutes for 930 km (578 mi), landing in the waters of the Japanese exclusive economic zone. US Pacific Command said the missile was aloft for 37 minutes, meaning that in a standard trajectory it could have reached all of Alaska, a distance of 6,690 km (4,160 mi).

You tell them, wikipediaboy.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2024, 01:01:55 PM »
And my point is simply that you cannot make those claims that are based on your own assumption. There are plenty of interviews with merchant marines, military sailors, and shipping industry experts on Mark Sargent's channel and a few similar channels from the wider Flat Earth movement, which detail that the reality is different than what you assume, and I am happy to spam those out for you.

When you make a claim that is based on your opinion I am just going to dismiss you, since you have done nothing to show your assumption to be accurate and have provided no specific evidence except for common dogma and media hype.

This Flat Earth subject is basically an ongoing television series and you are asking me plot questions while refusing to take the time to catch up yourself by watching the FE channels, or reading the tfes.org wiki, or any of the other things you should logically be doing if you were interested in FE.

The flat earth as an ongoing television series is like watching bold and the beautiful after a five year gap, and you can pick up what's happening in a few minutes, which is more of the same.

Now, we all know you are pushing the flat earth narrative, but you have to remember if you post a series of videos, some of us may take the time to actually watch them.

The first video with Thomas. Thomas is a man who has had an existential crisis and is gripping on to his bible for all of life's answers, despite a lifetime of airforce experience behind him. He says it himself. He says flat earth is about the spiritual side of life. So, automatically, anything he says about the physical shape of the Earth, is second to his spiritual experience.

Next up is the grounded Dutch pilot. Now she needed to be grounded, because you do not want a person that crazy pilotting a plane. She has no comprehension of the physics associated with Earth being a sphere. Her knowledge of earth gravity and how that affects levels and gyroscopes, is non-existent. Watching the videos with her, she is very photogenic and attractive looking, but there is nothing going on upstairs. She has been possessed by flat earth dogma. Three of the videos you posted, are devoted to her.

Next is the pilot who is mystified with being able to see a glimpse of sunlight in the East a couple of hours after the sun setting behind him in the West and travelling at cruising altitude and speed in an Easterly direction. No information is given on which part of the world he is flying East or his altitude, but it doesn't take an Einstein to establish he had nothing to be mystified about.

And who can forget the air force pilot who thinks she shouldn't have been able to see that mountain range from 28000 feet? She's flying at an altitude of 27 kilometres enabling her to see 588 kilometres to sea level horizon, and she's bamboozled she can see the top of a mountain range a bit further away?

Tom, each of these pilots in these videos are crackpots in their own rights. These videos do not add to your argument of a global conspiracy by the government to hide the true shape of the Earth.

Keep in mind, if you put a pretty face in front of Mark Sargent, he loses all objectivity and starts thinking with his other head, if you know what I mean? Sargent is a big believer in opposites attract, and highly attractive women being attracted to highly unattractive men such as himself. He is into fantasy as we all know.

The motivation of each of these crackpot pilots can be reasonably established. The hot and grounded Dutch pilot is just looking to be schooled by an attractive physics professor. Thomas is motivated by the bible. The others are motivated by a lack of understanding of mathematics and earth curvature and how far they should be able to see at great heights. They should all be grounded. None of them are necessarily lying or not pilots, just crackpots.

Tom, aren't you making an assumption and a claim, that pilots, because they go to high altitudes and use gyroscopes, are experts on the overall shape of the Earth? Why should their expertise extend beyond what they are trained and paid to do - fly planes?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 04:26:32 PM by Smoke Machine »

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JackBlack

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2024, 01:55:42 PM »
And my point is simply that you cannot make those claims
It was YOUR claim that they are pilots.
I am rejecting that claim.

There are plenty of interviews
And how many of these openly tell you who they are, rather than giving the vaguest details?

since you have done nothing to show your assumption to be accurate and have provided no specific evidence except for common dogma and media hype.
That sure sounds like you.

Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2024, 02:13:39 PM »
And my point is simply that you cannot make those claims
It was YOUR claim that they are pilots.
I am rejecting that claim.

There are plenty of interviews
And how many of these openly tell you who they are, rather than giving the vaguest details?

since you have done nothing to show your assumption to be accurate and have provided no specific evidence except for common dogma and media hype.
That sure sounds like you.

What makes you think a pilot can't develop a mental illness or just because they can fly a plane, are not stupid in areas of science? Flat earthers can drive cars, so why not pilot planes? They would be rare though.

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2024, 06:36:41 PM »
Tom, I'm not disagreeing. Who would know better than pilots that the earth is really flat.
And some have come forward, supporting this.
So why keep it secret?
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2024, 06:49:37 PM »
I'd like to know what airlines these pilots that think the Earth is flat work for, so I know not to get on one of their planes.

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2024, 08:24:25 PM »
Verse]
Feed the babies
Who don't have enough to eat
Shoe the children
With no shoes on their feet
House the people
Livin' in the street
Oh, oh, there's a solution
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2024, 03:06:50 PM »
If there are pilots who become "crazy" people who think that the earth is flat, then it nullifies the premise given that all pilots know that the earth is a globe.

The claim is clearly debunked there.

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2024, 07:37:09 PM »
If there are pilots who become "crazy" people who think that the earth is flat, then it nullifies the premise given that all pilots know that the earth is a globe.

The claim is clearly debunked there.
What claim is that?
What stated was actually that pilots would know the world is flat.
I was hoping you could give me insight into why the cover up?
But I can see that's not going to happen.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2024, 09:53:27 PM »
If there are pilots who become "crazy" people who think that the earth is flat, then it nullifies the premise given that all pilots know that the earth is a globe.

The claim is clearly debunked there.

Who did claim all pilots know the Earth is a globe? Why should they?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2024, 04:19:00 AM »
"All" pilots are regularly cited. See below:

But let's look at the pilots who all definitely would have to know about a flat earth.

It's basically a long running meme on this forum for people to come here and shout about all the pilots, ship navigators, physicists, bridge engineers, etc., often citing big numbers and even millions of people, who would need to be in on the conspiracy.

Seventeen years of Flat Earth investigation on this forum have looked a lot of those assumptions. See this post in response to the claim that the pylons of the Humber Bridge deviate due to the curvature of the earth, for instance. The Humber Bridge authority was emailed to get an answer on that:

Unfortunately not.  I once tried to champion this cause, and in the interests of getting a definitive answer, I emailed the Humber Bridge Authority to ask whether the figure was measured or purely theoretical.  Here's the reply:

Quote
Thank you for your recent email.
 
The two towers are build vertical to a tangent to the earth, i.e. radial to the centre of the earth, thus, theoretically, the shape between the two towers is an inverted trapesium rather than a rectangle with the length between the bottom of the towers being 36mm less than the length at the top of the towers.
 
The gap at the base is, of course, the one that was actually "measured" with the apparent increase being a result of building the towers "vertically".
 
Regards
 
Peter Hill
General Manager & Bridgemaster

So there you have it, straight from the horse's bridgemaster's mouth.  I'm man enough to admit I backed a wrong 'un, so can we let this one go now?

Suddenly your assumption is put into question, and is insufficient. Even claiming that this person is a liar isn't enough to save your assumption, since you have no real and specific data in favor of it except for the tribal knowledge and generalized claims that the pylons deviate.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2024, 04:30:38 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2024, 05:49:00 AM »
I don't care about evidence one way or another. We could debate the evidence from know until for ever.
You just refuse to answer the simplest of questions.
Why is the truth being  suppressed?
Someone must benefit from it, who?

Tom, put your attack dog away for two minutes and see if you can articulate the why or the who behind this conspiracy.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2024, 04:14:33 PM »
https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Motive+of+the+Conspiracy

Motive of the Conspiracy

The motive for 'The Conspiracy' is unknown (unlike the existence of 'The Conspiracy', no specific motive necessarily follows from the FET) and as such it is open to speculation. However, financial profit is the most commonly assumed motive.

'Profit'

Usually considered to be the most likely motive, this suggests that NASA is primarily an embezzlement front. The conspiracy spends millions of dollars in bribing astronauts, faking photographs, and other ways of faking space exploration, but NASA's budget is in the billions, so the conspirators still receive a large profit yearly.

'Not hiding anything at all'

It is also possible that NASA does not actually know that the earth is flat and since its inception has simply been faking the concept of space travel, never bothering (or unable) to go any farther than the edge of the atmosphere. The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because the general public already believes that it is round.

NASA is mistaken about the earth's shape, just like many others are, and reflect that mistake when putting together its fake space missions.

'Military dominance'

The US Government and its European allies have a large interest in investing untold millions of dollars into hoaxing space travel because it gives a superior image to the rest of the world. Once a country has the technology to reach orbit it can also scare off aggressors and send ICBMs raining down on its enemies at the push of a button. Creating the illusion of space travel is critical to national security of a first-world nation, whether it is actually possible or not.

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2024, 04:46:29 PM »
Ok, that was not so difficult to explain. Got it , thanks for the answers.
I just want to understand. When I get a few minutes I'll look at your link. Cheers.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

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Cameron 1964

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Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2024, 05:34:38 PM »
Ok, that was not so difficult to explain. Got it , thanks for the answers.
I just want to understand. When I get a few minutes I'll look at your link. Cheers.
I don't share your beliefs, but I'm not going to denigrate you for yours.
Being trained as an engineer and having made things that have flown in space gives me a different perspective, perhaps.
I have my own skepticism about some modern science. So keep an open mind.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Re: Healthy Skeptical View of Science and Conspiracy theory
« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2024, 07:40:56 PM »
I don't see any evidence that these people are not pilots.
I don't see any evidence other than a claim that they are.

This isn't a case of anyone disagreeing with me being a liar.
It is a known FE liar, someone who is known to repeatedly lie.

But again, this is deflecting from the issue.
What motivation is there to pretend Earth is round such that so many systems operate based upon that?

There is more than one person in those videos. I don't see any evidence that they are lying. You have provided none. Once you can provide evidence for your claims we can consider your opinion.

Tom, I'm a pilot for Delta Airlines and I say it's round. My name is Adam. Prove that I'm not.

Wait you can't because there is so evidence to prove I am or I'm not. That is what we are trying to say.

Also linking wiki articles of the wiki that YOU created is disingenuous. Scientists don't cite themselves as evidence for their thesis they quote other people. Link the original article or don't link anything all. No one wants to swim thru the loose collection on conflicting ideas presented in your wiki.